Tankless water heater issues

[Wyn]

I want to install an Atwood or Suburban water heater in my 2015 29MV to replace the Gerard. For those that have made the swap, when I looked at the available space for the conventional water heater, I discovered a heat duct ran through the space, I measured for the conventional water heater, the heating duct reduced the available depth to around 15" which is not enough for either of the water heaters. Did you relocate the heat duct, and if so, how did you do it? Also, the opening in the exterior wall of my motorhome is 12 1/2" X 12 1/2" which is also a bit small, did you enlarge the exterior wall opening, or will the Atwood or Suburban "squeeze" into the existing opening? A final question, where did you tie into the 120V power?

[Robbbyr]

I have a Seneca that I converted so it isn't apples to apples. I had no obstructions behind my original Girard.

I installed a 10-gallon Atwood XT so I definitely had to enlarge the opening. When I checked, the only heater that would fit in the original Girard opening was a 6-gallon Suburban. But I wanted more capacity so I had to enlarge the opening. Boy was it was tough taking a reciprocating saw to my pretty rig! But I love the final outcome. No muss, no fuss, and we always have plenty of hot water. And we can throttle the shower to save water without getting scalded or frozen. And I mostly use campground electricity to heat my water, not my propane. I also just finished an installation of a hot water recirculation system. So when I hit a button, a timed solenoid bypasses water back to the freshwater tank (so I don't waste it down the drain) and I have hot water in my kitchen and shower immediately instead of waiting. Saves water when we are dry camping.

I was able to run a new 120-volt circuit right from my electrical panel to the heater. Had an open spot in my panel and put in a new breaker from Home Depot. And it was only about a 6 foot wiring run on the same side of the coach behind my bedroom lower drawers. Very easy. But again, yours may be radically different. What also made the 120-volt wiring easier is that my Atwood uses a relay to turn on the electric heating element. So the circuit to the heater is "hot" all the time when my breaker is on. The inside control switch for "electric" energizes a relay that turns on the electric element. So no 120-volt wiring was necessary to the coach interior for the heater. Don't know if the Suburbans work that way now or not.

I have heard many good things about the Truma unit, not sure whether it is the same cutout dimensions or not. Still can't heat water with electricity though.

[hoppers4]

Originally Posted by Wyn

I want to install an Atwood or Suburban water heater in my 2015 29MV to replace the Gerard. For those that have made the swap, when I looked at the available space for the conventional water heater, I discovered a heat duct ran through the space, I measured for the conventional water heater, the heating duct reduced the available depth to around 15" which is not enough for either of the water heaters. Did you relocate the heat duct, and if so, how did you do it? Also, the opening in the exterior wall of my motorhome is 12 1/2" X 12 1/2" which is also a bit small, did you enlarge the exterior wall opening, or will the Atwood or Suburban "squeeze" into the existing opening? A final question, where did you tie into the 120V power?

I installed the Suburban because it fit the space. Didn't have to modify the opening or relocate the duct. It's my understanding that the Atwood requires some additional mods.

If you open the lower fridge vent you'll see a wire bundle in there. You'll have to get a signal tracer to determine what's what. Turn your breakers off and then turn them on 1 by 1 to figure out which one you want. Some folks have added an additional breaker and run a separate wire from the converter.

I used the line coming FROM the inverter. If you're plugged into shore power, the inverter doesn't supply the power but is a direct feed through. Just be aware that if you use that line, shut off the water heater before you unplug or you'll get an overload alarm on the inverter as it can't handle the load of the water heater.

[NC Roamer]

Originally Posted by Wyn

I want to install an Atwood or Suburban water heater in my 2015 29MV to replace the Gerard. For those that have made the swap, when I looked at the available space for the conventional water heater, I discovered a heat duct ran through the space, I measured for the conventional water heater, the heating duct reduced the available depth to around 15" which is not enough for either of the water heaters. Did you relocate the heat duct, and if so, how did you do it? Also, the opening in the exterior wall of my motorhome is 12 1/2" X 12 1/2" which is also a bit small, did you enlarge the exterior wall opening, or will the Atwood or Suburban "squeeze" into the existing opening? A final question, where did you tie into the 120V power?

