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06-22-2016, 08:40 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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Forgot to mention... What's with voltage drop?
I have 32.6 volts at the panel and 32.6 volts at the controller.
Over 35' of 8 and 6 gauge wire.
Voltage drop is over rated
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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06-24-2016, 01:54 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: kaml
Posts: 1,285
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Klassic, where di you get the solar components from? Is that a residential panel? I still haven't figured out the difference between what a residential solar place and rv place sells as far as using either on a trailer. The residential ones seem to be larger and cheaper $/watt. I plan to put on about 500w of solar this summer. Already have 4x 6v AGM & 2kw inverter installed in the gen compartment. I'll put the solar hdw there too and run the feed down the toilet vent stack.
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06-24-2016, 06:03 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Magnolia
Posts: 4,841
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Very nice Klassic!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2016 North Point 377 RLBH, with a few mods, disc brakes, shocks, Sailun g rated tires, wet bolts
2014 Ford F350 Platinum sold
2017 Ford F350 Lariat, CC, 6.7PSD, DRW, Trailer Saver BD3 hitch
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06-24-2016, 08:16 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayersZ28
Klassic, where di you get the solar components from? Is that a residential panel? I still haven't figured out the difference between what a residential solar place and rv place sells as far as using either on a trailer. The residential ones seem to be larger and cheaper $/watt. I plan to put on about 500w of solar this summer. Already have 4x 6v AGM & 2kw inverter installed in the gen compartment. I'll put the solar hdw there too and run the feed down the toilet vent stack.
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I got it in Mississauga, $250 260 watt
It's 5'5" long
SAW Technology - Selling Wind Turbines and Solar Energy Systems
Here is the specs
http://www.jinkosolar.com/ftp/EN-JKM270P-60(4BB).pdf
The Morningstar I got from the US... Too expensive here.
My wife happened to be in California and I Amazon 1day shipping to her hotel.
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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06-24-2016, 08:27 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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Thanks Tom.
I don't know if my 2 T105's are giving me troubles or not, but I unplugged shore power with full batteries at 7am. Residential fridge running. Full sunny day.
Still had full batteries at 7pm. Overnight the batteries ran down. By morning batteries were around 12.3v. Another full sunny day and the panel had to keep up with the fridge and batteries. It's a little too much.
Lasted until 12am and the low voltage alarm was flashing.
I can't get 2 nights. And that was not actually using the trailer. If I had 4 batteries I would be good. If I had 500 watts then the batteries would have charged again for another night.
If I wasn't in full sun for both days I wouldn't have made it until 12am the next night.
Maybe I need a small genny too just in case.
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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06-24-2016, 08:35 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Magnolia
Posts: 4,841
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Klassic's turn for solar.
Maybe you need 2 more batteries and another panel! Lol [emoji23]
I'm following this thread to see what you come up with. I'd like to add solar one day myself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2016 North Point 377 RLBH, with a few mods, disc brakes, shocks, Sailun g rated tires, wet bolts
2014 Ford F350 Platinum sold
2017 Ford F350 Lariat, CC, 6.7PSD, DRW, Trailer Saver BD3 hitch
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06-25-2016, 06:11 AM
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#27
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL area
Posts: 5,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klassic
Thanks Tom.
I don't know if my 2 T105's are giving me troubles or not, but I unplugged shore power with full batteries at 7am. Residential fridge running. Full sunny day.
I do not think the batteries are giving you any problems, I think they are telling you that they need some assistance, like more charging power and possibly 2 more batteries, but I think the SOLAR charging capabilities is your main issue.
Still had full batteries at 7pm. Overnight the batteries ran down. By morning batteries were around 12.3v. Another full sunny day and the panel had to keep up with the fridge and batteries. It's a little too much.
Lasted until 12am and the low voltage alarm was flashing.
The key point here is that your SOLAR is having a difficult time trying to supply enough power to both the fridge and the batteries. If it were me I would start by adding 1 more SOLAR panel, to eliminate the daytime power supply portion. See if that is enough to care for both your daytime fridge usage and supply enough power to fully recharge the batteries. One more additional thing to think about.. your are in the summer months and the SOLAR panels have a lot of sun to make them happy, come Fall, Winter and Spring, your source of sunshine will be drastically reduced, so additional SOLAR panels will be required if you plan on camping during those seasons
I can't get 2 nights. And that was not actually using the trailer. If I had 4 batteries I would be good. If I had 500 watts then the batteries would have charged again for another night.
If I wasn't in full sun for both days I wouldn't have made it until 12am the next night.
You will notice that your voltage at the end of the charging part of the day, your batteries will be between 13.1 and 12.8 volts. If you monitor the voltage, you will notice that the voltage drop between 13.1 and 12.8 will be like a roller coaster ride down and 12.8 and 12.6 is still a fast pace, but once you hit 12.6 it is a much slower decline to 12.2. I am thinking that your current SOLAR is not giving you a full charge, while trying to keep the fridge running also. Adding the additional panel(s) should get you through the day and those not so sunny days. Can you measure the Ah's used and the Ah's being put back into the batteries during the day? Do you have the fridge/freezer turned on to the max cold temperature?
