Where to purchase DEF

ohiocamp · 11-14-2016, 04:27 PM

I recently purchased a Seneca, and it DEF tank is going to need its first fill up, I wanted to see where most owners purchase there DEF and what brand they purchase.

Grumpy · 11-14-2016, 04:48 PM

Wally World has the best price on 2 1/2 gal jugs, but if I were you I'd use the Truck Stop bulk pumps.

nwminnesota · 11-14-2016, 05:09 PM

Fleet farm in MN. However I try to avoid gas stations being they usually charge double. Cheaper the better just as long as it is certified. My truck has a 5 gallon tank but I just fill it up 2.5 gallons a time and let it get down to 15 to 20% left.
This way it is always fresh.

spoon059 · 11-14-2016, 05:47 PM

You can buy it anywhere, but I suggest you but it from a place that sells a lot of it... like at a gas station. That way you are likely to get fresher DEF.

Also, don't top off your DEF. I would imagine that your rig will sit for longer periods of time without being driven. DEF has a shelf life that decreases with heat. I would try not to keep your DEF tank filled up all year. I would fill it up at the start of your camping season and monitor your usage and try to keep it pretty low over the offseason.

WaltW · 11-14-2016, 10:51 PM

I purchase my DEF at the truck pumps and carry a spare from walmart making sure it gets used before its expiration date (about a year). With saddle fuel tanks you'll be using the truck lanes anyway.

rgolding · 11-15-2016, 07:34 AM

We buy most of our fuel at Love's Truck Stops. Their prices are competitive and it is very easy in and out, using the trucker's pumps. We get the tires checked about once a week or at the beginning of most trips. I top up the DEF at the pump, usually paying about $2.75 a gallon, and top the tank when 2 out of 4 lights are out. I like the ability to fill both saddle tanks at the same time and since we tow a car, 4 wheels on the ground, I don't want to get in a position of having to back up. I can always count on good product, and good service.

We put 25,000 miles on our Seneca in the first year of ownership and expect about the same in the next year. Like to keep these type of things simple and handled professionally.

hboy · 11-15-2016, 07:59 AM

I prefer truck stop DEF. I've heard arguments both ways between packaged DEF (blue def) and truck stop DEF. I've used both.

I have not (yet) had any problems with truck stop DEF and the price is much more reasonable.

If you don't put many miles on your rig, I would suggest only trying to fill the tank half full or so. If you completely fill the tank, but don't drive many miles, you can end up with a tank full of expired DEF fluid. If you just put in a couple gallons of DEF every 4th diesel fill up or so you can begin to track your usage. Maybe you travel a lot and will blow through DEF. But if your rig sits for months without use I'd rather not have a full tank of DEF.

Mountain Cajun · 11-15-2016, 09:13 AM

I'm with rgolding, 20,000 in the first year. I get it a the truck stop island. And I keep a box in the front compartment incase I run low and none is available.

Rustysocket · 11-15-2016, 10:10 AM

I buy DEF where ever I happen to be when I either need it or have used one of the two 2.5 gallon jugs I keep at home.

DEF does not "go bad". It simply oxidises over time and loses some of it's effectiveness, all that will happen is your sensors in your system will cause it to be consumed at a higher rate to meet the exhaust targets. "Expired" DEF is not bad... it's just not as effective as it was when it was packaged.

At a usage rate of 2-3% of fuel consumption it makes no sense to worry that much about it. It's like trying to worry about running out of windshield wiper fluid and "saving" it for when the windshield is extra dirty.

The only place I don't have it taken care of is when they do service on the cars or the truck at the dealer. Unless they want to top it off for free (Which they do as a courtesy sometimes.)

LSA376 · 11-17-2016, 11:57 AM

Be careful of Walmart DEF. Walmart will take anything on return, several incidents of people purchasing DEF at Walmart only to have check engine light and limp home mode activated. Turns out, people purchase DEF at Walmart, use it, refill it with water, glue the foam seal back on and return the DEF for a refund. The next person buys the "watered" DEF dumps it in the tank and troubles start. Happened to one of my employees with his Ram 3500, dealer charged him for draining the system and resetting codes, was not covered under warranty. Dealer asked where he purchased the DEF, he mentioned Walmart and the technician told him of the returned "watered" DEF issues with Walmart. Be careful...

Rustysocket · 11-17-2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSA376

Be careful of Walmart DEF. Walmart will take anything on return, several incidents of people purchasing DEF at Walmart only to have check engine light and limp home mode activated. Turns out, people purchase DEF at Walmart, use it, refill it with water, glue the foam seal back on and return the DEF for a refund. The next person buys the "watered" DEF dumps it in the tank and troubles start. Happened to one of my employees with his Ram 3500, dealer charged him for draining the system and resetting codes, was not covered under warranty. Dealer asked where he purchased the DEF, he mentioned Walmart and the technician told him of the returned "watered" DEF issues with Walmart. Be careful...