The Suburban 6-gallon tank model fit into the old Girard space in our Greyhawk without any modifications. Our dealer did the swap as a warranty item because they knew of the irritation we'd had with the Girard. They ran a 120v line from the breaker box on the front panel of the master bed. There was room in the top of the panel to add a new breaker, although I think they told me they had to use a smaller breaker. They swapped it about 18 months ago and we've always had hot water when we wanted it.

[Wyn]

NC Roamer, I also would prefer to run a dedicated line to the water heater. Routing the line under the cabinets looks doable, but how did the dealer route the line across the floor to the electrical panel?

[Wyn]

hoppers4, Thanks for the info, according to the dimensions listed for the 6 gal Suburban, it is too big to fit the space, but since you got it to fit, I should be able to also! I would prefer to run power directly to the breaker box, but routing the wire to the opposite side of the RV looks like a huge challenge. Is the inverter on its own circuit? I don't use the inverter, so tying into that line might be the best option for me too.

[hoppers4]

Originally Posted by Wyn

Is the inverter on its own circuit? I don't use the inverter, so tying into that line might be the best option for me too.

The output of the inverter is indeed it's own circuit. The only place it goes in my rig is the TV outlet over the bunk. It's just a matter of determining which wire it is in the bundle. You also have to remember to turn off the water heater before unplugging from shore power. If you don't remember to turn it off, you'll get an overload alarm from the inverter and then it's just a matter of turning off the inverter to reset it.

[blujay40]

We had the Girard installed when we ordered our Eagle TT and were fully aware of what to expect in regards to any "gotchas" when we did.

I think the biggest issue most have with tankless water heaters in RV's is that many believe they are a "step up" rather than an "alternative", and that depending on how you camp, a tankless water heater may or may not work for you. Whether that is the fault of the salesmen hyping them because the unit they are trying to sell you has one already, Jayco not optimizing the plumbing to allow the Girard to operate at it's best, getting a problem prone unit, which also happens with a tanked water heater, or just unreasonable expectations by those purchasing them, I can't say.

After a lot of research on them, considering our expected uses of the new TT and with our Eagle being almost 40' in length, we knew that we would always be "hooked up" and really had no desires to "boondock". Also knowing our Eagle came with 2 - 30# propane tanks, we shouldn't have any issues with running out before we could refill and after the first year, I actually think we use less propane with the Girard because we always had to run our 6 gallon Attwood with both propane and electric turned on all the time and we still ran out of hot water on occasion.

One of the first things we did when we took delivery was to remove all water restrictors from the faucets and shower and replaced the OEM shower head with an Oxygenics, also removing the push button shutoff.

Another thing we do if we are at sites that have insufficient water pressure (lower than about 40#) or flow rates (less than 1 gal/min) is to fill the fresh water tank with water and use the pump. Either way, we set the Girard at 124 degrees (hottest setting), and can turn the cold on as needed to adjust the temp and take as many or as long of showers as we desire, just like at home. Just don't expect to conserve water or take "navy" showers or you will not enjoy the result.

With that said, should the Girard ever crap out, a Truma Aqua Go Comfort will be in our future. It addresses at least a couple of the shortcomings of the Girard in that it's more a "hybrid" water heater than a true tankless since it has a "mixing" tank (~1gal) and removes the "cold blast" should you turn the hot off and on again, has built in "electric" freeze protection, has a great solution for descaling by inserting a "pill" into it and letting it do it's thing, can operate at much lower flow rates (as low as .25 gal/min) and has a variable burner as well.

For our needs, tanked water heaters are a thing of the past.

[Crossingover]

Originally Posted by blujay40

For our needs, tanked water heaters are a thing of the past.

Agree completely. No issues at all with our Girard once we learned how to properly operate it.

[pconroy]

Pretty much 100% agree. The Oxygenics is awesome, we too tend towards hookups. Learning to dial it in took some work. If the Girard dies, we'll probably do the Truma too.

