Use of Bio Diesel

[Sam]

On a recent trip from CO into AZ this past Dec and Jan we noticed bio diesel only being pumped in some of the truck stops in AZ, namely Loves truck stops. On the pump was a label that stated the fuel contained five to 20 per cent bio fuel.

Have some of you noticed this to be a trend? Also, is it OK to use bio diesel in our Senecas (2014)? I did call a Freightliner center in NM and a service tech. said it is OK, however I would need to change fuel filters more often. He really did not seem to be sure of his answer. I looked in the service manual that came with my rig but still unsure if it is OK. I am going to make more inquires but have not yet.

Any thoughts?
Thanks, Sam

[Robbbyr]

I too noticed Bio blends being prevalent when we went West last summer. This caused me to inquire similarly once we got home at the local Cummins shop. I asked about both the chassis engine and the Onan generator. My answer was the same, would likely need to change the fuel filters more frequently but not concerned otherwise. They advised I should check for water in the bowl of the engine's primary filter each driving day and drain it if needed.

Cummins recommends oil and oil filter changes for the chassis engine every 15,000 miles, and changing the primary and secondary fuel filters at the same time. I have decided to halve that interval, I will change stuff at 7,500 miles. Likewise the Onan fuel filter is changed at 500 operating hours, I am also going to halve that. Unfortunately there is not a bowl to view for collected water on the generator that might give you some warning. I asked about adding a pre-filter, Cummins did tell me a water separating filter in the fuel suction line might create too much resistance since the generator feed line is quite small. They did not say it would not work, they were just worried about adding any restriction.

[Flyrotor]

I lived in Texas for two years, most the stations are using a blend of bio diesel, I dropped 4-5 mpg and the injectors started acting up, I looked and found a few stations that did not use bio blended diesel and it worked better, I moved to Montana last year, nobody blends bio in the fuel up here, it would turn to lard in the cold temps, my truck runs so much better, fuel mpg has returned to 17 mpg.

My advice, avoid the bio diesel blend like the plague

[Sam]

Thanks for the info from both of you. I plan on using bio free diesel as much as possible. Thankfully in Southern CO all that is sold in pure diesel, on the road we will see.

[Seann45]

Dr. Rudolf Diesel designed the motor to run on almost anything (except gas). You will not get as good a mileage with B- anything. When you have a rig and use B- it is advisable to change the fuel filter after a few hundred miles as bio will strip the gunk off the fuel tank walls and lines and plug the filter... I have my own waste veggie oil processor and have run up to B-100.

[Bassdogs]

I have had it with forcing all these fuel mixtures on the general public that pretty much all result in less fuel economy and more frequent maintance. Am currently vacationing in Tx and after reading this thread, I started paying attention at the pump. Yup!! Filled up on Tue and all that was available was bio mix D. No choice that's all they had. Can anyone explain the benefit to those of us pulling campers to be stuck with what I consider an inferior fuel? Same thing with ethanol in the gas. Everything we eat that contains corn or corn extract is paying more because so much of the corn harvest is being distilled to make fuel. Pretty much all of this will go away as soon as the government ends the subsidies for these environmental experments. May finally be hope for ending them with a new sheriff in DC.

[Magnolia Tom]

Bio diesel does help older trucks. With the switch to ULSD, most older trucks aren't getting the needed lubricity. Bio blends help replenish the lubricants provided by sulfur. It will also quiet down the diesel chatter. Older diesels can run on pure bio diesel, heck some run on straight vegetable oil. In the summer, I used to run 50/50 bio/pump diesel in my 06 and man, that ran so smooth and quiet. My fuel economy did drop about 1.5 mpg.

Newer trucks are designed to run on a bio blend up to b20. Or, at least mine is. Yes, higher bio in the blend reduces mpg but with only 5% bio in the mix, I don't think mpg will drop that much. Just my .02


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[Bassdogs]

Why??? Mixing it into the fuel is a solution looking for a problem. The solution doesn't seem to help anything and the blending cost and reduced performance is a big negative. Stop subsidizing this failed social experiment [ethanol too] and it will go away over nite.

[norty1]

I would not be traveling much if I was not willing to use at least 5% bio. That's all that is available where I travel.

I always use Diesel Kleen silver at every fillup. So far no fuel problems.

[LabMan]

Have 62k on 2015 Duramax. Live in Illinois, Bio only thing available. Travel all over, mixing Bio with pure. First fuel filter changed at 35k miles. showed 37% left, just did prior to a long trip. Now filter showing 46% left. If I went by people on the Duramax forum, I would be changing filters every 10k max at $100+ a crack. I worked in a Oil refinery for 38 years prior to retiring. We blended gas and diesel for the majority of the Midwest. With the mandated specs on fuels today if you have a problem, it is almost always at the dealer level. Just buy from a quality brand , drive on and enjoy.

[Magnolia Tom]

I agree with you on the ethanol. We don't need it or the problems it causes to gas engines.
We disagree with the bio. It does help with lubricity. The effects of bio blends is not the same as ethanol blends in gasoline. Reduced fuel economy?...yes. Greatly reduced?...not really.