Maybe I need a small genny too just in case.
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Don
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06-25-2016, 06:51 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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Quote:
volts. If you monitor the voltage, you will notice that the voltage drop between 13.1 and 12.8 will be like a roller coaster ride down and 12.8 and 12.6 is still a fast pace, but once you hit 12.6 it is a much slower decline to 12.2
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Yes Don. Exactly what happens. Then it hangs around 12.2-12.11.
Maybe I would get the next night but I'll be probably 30-40%.
My first thought was fridge temp management. Freezer is at 0F and fridge is 36F. Lower would be better.
I'll probably end up getting 2 more batteries and keep them on a seperate bank with my selector switch.
I have 2 T105's and a 12v now in a seperate bank. The 12v is to make sure I can still close the slides and put the rig back on the truck if I drain the Trojans.
I'm only trying to get 2 nights max. I'm not much of a boon docker.
And trying stay charged if I have to park the rig for hours without power.
Like today I'm heading out 2 hours then staying in at a Walmart, then leaving the rig parked in another parking lot the next day.
I used to do this all the time with the SOB. This residential fridge is the killer.
But i love it. Ice...filtered water...all the room in the world...no vents on the outside for wasps...no fan to worry about in the slide.
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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06-25-2016, 07:17 AM
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#29
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL area
Posts: 5,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klassic
I'll probably end up getting 2 more batteries and keep them on a seperate bank with my selector switch.
I have 2 T105's and a 12v now in a seperate bank. The 12v is to make sure I can still close the slides and put the rig back on the truck if I drain the Trojans.
I would go with one more SOLAR panel, and that should easily get you enough power to care for both the fridge and charge the batteries. Once you have verified that the additional SOLAR panel is enough to care for your electrical demands, you can then look into adding the additional batteries all tied together, and your additional panel will also care for them, as you have already figured out how much you need to meet your electrical needs (Ah's needed). This will move you from the 50% usage bracket to the 20% usage bracket, which will increase their life. If you go with the batteries first, you already know that your current SOLAR is not enough for the existing batteries, and will not handle 2 more batteries. One of the other issues with deep cycle batteries is that they do not like to be lower than a full charge for extended lengths of time. With the type of loads that your batteries currently have, I would recommend that you have the Morningstar equalize them every 3 or 4 months.
I'm only trying to get 2 nights max. I'm not much of a boon docker.
And trying stay charged if I have to park the rig for hours without power.
Like today I'm heading out 2 hours then staying in at a Walmart, then leaving the rig parked in another parking lot the next day.
The additional SOLAR panel should get you through those couple days easily
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Good Luck
Don
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06-25-2016, 07:42 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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Thanks Don.
My alligator arms kept me from digging deep into my pockets and I only went with the Morningstar MPPT30.
Even thought the panel would only be $250. I don't think my controller is big enough?
I know it would handle the extra power and the extra panel would be better in low light situations.
I should have got the MPPT45.
I plugged my numbers into Morningstar's string calculator, and 500w certainly isn't "optimal"
What do you think?
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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06-27-2016, 12:41 PM
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#31
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL area
Posts: 5,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klassic
Even thought the panel would only be $250. I don't think my controller is big enough?
What do you think?
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You can exceed the nominal wattage ratings of your 30 amp MPPT controller with no problem and it will not void the warranty. The only thing you need to make sure of is that you do not exceed the MPPT controller's max input voltage from your SOLAR panels. For your TS-MPPT 30, you never want your total combined solar panel voltage Voc to exceed 150V( in your coldest temperatures, which is when you get the most voltage out of a SOLAR panel). With that said, having 520W (2 - 260 Watt panels) on a TS-MPPT-30 charging your 12V battery setup is more than fine (assuming the total Voc does not exceed 150V).
Just keep in mind that you will never see more than ~30A going into their batteries. Basically, when they are in bulk and if their array is producing more than ~400W than anything over will just be lost.
I would go with the additional panel and eventually when you win the Canadian lotto, you can purchase a TS MPPT 60 and sell the 30 on eBay
Don
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06-27-2016, 01:26 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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The Canadian Lottos aren't taxed, so I'll have enough for more batteries too.
My conclusion after this weekend using the trailer is the residential fridge pretty much never shuts off. Sometimes it uses 4-5a dc, sometimes, 9-12a, once and a while it likes 24a.
I guess it would shut off more if i had it loaded with food, instead of just a couple days worth.
260 watts of solar and 2 6 volt batteries is not enough for a night and a day without killing the 50% rule....needed my reserve battery to close the slides and operate the jacks and pretty much killed that battery too.
