Pulling a 5er with a tundra CrewMax

[wags999]

Civil cases is what I would be concerned with not a ticket. Knowingly over loading your vehicles capability could put you in jepordy. You would not want me on that jury.

[Big1]

So what did the OP decided?

[Cummins-a-pullin]

The op probably said screw it as 9 out of 10 post just bashed him for asking if he can turn. Is he over payload? No one actually knows as no one took it to the scales, yous are assuming he is(which he probably is, but still unknown). I also love how most everyone on here is a lawyer, I would love for one of the lawyers to post a link to any state that someone was held legally liable for being over the payload. I have yet to ever see it, or hear about it. I've been in the camping business my whole life, and not once ever heard someone be held legally accountable.

[Sergeum]

LOl...

The Court Of Public Opinion

[Mustang65]

I would like to know the % of trucks that are "OVER PAYLOAD" while towing. Based on what I see on the roads, there are a lot of them.

If a truck/TT are involved in an accident and if a person in the other vehicle is killed, the driver may be hit with a "Wrongful death suit", based on the truck/TT weight combination... that will cost a pretty penny.

Don

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[Packerbacker_TX]

Originally Posted by Wrascal

I just googled "payload of 2017 tundra TRD CrewMax", the answer was
2017 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro 5.7L V8 CrewMax/Payload 1,560 lbs"

That means without driver/passengers, fuel, cargo, etc ... you can only load an additional 1560 pounds. How much do you weigh? How about any passengers? Your fuel? And on and on and on. Subtract those weights and you'll arrive at your allowable 5th wheel pin weight (don't forget a hitch has significant weight too).

Bags and stronger tires may make you feel safer but it won't change the facts; to be legal (and safe) you need a tow vehicle with a much greater payload capacity.

I agree with Wrascal - You're buying a cool offroad short bed truck to haul a 5'r. It's basically the reverse with tow vehicles... 2WD, Diesel, long bed, higher gear ratio, minimal options = max payload and towing.

[Cdash]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

I would like to know the % of trucks that are "OVER PAYLOAD" while towing. Based on what I see on the roads, there are a lot of them.
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RVing with SOLAR

I agree with you and expect that that number is very high. I blame the power and reliability of the diesel engines that we have. There is no reason why a pickup needs 450hp and 950 ft-# of torque, but because we have it, it can pull anything hooked to it. Biggest offenders in my book are 3/4 tons with 45' fifths and toyhaulers.

Originally Posted by Mustang65

If a truck/TT are involved in an accident and if a person in the other vehicle is killed, the driver may be hit with a "Wrongful death suit", based on the truck/TT weight combination... that will cost a pretty penny.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

I understand when people say this, and with the knowledge that many of us have, we see it as "gross negligence", but do you really think that a lawyer could grasp this and take it across the goal line? Payload, GCWR, GVWR, are all technical terms and we see how many people come here confused trying to figure it out. How are they going to determine the weight of a trailer that has turned to splinters and spread (with it's contents) all over the highway?

Eagle HT half ton towable may put enough doubt in ones mind,

[goducks]

Originally Posted by Cdash

I agree with you and expect that that number is very high. I blame the power and reliability of the diesel engines that we have. There is no reason why a pickup needs 450hp and 950 ft-# of torque, but because we have it, it can pull anything hooked to it. Biggest offenders in my book are 3/4 tons with 45' fifths and toyhaulers.




I understand when people say this, and with the knowledge that many of us have, we see it as "gross negligence", but do you really think that a lawyer could grasp this and take it across the goal line? Payload, GCWR, GVWR, are all technical terms and we see how many people come here confused trying to figure it out. How are they going to determine the weight of a trailer that has turned to splinters and spread (with it's contents) all over the highway?

Eagle HT half ton towable may put enough doubt in ones mind,

Who says the trailers a splintered mess?
Simple scenario. You're towing overweight, you approach an intersection, you get distracted for a spit second, the car in front of you stops suddenly, you're overweight so you can't stop in time and you slam into the rear of the car in front of you. You maim or kill someone in the car. Only thing busted up is the front of your truck and the front of the 5th wheel. Everything's intact. Everything COULD be weighed.

Or

You come around a corner and traffic's stopped dead in it's tracks. You slam on the brakes but because you're overweight you can't stop in time and slam into two motorcycles sitting behind the stopped traffic. Your trailer would be hardly damaged. Maybe a tweaked pin or coupler.

Go ahead and justify towing overweight if it makes you feel better. But ask yourself this. Are those other guys towing overweight going to help you when you get sued in civil court for negligence?

