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Old 08-03-2015, 11:33 AM   #141
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That's a no brainer.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:05 PM   #142
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I had the hydraulic on my previous rig. Never had a problem with it. Also, a very robust system. It would sometimes lift one side of the 5er wheels completely off the ground to level it.
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Old 08-03-2015, 03:19 PM   #143
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Well, after reading all 15 pages of posts here and all the problems everyone is having, I would never buy either system. My system levels just fine by hand. It is the 36 ft 33.5RETS 5th wheeler. I just use boards on side to side leveling if any are needed and the plastic blocks under the stabilizer pads. Not been a problem and I sure don't want the headaches most of you are having!

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Old 08-04-2015, 10:50 AM   #144
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We opted for the new camper with the self leveling system because I can't move as good as I once could. I was hurt fighting a fire a few years ago and only have 7% movement in my right ankle. Was kind of hoping that after this many years working with these systems they would have the bugs worked out. Not even close. We will figure out the measurements soon and it will be ok.
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Old 08-04-2015, 07:36 PM   #145
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Mike,
You will figure it out. Just returned from an extended trip wher I set up in six different campgrounds. I had successful auto levels at last four campsites. Some of what I learned:
I used bubble levels I put on camper to either block wheels on one side or to not let the front legs down as much if sloping front to rear.
If I block wheels on one side, I also block the 3 jacks on that side as well. Trick is to not let a jack hit the end of its stroke before it can reach level.
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:16 PM   #146
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For you guys using 3.0 with mixed results, not including a jack physically running out of stroke, how often are you seeing the Jack lose enough lifting power to level and throwing an error, and if so what kind of maximum left to right off level in degrees are you seeing before it does so.

It seems a lot of the new 3.0 owners and users are more accepting and acknowledging that this system is more of a stabilization system and less of a "heavy lifting" leveling system, as many are using manual means of doing the heavy lifting of the leveling (left to right mostly). Many of us 2.0 users have been up in arms in believing the system should be able to level up to 1.5 degrees left or right off center (Lippert spec) as a true leveling system.

It brings me much pain, to be backing onto blocks, or planks with my Seismic at the campsite when a competitors 5er pulls up next door and the owner unhooks, presses one button, and watches his hydraulic leveling system level the coach, which is what I thought I was buying when I chose the "6pt leveling system" option at sales time.

I won't beat the dead horse anymore. Please keep the experiences you have with the system coming, as one way or another they benefit our community of owners.

Enjoy the rest of the season.
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:42 PM   #147
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When we purchased our 36reqs the fridg and layout was important in my decision to purchase. Didn't go for the auto levelers but after the first year I wished i had. This spring I went down to Quadra mfg (Bigfoot) in White Pigeon , Michigan and had them put on a 6pt leveling system. This leveling system is great. Been out several times and some pretty unlevel sites not a problem. The two front jacks are 17,000 lb each and the rear four are 12,000 each . Plenty of power to level. The 6pt has four separate hyd systems to level with their own pump. The only issue is you have to pay attention when you unhook because it is much faster than the old electric jacks. With all the issues I can't amagine Jayco not addressing this issue.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:34 PM   #148
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Clayton, can you say roughly how much the bigfoot system was? I think part of the newer owners acceptance is at least two fold. First, Jayco is now saying that you have to start on a level surface before using the "auto-leveling"/stabilization system, so the expectations are not as high. When we were buying our campers they were were still advertising that these systems were still true auto leveling systems (chuckle chuckle *snort*) which they clearly are not. Second, I may be way off base here, but it doesn't seem that they had experience with the hydraulic system before using the electric. My last coach (evergreen bayhill) had the hydraulic system, so I naturally assumed that this electric system would function the same, just slower. How wrong I have been!

As P25ct has stated, keep the responses coming and keep calling Jayco with the "fail to level" error messages. So far, their way of addressing it is to now say to start on a level surface. They did not used to say that. Only with enough complaints will they do something. At best, this system is false advertising.
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Old 08-05-2015, 06:39 AM   #149
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Clayton, can you say roughly how much the bigfoot system was? I think part of the newer owners acceptance is at least two fold. First, Jayco is now saying that you have to start on a level surface before using the "auto-leveling"/stabilization system, so the expectations are not as high. When we were buying our campers they were were still advertising that these systems were still true auto leveling systems (chuckle chuckle *snort*) which they clearly are not. Second, I may be way off base here, but it doesn't seem that they had experience with the hydraulic system before using the electric. My last coach (evergreen bayhill) had the hydraulic system, so I naturally assumed that this electric system would function the same, just slower. How wrong I have been!

As P25ct has stated, keep the responses coming and keep calling Jayco with the "fail to level" error messages. So far, their way of addressing it is to now say to start on a level surface. They did not used to say that. Only with enough complaints will they do something. At best, this system is false advertising.

