kitchen sink and counter top flaw

[3330]

We have to remember that these are RVs and as such can't be full size houses. My first RV was an 8' pickup camper. Now that had some head banging items in it:wink:

[msturtz]

We have the same problem with the bathroom sink in our 2014 Greyhawk. They put the sink too far back and so when I brush my teeth I have to crane my neck to get under the cabinet so I don't spill on the counter in front of the sink.

[jdorant]

Originally Posted by Redhorse 823

Looks like the real issue is the sink was set to far back against the wall.
Counter should be replace with the sink moved as far forward as the cabinet will allow.

Or you could get arm extenders...

Wow, that sink is set far back. I'd be willing to bet that thats the bigger problem than the cabinets. My Father-iin-law built his kitchen and anytime I've done dishes over there I find myself leaning over the sink and my back killing after just a couple minutes. There is no overhead cabinet in the way when bending over, but i finally realized my back was killing because he set his sink too far back. Its only a couple inches, but really makes a difference.

[Redhorse 823]

Ok, I have an idea...
Its not much, look at the supplied floor plan from Jayco. Mind you its not an exact representation, however, it could be a good representation of the designers/engineers intent.

http://www.jayco.com/g/db/model_floo...e_pic_2522.jpg

Notice the line at the front of the sink in relation to the front of the cabinet...
Notice the space between the sink and the back wall...

Now look at the Photos of the OP washing dishes. See the difference in the design to the "as built?"

So in closing you could state its not a design flaw but a production issue...

[Redhorse 823]

Originally Posted by 101vet

We have to remember that these are RVs and as such can't be full size houses. My first RV was an 8' pickup camper. Now that had some head banging items in it:wink:

Great point...

[jdorant]

Originally Posted by Redhorse 823

Ok, I have an idea...
Its not much, look at the supplied floor plan from Jayco. Mind you its not an exact representation, however, it could be a good representation of the designers/engineers intent.

http://www.jayco.com/g/db/model_floo...e_pic_2522.jpg

Notice the line at the front of the sink in relation to the front of the cabinet...
Notice the space between the sink and the back wall...

Now look at the Photos of the OP washing dishes. See the difference in the design to the "as built?"

So in closing you could state its not a design flaw but a production issue...

I would say is was their intent to put the sink closer to the front edge, but at build it can't be that forward do to the cabinets beneath. The counter curves out but the cabinets below do not which is why the sink is set back. I personally would not be happy with that design and it stinks the OP is unhappy with it and didn't realize before they purchased that unit, but I also personally wouldn't expect Jayco to pay for the rebuild. There are many things I like and dislike on different floor plans and I wish I could take all the good and put it into one design, but unfortunately you cannot. You need to pick whats best for you out of the current builds and then customize the rest to your own liking.

[Panhead]

I'm not going to be much help here but we are not unhappy with the design, but then again my wife is a munchkin at 5' even. I don't do dishes so........ No problem. I will agree however that there is plenty of room to move the sink closer to the front of the cabinet by at least 2".

Solution, get yourself a munchkin and give her the job!

Steve

[Redhorse 823]

Originally Posted by jdorant

I would say is was their intent to put the sink closer to the front edge, but at build it can't be that forward do to the cabinets beneath. The counter curves out but the cabinets below do not which is why the sink is set back. I personally would not be happy with that design and it stinks the OP is unhappy with it and didn't realize before they purchased that unit, but I also personally wouldn't expect Jayco to pay for the rebuild. There are many things I like and dislike on different floor plans and I wish I could take all the good and put it into one design, but unfortunately you cannot. You need to pick whats best for you out of the current builds and then customize the rest to your own liking.

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

I agree, Jayco should not pay for what would be at this point a modification.
They should be made aware of the perceived design issue.

The sink base cabinet does extend out to accommodate a forward set sink.
If it was me, and I was unhappy with it, I would replace the counter and sink.
Exactly like you are saying about customizing what you don't like...

[ckdixon]

I tend to lose more skin off the top of my head in the outside compartments than I do on the cabinet above the sink. True it's an inconvenience, but ours came with the 4-door refrigerator in lieu of a pantry so every cubic inch of cabinet space is precious. My wife clears the cabinet just fine. Perhaps it's just a reminder that there can be too many cooks in the kitchen!

[boclark]

Perhaps I am missing something here. When you looked at the model, were the sink and cabinets in place? The unit you purchased, were the sink/cabinets different from the model you looked at? If you got what you looked at and subsequently purchased then I am unsure what this has to do with Jayco. We all make decisions that we later regret but is it not an error that you made and not really a Jayco issue? If the design is flawed, the customers send the message to the manufacturer by not purchasing it in the first place. I am not trying to be difficult but sometimes it is not a manufacturer problem!