That scenario is troubling though and I'm not sure how you could protect yourself from it... but I'm calling BS.

For a "technician" to have seen enough of that to come up with that story that Walmart is to blame just isn't realistic. It would take multiple bottles of pure water to dilute the urea out of the working range of the sensor not just one.

While I am sure there are people (likely RV'ers) cheap enough to go through that hassle of returning water in DEF bottles to Wal-Mart, statistically speaking based on the volumes they sell alone for a technician to have seen multiple instances of that happening often enough to determine the source is not realistic. I think your buddy got conned into paying for work that a tech couldn't properly diagnose, went over book time and couldn't bill Dodge for the work.

When your buddy took the bill to Wal-Mart to pay.... what did they say?

LSA376 · 11-17-2016, 02:31 PM

My son works at Home Depot, it amazes me the stories he tells me of items people return. I own a '16 Ram 6.7 in addition to the Seneca and have read similar issues with watered DEF being returned to Walmart, I purchase from the pump or chain automotive retailers (harder on returns) and always inspect the seal on the jug. Regarding your question, there's no way of proving that the DEF purchased at Walmart was the culprit other than the DEF was watered down and my employee always purchases his DEF from Walmart. 2.5 gallons of compromised DEF added to a 6-gallon tank that is only half full is more than enough to cause problems.

Jagiven · 11-17-2016, 02:56 PM

No DEF here. But people do crazy things. I am a Scoutmaster, many years ago a young scout in our troop received a tent for Christmas from his parents. Being winter in Minnesota it did not get used right away. he brought it to the first spring campout. Opened the box for the first time, what did we find. It was full of garbage. Someone bought it took the tent out, filled it with trash, and returned it. The individual even taped up the box really nicely so it looked as it had never been opened.

No one was hurt and no damage was done, but the look on the kid's face was priceless.

BuddyRay · 11-17-2016, 03:26 PM

OK, not to hijack the thread - but time to tell a "top this" story.

Back in 1968 I drove through Monterrey Mexico on a camping adventure. While there we visited a cave where the entrance is up on the side of a mesa called Grutas de Garcia. Signs on the way there tell you "no gas for the next 40 miles." so we topped off before leaving Monterrey. But a guy with a diesel pickup didn't plan ahead - or couldn't read the sign in spanish. Either way he was on Empty at the Cave and a very helpful employee offered to sell him a 5 gal. jerry can full of Diesel from the Cave's backup generator supply - for an outlandish price of course.

I found all this out as we were driving back to town, saw them on the side of the road and stopped to help. At the time he didn't know (but suspected) what had happened. I always used to carry a tow strap - so given the lack of AAA in Mexico - I towed him slowly about 30 miles back to a garage. I later found out what we suspected. They guy sold him 5 gallons of water with just a little Diesel on top to make it smell right. And apparently the 5 gallon can had been used to store some kind of commercial cleaning agent because when they drained his fuel tank, soap suds came out.

Needless to say that cost him quite a few pesos. He made a report to the local office of the Federal Policia but was told there was nothing they could do - they frankly told him that the owner of the cave was the cousin of a powerful politician.

Rustysocket · 11-17-2016, 03:39 PM

Having some experience in analytical chemistry and also being an owner of Diesel vehicles I decided to look into this a little further...

While I cannot find any credible references to your claim of watered down DEF being sold at Wal-mart on any sort of statistically significant basis it is not out of the realm of reality because there are a lot of scumbags out there and no it would not surprise me what people attempt to return...
The fact that people are allowed to purchase things, use them and then return them is something I have always had a problem with anyway and feel it has created a culture that furthers the zero accountability we have emboldened with our younger generations..... that however is a different rant and not appropriate here on this forum as I'm sure there are many I would piss off. I would like to see retailers accept the position of you bought it, you own it... do your research next time...

Again with my background, the next thing I did was evaluate whether it was reasonable for a tech to easily assess the quality of DEF at the dealership without sending a sample out for testing... because again, we all know that car dealerships are always honest...

One of the process controls that DEF manufacturers use to assess their batches is done by refractometry, or the degree at which light is bent when it passes through the solution. This equipment is not hard to use but it would be cost prohibitive for most to own....or so I thought. What I was expecting to find was a test strip that would change colors... what I found was a relatively inexpensive refractometer specifically calibrated for DEF...

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-5025-Dies.../dp/B0054WI5KQ

So while I still feel the statistics of this scenario don't pan out to warrant an all out Wal-mart DEF boycott, obviously I was wrong and DEF quality must be more of an issue than one would think given the fact that a testing device is readily available for the cost of a round of drinks and burgers...

Something to consider given the cost of these Trucks and Motorhomes and the downtime it would create.

Again, some people are unbelievably cheap. Nothing amazes me anymore.

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