I paid around 4,600 for it not cheap but worth it to me not getting frustrated with a system that is fussy. The biggest issue was having to weld the brackets to the frame . If it was a factory option I am sure it would much cheaper . Their cylinders are lifetime warranty for leaks ect.
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Old 08-06-2015, 12:37 PM   #150
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As I have stated before, my system MUST be nose below grade or it will never auto level. The other problem will be, Jayco will figure out this system is bogus; we'll be stuck with it and they'll fix it mid year 2016 and switch to the Big Foot system. The problems are Lippert makes the frames for Jayco so I assume that's why they use their systems.
If I am over 1% off grade it will fail. If I don't put the 6" x 6" blocks under each jack, it will fail. If the battery is not at 13.8 it will fail as it draws too many amps when it gets to the final stages. When you hear that dreaded "click" from the battery compartment you know you've just failed. (Getting ready to upgrade to more/better batteries) Mine will lift the unit up to 8" before it strokes out provided the blocks are under the jacks. I try to keep it so I am only about 3-5" away from the blocks with the leveler feet. We shall see what Friday brings... Stay tuned
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:42 PM   #151
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Most of that sounds typical for this system. It is worth noting, though, that the hydraulic Lippert system functions nothing like this crappy electric system. My last coach had it, and would level from more than 4 degrees off. It would easily pick up the whole trailer if asked to. I sincerely hope that Jayco switches to this system, but they won't as long as no one says anything. We need to be flooding them with these failed leveling attempts.
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:42 PM   #152
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Mike... I lifted the front of my rig 1.5 deg out of level (front way high)
Then pressed auto level and it had no problems.
It lowered the front and then carried on.

I don't understand why you have to start nose down
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Old 08-07-2015, 07:59 AM   #153
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Mike... I lifted the front of my rig 1.5 deg out of level (front way high)
Then pressed auto level and it had no problems.
It lowered the front and then carried on.

I don't understand why you have to start nose down
I don't understand either. I've tried with the nose high and it will not work. I wish I was smart enough to create a system that would function as described and see it for a profit, but not to make people going broke to buy it.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:37 PM   #154
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I have a question for those of you who own the 36 reqs. I really like this floor plan except for one thing. The kitchen. I has no pantry or a coat closet. Do you find you have enough room for kitchen supply's and food? Need some reviews from real world experience. Thank you
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:55 PM   #155
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I have a question for those of you who own the 36 reqs. I really like this floor plan except for one thing. The kitchen. I has no pantry or a coat closet. Do you find you have enough room for kitchen supply's and food? Need some reviews from real world experience. Thank you
Hi Cgelmini,

We have the Eagle Premier 361REQS which is a very similar floor plan to the Pinnacle 36REQS.

They way my wife packs, I can definitely say we have more then enough room for kitchen supply's and food.

We (aka she) uses one of the wall cabinets next to the fire place for snacks, cereals, etc. In ours, the non-sink peninsula has a large base cabinet good for storing food & supplies. We have found plenty of drawers and cabinet space for pots, pans, dishes, cups, flatware, etc.

As far as coat closet, you're right, there is none. Our solution is to put hooks on the wall just to the left of the door to hang coats in-use. Other spare coats are hung in the front closet.

Hope this was of some help.
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:11 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgelmini View Post
I have a question for those of you who own the 36 reqs. I really like this floor plan except for one thing. The kitchen. I has no pantry or a coat closet. Do you find you have enough room for kitchen supply's and food? Need some reviews from real world experience. Thank you
We have camped 4 times in the 36REQS. So far we've had enough room, but the cabinet / slide next to the garbage can will need some attention this fall. During travel things shift and fall between and sometimes you can't open the drawer, and when you get it open you have to reach the stuff that made it to the floor.
As far as closet space, there are only 2 of us so they get dumped over the kitchen chairs until my DW puts them in the front closet.
Not enough outlets on either side of the TV in the living area and to hook up a Bluray player because the top of the line Pinnacle only has a DVD player is difficult without an extra outlet.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:18 PM   #157
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I want to show you guys something. Look at this chart. The system uses 10guage wire from controller to jacks. I estimated a 40 foot run at 12v and 20 amps. The voltage drop is nearly 2 volts so the Jack only sees a little over 10 volts. Consequently the amperage increases as voltage across the line drops, so the controller will see higher amperage due to the voltage drop over the long run of 10guage wire. To run 40 feet (or more possibly) and maintain voltage so as to get more efficiency and lift out of the system (no out of stroke due to over amperage) you need 6 gauge cable. See my next screenshot. If this makes no sense to you, the wire is too small. Needs bigger wire to the rear jacks. Click image for larger version

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Old 08-07-2015, 09:23 PM   #158
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Here is same calculation with 4guage wire and 12.4 volts (more realistic dual battery voltage). If you give the system 13.8v from your TV electrical system, that's even better. The jacks will see more voltage and the controller less amperage and more headroom and lift prior to out of stroke amp error. Hope this helps put I. Perspective why it peters out.

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Old 08-09-2015, 10:35 PM   #159
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So, plugging all this into Ohm's law equations reveals that this system has grossly undersized wiring. When the volts go down, there are not enough amps to run the motor under load and it fails. The system calls it an "out of stroke" error, which, according to the motor's "brain", is how it sees it. There are not enough amps to provide lift, just as if the motor had reached the end of its stroke and bottomed out. Interesting. That probably explains why they need the 12.5 volts at the control panel. Due to the voltage drop caused by cheap a** construction, we are probably running the lift motors at the edge of tolerance to begin with, so there is no way to provide the needed amps once they are under load.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:00 AM   #160
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I will plug mine back into my TV after I've unhitched this weekend and see if it makes a difference. It makes sense to me that the motor would think it was at the end of stroke with the rise of the amperage sending back to the controller as it lifted and the batteries became weaker.
I guess another question is, with the 10ga wire and sending more "juice" down the line are we just asking for future troubles? In looking at my controller that is in no protected from things in the basement, I am not 100% sure that they are even 10ga. more like 14 or 16ga. They are very small. I will look at it Friday as I build something to protect this from say a chair being put into the basement in the dark by someone other than me that knows the wires are just dangling down there.
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