[Dlla88]

Does the Oxygenics help with the water flow to keep the water heater on?

Sometimes we have to turn the sink on, while showering, to keep the hot water running.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Dlla88

Does the Oxygenics help with the water flow to keep the water heater on?

Sometimes we have to turn the sink on, while showering, to keep the hot water running.

No, not in our Greyhawk with a Gen II Girard. The heater fires up as soon as any hot tap is opened.

Having to *increase* flow doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unless the flow, with one spigot, is so low that the heater shuts itself off as a protection mechanism.



The Oxygenics just takes the pitiful stream and makes a decent shower out of it.

[Jan]

Our 2014 grey hawk has no temp. settings in the shower nor on the shower head. Our showers tend to cycle from cold to scalding. Tricky getting a shower. Haven't found any ,temp setting on the heater itself either. What's causing this? Is it all from water pressure at campgrounds? Seems to happen no matter where we camp though

[pconroy]

Sounds like you have a Gen 1. From their manual:

------------------------------------
A tankless water heater heats water while it is being used i.e., on demand. The output temperature of the water depends on the temperature of the inlet water AND the amount of hot water that is drawn.

If the inlet water temperature is over 65ºF the model GSWH-1 will generate water in the range of 105°F to 120°F (on Low flame) depending on the water low selected by the user.

To operate, first set the Power Switch to the ON position and set the Mode Switch to AUTO, then FULLY open the HOT Water Faucet by turning the faucet knob counter clockwise; the water will begin to heat up once the water in the piping has been purged.

DO NOT TURN ON THE COLD WATER.

Then DECREASE the flow of the water (turn the faucet knob clockwise) until you achieve the desired temperature.

The hot water valve behaves very much like a typical mixing valve: it INCREASES the temperature when the water flow is REDUCED.

To DECREASE THE WATER TEMPERATURE (i.e., make the water cooler), increase the flow of the water by turning the faucet knob counter clockwise thereby increasing the flow.

DO NOT USE COLD WATER TO ADJUST THE TEMPERATURE.
------------------------------------

The Gen 1 was pretty rough. Gen 2 the ability to control the temps - a little bit. Gen 3 got better.

A *good* pressure regulator might help.

One of the things we do -- even on our Gen 2 -- is fill the tank at Campgrounds and then turn on the pump to shower from the tank.

[Jan]

Wierd way to function but I'll try it. Thanks!

[JOEA]

Just returned from a short trip. The tankless will not turn on in the bathroom sink. The Kitchen is hit or miss and the shower gives about 30 seconds of hot water then shuts down for about 30 seconds. On my warranty list to replace.

[WaltW]

Two of the above posters have 2017 coaches so unless Jayco is retrofitting Gen I HW heaters into newer models, the problem has to be different. No I don't have an answer as I replaced with a tank type heater and have no more HW problems.

I would like to ask y'all to add Jayco coach info to your signature line as it would help provide more meaningful responses.

[Steve Pease]

The Jayco manual and the manufacturer's manual (and online) proudly say the tankless water is not susceptible to freezing because they hold so little water at any one time (including while heating water too). Totally misleading. I paid $1200+ to replace my barely used heater this Spring. No warranty coverage, no reply from Camping World, Jayco, or the manufacturer (I'll have to go look and see who made it). Blow it out, then do RV antifreeze - unless your water pump isn't sucking like mine....

Steve Pease 2016 Precept Colorado

[rgolding]

On our 37FS, the water heater is in the driver's side rear corner and close to the bed. I have been awakened to it coming on and realized it was cycling to protect itself since the temperature was below 32 degrees. Got down to about 27 degrees that morning. no damage to tankless heater or system.

[Baldfacemt]

WE have the digital control set at 120 in our 2017 29 mv. We have only used it with hook ups for our first season but have had no problems. We turn on the hot water and then add cold to keep it from getting too hot. It does take a bit to warm up but is reliable after that...We are happy with it for our needs..