[repacs0103]

Here we go again


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[highlife4me]

I find it amusing that everybody is so quick to bash guys pulling a 5er with a 1/2 because they might not be paying attention close enough and run people over with there rigs that are overloaded by a few hundred pounds. Whether your in a Prius or or a Tundra pulling a 5er, if your not paying attention you are still at fault.

Maybe we should start a thread about guys that drive big one ton crew cab diesels and pull 40' 5th wheels that are unable to navigate a red ryder around the block on the sidewalk let alone drive there rigs in the city or back their monstrosity onto a camping spot. These are the guys that worry me.

[Packerbacker_TX]

Please let's not go down that road. I think everyone knows the difference between what you're going to tow and what's legal. It's a matter of personal responsibility like anything else. Hopefully people will make the right decisions. We're just here to give them feedback on the topic at hand.

[goducks]

Originally Posted by highlife4me

I find it amusing that everybody is so quick to bash guys pulling a 5er with a 1/2 because they might not be paying attention close enough and run people over with there rigs that are overloaded by a few hundred pounds. Whether your in a Prius or or a Tundra pulling a 5er, if your not paying attention you are still at fault.

Maybe we should start a thread about guys that drive big one ton crew cab diesels and pull 40' 5th wheels that are unable to navigate a red ryder around the block on the sidewalk let alone drive there rigs in the city or back their monstrosity onto a camping spot. These are the guys that worry me.

The issue isn't what you're towing or towing with it's towing overweight period.
I find it amusing or rather ridiculous when people suggest others are okay to overweight because they see others doing it.
And last I knew you don't get to pick how you wreck.

[clubhouse]

Originally Posted by Cdash

I agree with you and expect that that number is very high. I blame the power and reliability of the diesel engines that we have. There is no reason why a pickup needs 450hp and 950 ft-# of torque, but because we have it, it can pull anything hooked to it. Biggest offenders in my book are 3/4 tons with 45' fifths and toyhaulers.

I have to agree, partially. I love huge HP or Torque, but also I think the diesel 250/2500 trucks are frequently towing very large and heavy RVs.

My Duramax with a 29QBH are getting very close to the limit. No idea how one with a 35'+ 5er and a family come up n under the limit.

[wags999]

Bottom line when your over by 50% or more...you put yourself, your family and everyone else on the road at risk.. Why? Cause you like a tundra... I love mine but would never want to tow anything heavier than I am...could it drag it down the road...hell yes...could it do it safely...sometimes....even with over sized brakes, tow package etc they do have a limit.. all the air bags or lifts won't change what the axel is rated for or what the brakes can handle over the long haul. And if you doubt this would be brought up in court you've never been on a jury or sat in a real court. People advertise as experts on every possible subject, and I guarantee there are tons of RV experts who have the credentials to testify why and how and how much, and engineers that can attest to the ratings of every bolt on your truck or RV. To me, it's not worth my family or my fellow American,...make a decision you want the RV you want or the truck you want...sorry can't have both. Seems to me to be pretty selfish to put others at risk when you KNOW it's not designed to handle what your doing. And I don't care about getting a ticket for overweight (and yes they do weigh rv at times, Ive seen it in Ca and in Az..) perhaps not all vehicles but if it's obvious ..well be ready it may happen.

[namusmc65]

Everyone have a nice day and lets go camping, get set up and have a cold one!

[Ottawasteve]

Originally Posted by goducks

Who says the trailers a splintered mess?
Simple scenario. You're towing overweight, you approach an intersection, you get distracted for a spit second, the car in front of you stops suddenly, you're overweight so you can't stop in time and you slam into the rear of the car in front of you. You maim or kill someone in the car. Only thing busted up is the front of your truck and the front of the 5th wheel. Everything's intact. Everything COULD be weighed.

Or

You come around a corner and traffic's stopped dead in it's tracks. You slam on the brakes but because you're overweight you can't stop in time and slam into two motorcycles sitting behind the stopped traffic. Your trailer would be hardly damaged. Maybe a tweaked pin or coupler.

Go ahead and justify towing overweight if it makes you feel better. But ask yourself this. Are those other guys towing overweight going to help you when you get sued in civil court for negligence?

Got news for you, in both of those situations, even if you are 80% underweight or not even towing, the result is going to be exactly the same and you are going to get sued for negligence in civil court. I would recommend going to law school if you wish to dispense legal advice, it might increase the accuracy.

