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Old 05-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #1
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Tankless Water Heater

Just took delivery of a new 31FS. It has the tankless water heater. It works great when using the sink faucets, but, not so well with the shower. It continually cycles from hot to cold every 20 seconds.

In the manual, it states that this will happen when it is not getting enough flow, and the high heat limit is tripped. I'm not sure how to get more flow. I open the hot water valve completely without any cold and it still cycles.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks in advance,
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
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Welcome to the JOF bgermane! We are considering an upgrade to (??), but will watch this thread with interest
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:26 PM   #3
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I don't have any experiance with it, but do you have a water pressure regulator or anything else (water filter, etc) that would restrict the flow of water going into the water heater? Hope you can solve the problem.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:10 AM   #4
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Thinking the same

I have always used a simple pressure regulator. I have noticed that there are also regulators marketed as "high flow". I am probably going to give one of those a try. And yes, there is the integral water filter system. The water flow in the shower is pretty poor.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:39 PM   #5
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Found the problem... Now what?

After sitting in the service center for nearly two weeks, there's still no resolution. Brought the unit home today to work on it myself.

I spoke to the maufacturer of the water heater. He stated that the heater needs a minimum of 1.4 to 1.5 gpm flowing through it so that it won't cycle. I took measurements at both faucets and the shower. They all measured nearly identical - .85 to .90 gpm. Seems to me that there's a bigger problem here. I would be curious if anyone else out there has ever taken flow readings in their unit. Unless, there is some sort of blockage, this is a design flaw, and obviously, I'm really disappointed.

I'm rather suprised that this hasn't come up already. The service center did tell me that this was the first one that they had worked on. I plan on speaking to Jayco tomorrow.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:33 AM   #6
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I am wondering if your water pump is performing on spec. or if there is an issue with the on-demand circuit. Jayco will most likely be able to help you trouble shoot it. They have been great when I have called. Our 31FS has the standard water heater, but the tech at Jayco told me a trick to get it to heat faster and perform better under higher demand. He said that when I need hot water fast and more, to simply use both electric and gas at the same time. It worked. But you must turn one off after your higher demand need is over. (noting this does not apply to you, but maybe to another reader).
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:34 AM   #7
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Did you remove the shower head to test the flow rate? Could the head be effecting the flow (i knw they are designed to be low flow)..
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:28 AM   #8
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So, the tests were conducted while connected to a water supply, and with the shower head removed. I am now using a high flow regulator, which didn't make any difference. The flow is slighlty improved, but nearly identical when using the pump. I'm suprised at how much the system reduces the overall gpm. The hose bib at my house provided over 7 gpm, but inside the coach, I get 0.85 gpm.

Maybe this is a typical flow rate. Not sure. I never encountered this in my previous rv. The shower worked very well.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #9
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OK, I am going to ask a dumb question. What settings are your valves on inside the garage compartment? Are you set to "City Fixtures" when connected to your water supply? Do you have a means to test pressure at the outlets (sink/shower)? Is there a difference in performance running on the 12v water pump (with manifold valves set to "normal")? The onboard water pump should put up 45 pounds per specs.

Could the factory have mis-connected the valve manifold that changes the water system functions?

There is also a possiblity you have a clogged line from the factory, reducing your flow.
Any visual signs of an occlusion at the hose connection? remove screen at hose connection and inspect.

Just throwing out ideas, you have probably done these things.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #10
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How about a valve before the HW heater? There are small black inline valves throughout your coach most likely. I have them throughout mine and they are not marked anywhere. Most are in plain sight but you might have some concealed somewhere?

Control panel argument is a good one too.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:28 PM   #11
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We have a similar problem with our Jayco 31SS tankless hot water heater. Even on "low" the water in the shower is absolutely scalding with the hot water turned on all the way. It does not cycle on and off, but you cannot get enough flow to be able to use the shower without getting burned. If you turn on enough cold water to make yourself comfortable, the water heater will cycle. The only option that seems to work is to turn on the kitchen sink full blast on hot while you shower, and even then some cold water is required in the shower. We have tried all the shower adjustments and have tried to change our hoses and connectors to maximize flow. Any ideas?
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #12
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The problem seems to be a combination of flow-rate and incoming water temp. According to Girard, the units were designed for a minimum flow of 1.25 gpm in order to prevent the cycling. My unit flows at approximately 0.8 gpm with the shower head removed.

Here in southern California, my domestic water temp where I live, is about 65-70 degrees. The Girard heaters raise the temp 45-50 degrees. I forget the exact temp I was told, but the high heat limit is set at something like 115 degrees. The combination of low flow rate, and "higher" incoming water temp, lead to the heater tripping on a high heat limit.