[troutslayer]

Originally Posted by boclark

Perhaps I am missing something here. When you looked at the model, were the sink and cabinets in place? The unit you purchased, were the sink/cabinets different from the model you looked at? If you got what you looked at and subsequently purchased then I am unsure what this has to do with Jayco. We all make decisions that we later regret but is it not an error that you made and not really a Jayco issue? If the design is flawed, the customers send the message to the manufacturer by not purchasing it in the first place. I am not trying to be difficult but sometimes it is not a manufacturer problem!

It is a design flaw (at least for some) but you would not notice it until you stood at the kitchen sink and washed dishes (or added water to your glass of Scotch). Therein lies the problem. It's one of those "gray areas". I see your point but also understand the OPs side as well.

[Ela1948]

This issue has just about been beat to death!!! As I've said before, part of the problem is that you don't have any room for you feet under the counter. I'm 5'10" and weight 270. I wash dishes in that unit with some regularity. Yes, you are bent over a little while working at the sink.. I rest my head on the over head cabinets as I work at the sink. Takes all the strain off of your back. Problem goes away. I guess you could call it a design flaw. I really don't want Jayco to change anything because of the storage area that you would lose. To move that sink out would alter the under counter storage capacity.

[Brownie]

As a kitchen designer for 20 years, I can speak with some authority about the cabinet placement. "Bumping" cabinets (pulling them forward or staggering their height) is a popular technique to add a dramatic effect to an otherwise straight and boring line of cabinets. The sink base cabinet has been pulled forward (approx. 3") to accommodate the increased depth and lower clearance of the cabinet above. The problem is with the sink location. It appears you have a solid surface countertop (like Corian). The countertop fabricator should have mounted the sink closer to the front of the cabinet to achieve the proper clearance. I would demand that Jayco show you the actual "build" blueprint for the countertop. If it shows the sink moved forward in the countertop (as it should), then it is not a design problem. It is a fabrication problem with the countertop fabricator. As such, it is IMHO still Jayco's responsibility to correct. The countertop can easily be removed and replaced with a correctly made top. As an alternative, the sink section can be cut out, moved forward, and reinstalled. One of the nice things about solid surface countertops, is that the seams would be completely invisible.
Just my 2 cents.

[troutslayer]

Originally Posted by Brownie

"Bumping" cabinets (pulling them forward or staggering their height) is a popular technique to add a dramatic effect to an otherwise straight and boring line of cabinets. The sink base cabinet has been pulled forward (approx. 3") to accommodate the increased depth and lower clearance of the cabinet above. The problem is with the sink location.

I gotta disagree with you Brownie. Yes, the sink base cabinet has been bumped out 3" however, the wall cabinet above has also been bumped out (looks like 3"). Therefore the situation is as if there were no "bumping" at all. So that brings me to a (normal) kitchen design where the sink base has a cabinet overhead. Would it not be something like 18" or 24" tall, provided it was the standard 12" depth? To my way of thinking, since the wall cabinet is "full height" (30" + tall + protruding light molding), it should actually be shallower in depth not deeper. Flawed thinking or right thinking?

[Brownie]

True enough, Skip. But most of us have full height cabinets in our rigs, and they don't get in our way. Simplest solution is to have the sink moved forward in the countertop. Problem solved.

[Brownie]

Originally Posted by jdorant

I would say is was their intent to put the sink closer to the front edge, but at build it can't be that forward do to the cabinets beneath. The counter curves out but the cabinets below do not which is why the sink is set back. .

On the contrary: the bottom sink cabinet is pulled out. I have to agree with Redhorse's earlier post (and what I said earlier): it is a production problem with the solid surface countertop fabricator. Jayco should stand behind it.

If you have the opportunity, you may want to get a quote from a Corian fabricator on having the sink section of countertop removed, refabricated, and reinstalled. Then present that along with your photos and Redhorse's floor plan to Jayco. (Indecently, if done by a competent fabricator, the seams will be virtually invisible.)

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[Ela1948]

Originally Posted by boclark

Perhaps I am missing something here. When you looked at the model, were the sink and cabinets in place? The unit you purchased, were the sink/cabinets different from the model you looked at? If you got what you looked at and subsequently purchased then I am unsure what this has to do with Jayco. We all make decisions that we later regret but is it not an error that you made and not really a Jayco issue? If the design is flawed, the customers send the message to the manufacturer by not purchasing it in the first place. I am not trying to be difficult but sometimes it is not a manufacturer problem!

Amen!!!!