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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06-27-2016, 01:34 PM
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#33
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL area
Posts: 5,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klassic
The Canadian Lottos aren't taxed, so I'll have enough for more batteries too.
NICE!!
My conclusion after this weekend using the trailer is the residential fridge pretty much never shuts off. Sometimes it uses 4-5a dc, sometimes, 9-12a, once and a while it likes 24a.
I guess it would shut off more if i had it loaded with food, instead of just a couple days worth.
When we leave home for a few months, we load the home fridge with gallons of water (or lots of beer). It really keeps the fridge from cycling on and off that much. Same with the freezer, almost full 1/2 gallons of water. Or load it up with ice cream.
260 watts of solar and 2 6 volt batteries is not enough for a night and a day without killing the 50% rule....needed my reserve battery to close the slides and operate the jacks and pretty much killed that battery too.
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Don
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07-14-2016, 07:36 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Milford
Posts: 629
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Klassic - what inverter are you you using? Is it a pure dine wave?
__________________
2016 Jayco Eagle HT 29.5BHDS (ordered 12/30/15, delivered 3/8/16)
2015 F-350 crew cab, short bed, 6.7L PSD, Pullrite Superglide 3300 hitch
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07-14-2016, 08:12 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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It's the Xantrex Pro 1000. Comes installed with the residential fridge.
I had one in my SOB too.
The fan runs way too often and is annoying.
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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07-15-2016, 05:55 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Milford
Posts: 629
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When I look at that model on Xantrex's website, it looks like a Modified Sine Wave Inverter. I have read a bunch of times that refrigerator compressors shouldn't be run off Modified Sine Waves and should have Pure Sine Wave. I'm no Electrical Engineer (nor did I stay at Holiday Inn last night), so I am taking that advice at face value.
I did find this on google (because the internet is always right):
"In general, because the total harmonic distortion is higher in modified square wave inverters, motors will run hotter (less efficiently, consuming up to 30% more energy than with pure sine wave inverters), and likely not last as long."
Could it be causing your fridge to chew more power because it is struggling with the power it is currently getting?
Maybe someone that knows more about this stuff could chime in.
__________________
2016 Jayco Eagle HT 29.5BHDS (ordered 12/30/15, delivered 3/8/16)
2015 F-350 crew cab, short bed, 6.7L PSD, Pullrite Superglide 3300 hitch
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07-15-2016, 07:30 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: smithville, ont.
Posts: 2,677
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That's interesting. I know the fridge pretty much never shuts off when on inverter power. I've never paid attention on shore power. Wonder if this is why it runs so much.
The inverter runs my tv with no noise.
__________________
2016 North Point 341RLTS
520watts of solar. Morningstar MPPT
4 6volt 235ah Surrette batteries
2017 F-350 Platinum CC SRW
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07-15-2016, 07:56 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: kaml
Posts: 1,285
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I have the Xantrex Pro SW 2000 I installed in my trailer, it's a sine wave. The regular Pro series are MSW, not PSW.
I halready had a couple of 1000w MSW units sitting on the shelf but bought the PSW for TV/computer use.
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07-16-2016, 07:19 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Milford
Posts: 629
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Klassic - I'll be curious to hear if you find a significant difference between run time/power consumption on inverter vs shore.
__________________
2016 Jayco Eagle HT 29.5BHDS (ordered 12/30/15, delivered 3/8/16)
2015 F-350 crew cab, short bed, 6.7L PSD, Pullrite Superglide 3300 hitch
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07-16-2016, 11:30 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdash
When I look at that model on Xantrex's website, it looks like a Modified Sine Wave Inverter. I have read a bunch of times that refrigerator compressors shouldn't be run off Modified Sine Waves and should have Pure Sine Wave. I'm no Electrical Engineer (nor did I stay at Holiday Inn last night), so I am taking that advice at face value.
I did find this on google (because the internet is always right):
"In general, because the total harmonic distortion is higher in modified square wave inverters, motors will run hotter (less efficiently, consuming up to 30% more energy than with pure sine wave inverters), and likely not last as long."
Could it be causing your fridge to chew more power because it is struggling with the power it is currently getting?
Maybe someone that knows more about this stuff could chime in.
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Interesting thread. Our seismic came with a Xantrex Pro 1800. Modified sine...Also has the residential 23 cu ft fridge, a huge energy monster. We have always gotten thru the night with our 6 AGM batteries. Then I have to run the generator for awhile in the AM. I have 480 watt Zamp system on roof. It takes over and we our again fine for the day and night.
My issue is we have a stackable Whirlpool W/D, I can't get the washer to run off the generator, it is a 5500 watt Onan. Is that due to Modified Sine?? Please chime in............
We boondock almost 100%, this rig has 150 gal fresh water capacity and 90 gal Black plus 90 grey. Who needs to plug in?
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