I just got back from a trip to Yellowstone. Incoming water temp was in the 50 degree range. The water heater performed fine. The flow rate at the head is poor, but the heater still performed correctly. I'm working with Jayco, and my local dealer to try to resolve this. Jayco believes that there may be a faulty sensor in the heater. We'll see.
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Old 10-28-2014, 02:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgermane View Post
Just took delivery of a new 31FS. It has the tankless water heater. It works great when using the sink faucets, but, not so well with the shower. It continually cycles from hot to cold every 20 seconds.

In the manual, it states that this will happen when it is not getting enough flow, and the high heat limit is tripped. I'm not sure how to get more flow. I open the hot water valve completely without any cold and it still cycles.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks in advance,
We had same problem and had it in the shop 3 times. It took more than a year to find out that you adjust the temp on unit (our control is in the bathroom) and then USE ONLY THE HOT WATER faucet in the shower. We took turns standing outside the shower adjusting the gage for the most comfortable temp for our spouse the first time. DO NOT TURN ON THE COLD WATER or it makes the heater turn off and on and you get the hot then cold water cycling because of the back flow. It cycled a little bit when we put the shower on water saver while washing. It worked best just letting it flow. It was rather cold outside and only got warm, not hot. It gets hot if the outside temp is not too cold. We were dry camping.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheiladitexas View Post
We had same problem and had it in the shop 3 times. It took more than a year to find out that you adjust the temp on unit (our control is in the bathroom) and then USE ONLY THE HOT WATER faucet in the shower. We took turns standing outside the shower adjusting the gage for the most comfortable temp for our spouse the first time. DO NOT TURN ON THE COLD WATER or it makes the heater turn off and on and you get the hot then cold water cycling because of the back flow. It cycled a little bit when we put the shower on water saver while washing. It worked best just letting it flow. It was rather cold outside and only got warm, not hot. It gets hot if the outside temp is not too cold. We were dry camping.
What about installing a check valve? One could be installed on the hot output of the heater.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:40 PM   #15
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How about this... Worked fine but had sporadic shots of cold water then back to hot. Certainly motives you to be done.... Anyone had this problem?
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:11 PM   #16
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Hmm, on the tankless water heaters we have in our house we were told to set the units temperature to what was comfortable for us with the valve on full hot. I think ours is set to 105 degrees. Turning the flow down on the faucet does not seem to cause any kind of cycling. Sheiladitexas is probably right on how to use it.
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:22 PM   #17
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I also agree with not adding cold. If you add cold at the faucet, it doesn't effect what is happening at the WH.
If you have 40# of pressure and you have nothing but the hot faucet on, you will have 40# of hot flow. Right? So if you have the hot faucet on and then add cold, you still have 40#psi flow. The WH doesn't know you have added cold so it continues to heat until it maxes and shuts down.
Using hot faucet only, full flow will give you the mildest of hot water. Moderating the flow will increase the temp by restricting the flow through the WH.
Dial in the bathroom is key. Never had ours hotter than 12 o'clock-1 o'clock. Showers..... we run the water continuously except when dry camping. Even when we stop the flow during the Navy showers, the hot line is still full of hot water so we haven't noticed any temp difference with the cycling.
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:15 PM   #18
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We have the tankless water heater in 2014 Melbourne 29D and water temp in shower cycles from hot to cold and back as OP describes. This is true no matter whether on City Water or the onboard fresh water tank. Playing with the temp knob does have some effect on this but DOES NOT FIX IT. As of October 2014, Jayco has no answer for this. Is hard to believe that it could be an open issue for YEARS.
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:42 AM   #19
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http://greenrvproducts.com/operating...2/gswh-1m-new/
Hi chasfenwick. If you haven't done a search on the forums for the tankless water heater, you might do so. There have been quite a few threads with a lot of conversation.
The link above is the manufacturers website complete with instruction video and contact information. Reports from several forums members is very positive when they have called their service dept. From a piece/part that has malfunctioned (Girard has been very responsive in sending replacement parts) to walking people through how to find the elusive "reset" button.
I hope this helps. Our success with the system has been unwavering and I believe it can be for all. It's different and adjusting/setting for temp has a learning curve.
If you don't find your answers in the threads and still have questions feel free to pm me.
Think warm,
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:58 PM   #20
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Our problem was with the original Girard units that did not have the adjustable dial. It had a high/low setting. Unfortunately, that did not offer the user enough adjustment to compensate for all the variable conditions, i.e., flow and incoming water temp. Since my original post, I have switched to the newer model with the dial. I have not had an instance when I could not achieve a satisfactory setting.

As others have posted, set the temp with the hot valve completely open and the cold closed. If the temp is comfortable, then there is no reason the unit should limit or cycle. If it does, there may be a problem with the unit that Girard can help resolve. I would highly recommend dealing with Girard directly. Jayco was of very little assistance throughout my ordeal. Girard, on the other hand, was fantastic.

The only Problem that I still encounter results from a sudden loss in pressure which creates a sudden drop in flow. That will cause the unit to limit, but has only happened to us at one campground.
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