I look at it this way. The most it can be reduced is whatever the percentage of bio blended into the fuel IF you assume biodiesel gets 0 mpg. Therefore, b20 would be 20% less efficient, b5 would be 5% less efficient. The reality is that bio gets almost the same mpg as regular diesel.

Here is an interesting article by consumer reports.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...-oil/index.htm


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[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by norty1

I always use Diesel Kleen silver at every fillup. So far no fuel problems.

Same here with my 6.7. I like the cetane boost in it, which I think helps with the bio. Agree with everyone else, ethanol sucks for everything except the farmers.

[House of Harview]

2% biodiesel or B2 is the best possible fuel lubricity factor and proved better than any diesel fuel additive on the market according to the Spicer Test of several years ago. As I understand it, this test was performed in a controlled lab scenario via what is referred to as a scar test. A scar test is performed by taking a specific round metal bar and mounting it to a special lathe type machine followed by a specific pressure arm with a special machine bit at a specific pressure that is forced against the round metal bar spinning on the lathe. This set up is then bathed or specifically sprayed with the many fuel combinations such as straight diesel, 100% biodiesel or B100, other biodiesel to straight diesel percentage combinations, diesel fuel with the many different diesel fuel additives tested separately and many other fuel testing combinations too many to list. The result is derived from the measurement of wear scar produced by the testing process specified above.

After the completion of this test, it was determined that straight diesel with 2% or B2 biodiesel with no other additive had the least amount of wear over all combinations tested. The best result for straight diesel fuel and recommended diesel fuel additive combination was the Opti-Lube brand.

This topic can get rather complicated and I do know more about the Volkswagen TDI 2.0 liter common rail diesel engine as opposed to the other diesel fuel engines. VW restricts any percentage over 5% or B5 due to complicated factors of engine oil dilution mainly due to DPF regeneration to where higher concentration of fuel are sprayed into the cylinders to create the higher temperatures needed for ash removal during regeneration. This higher concentration of fuel spraying in the cylinders may promote engine oil dilution due to remnants of fuel passing by the piston rings into the crankcase. This has been proven via engine oil analysis being performed using higher than the 5% or B5 concentrations.

The reason for the reduced fuel mileage when biodiesel is used is due to the lower BTU number compared to straight diesel. However, such reduced fuel mileage seemed to only occur when these concentrations were north of 20% or B20. This is not scientifically confirmed or verified and is only pertinent to many of the pre-common rail 1.9 liter VW engines from 2006 model year and later. I have no idea if such is the case with the big three diesel engines offered in pick up trucks.

I could go on with other factors such as methyl esters in biodiesel which contributes to a residue or varnish left behind under high temperatures on injector nozzles, upper piston rings and internals of VNT turbochargers however, these factors are mostly long term and even gets more complicated due to the factors regarding biodiesel quality even beyond ASTM certification factors.

I hope this comment provides some pertinent understanding for those interested.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by House of Harview

2% biodiesel or B2 is the best possible fuel lubricity factor and proved better than any diesel fuel additive on the market according to the Spicer Test of several years ago. As I understand it, this test was performed in a controlled lab scenario via what is referred to as a scar test. A scar test is performed by taking a specific round metal bar and mounting it to a special lathe type machine followed by a specific pressure arm with a special machine bit at a specific pressure that is forced against the round metal bar spinning on the lathe. This set up is then bathed or specifically sprayed with the many fuel combinations such as straight diesel, 100% biodiesel or B100, other biodiesel to straight diesel percentage combinations, diesel fuel with the many different diesel fuel additives tested separately and many other fuel testing combinations too many to list. The result is derived from the measurement of wear scar produced by the testing process specified above.

After the completion of this test, it was determined that straight diesel with 2% or B2 biodiesel with no other additive had the least amount of wear over all combinations tested. The best result for straight diesel fuel and recommended diesel fuel additive combination was the Opti-Lube brand.

This topic can get rather complicated and I do know more about the Volkswagen TDI 2.0 liter common rail diesel engine as opposed to the other diesel fuel engines. VW restricts any percentage over 5% or B5 due to complicated factors of engine oil dilution mainly due to DPF regeneration to where higher concentration of fuel are sprayed into the cylinders to create the higher temperatures needed for ash removal during regeneration. This higher concentration of fuel spraying in the cylinders may promote engine oil dilution due to remnants of fuel passing by the piston rings into the crankcase. This has been proven via engine oil analysis being performed using higher than the 5% or B5 concentrations.

The reason for the reduced fuel mileage when biodiesel is used is due to the lower BTU number compared to straight diesel. However, such reduced fuel mileage seemed to only occur when these concentrations were north of 20% or B20. This is not scientifically confirmed or verified and is only pertinent to many of the pre-common rail 1.9 liter VW engines from 2006 model year and later. I have no idea if such is the case with the big three diesel engines offered in pick up trucks.

I could go on with other factors such as methyl esters in biodiesel which contributes to a residue or varnish left behind under high temperatures on injector nozzles, upper piston rings and internals of VNT turbochargers however, these factors are mostly long term and even gets more complicated due to the factors regarding biodiesel quality even beyond ASTM certification factors.

I hope this comment provides some pertinent understanding for those interested.

Way over my head, but doesn't answer the question of WHY!! What is the motivation to blend it in?? Who started it??