Speed and distraction cause 1000 times plus more accidents and civil verdicts than overloaded Travel Trailers. There have been repeated invitations to provide a single link or verifiable reference to a court case (most court cases are now published online) where someone was found negligent/liable solely because of overloading their trailer in a non-commercial context. It would have to be proven that overloading was the cause of the accident or that the accident would not have occurred but for the overloading, which sometimes does happen with commercial haulers when a few thousand lbs overloading can be shown to influence stopping distances when travelling at high speed before the brakes are applied.

At the end of the day, whether you are distracted, speeding, overweight, sleeping and run into someone, you are probably going to be involved in a civil law suit.

Back to the OP, just because you saw a Tundra pulling the space shuttle, does not mean you are fine, I have it on good authority that Toyota knew they were exceeding the GCWR of the Tundra but they knew they would not have to make any sudden stops during the commercial. Verify your weights and capacities because that is the only way you can make an informed decision.

Don't rely on what you have seen being towed into the campgrounds or on the highway. I share Mustang's wonder of what percentage of TV's on the road are actually overweight. I am confident that if the weight police on this forum knew the true percentage overweight tow vehicles on the road, including the diesel 250/2500/350/3500 SRW's, it would cause a Power Stroke of massive proportions.

[goducks]

Originally Posted by Ottawasteve

Got news for you, in both of those situations, even if you are 80% underweight or not even towing, the result is going to be exactly the same and you are going to get sued for negligence in civil court. I would recommend going to law school if you wish to dispense legal advice, it might increase the accuracy.

Speed and distraction cause 1000 times plus more accidents and civil verdicts than overloaded Travel Trailers. There have been repeated invitations to provide a single link or verifiable reference to a court case (most court cases are now published online) where someone was found negligent/liable solely because of overloading their trailer in a non-commercial context. It would have to be proven that overloading was the cause of the accident or that the accident would not have occurred but for the overloading, which sometimes does happen with commercial haulers when a few thousand lbs overloading can be shown to influence stopping distances when travelling at high speed before the brakes are applied.

At the end of the day, whether you are distracted, speeding, overweight, sleeping and run into someone, you are probably going to be involved in a civil law sue.

You're assuming that a truck and trailer stops the same regardless of weight. Wrong.
I never said anything about being legally loaded and running into someone. No one will argue that I would be at fault if that happened. Why increase your chances for not stopping in time by adding more weight than your truck can handle. Me personally I would want to eliminate as many controllable factors as possible. That's just common sense.

[Cdash]

Originally Posted by Ottawasteve

Speed and distraction cause 1000 times plus more accidents and civil verdicts than overloaded Travel Trailers.

I suspect that it is more than 1000 times more likely.......

I am always intrigued on the different things that people focus on in the name of safety (especially outside the world of RV's). A lot of time and effort is focused on things that have a low probability of causing a problem while overlooking the high probability problems. Towing overweight (within reason) can be done safely as measured by getting from point A to point B without issue. In these cases, the risks of being overweight can be mitigated by reducing speed, allowing more room between vehicles, and general driving more cautiously.

Think of a heavy hauler. They don't go out and buy "super duper high capacity tractors" to tow really heavy permit loads. They use more axles on the trailers. They buy a permit from each state that allows an increase in the gross weight they can carry. This permit comes with restrictions, that generally require escorts, slower speeds and reduced operating hours. These restrictions help mitigate risks of being so heavy.

I'd be curious to know how many people that are extremely conservative with weight ratings in the name of safety have other distractions in the cab. Little dogs in their laps, phones within sight, driving tired, snacking, etc. Those are the things that are proven to be the most troublesome and cause most accidents. Most of those are darn easy to control, but for some reason, many do not.

[goducks]

Towing overweight is all good till it isn't.

[repacs0103]

Originally Posted by Cdash

I suspect that it is more than 1000 times more likely.......



I am always intrigued on the different things that people focus on in the name of safety (especially outside the world of RV's). A lot of time and effort is focused on things that have a low probability of causing a problem while overlooking the high probability problems. Towing overweight (within reason) can be done safely as measured by getting from point A to point B without issue. In these cases, the risks of being overweight can be mitigated by reducing speed, allowing more room between vehicles, and general driving more cautiously.



Think of a heavy hauler. They don't go out and buy "super duper high capacity tractors" to tow really heavy permit loads. They use more axles on the trailers. They buy a permit from each state that allows an increase in the gross weight they can carry. This permit comes with restrictions, that generally require escorts, slower speeds and reduced operating hours. These restrictions help mitigate risks of being so heavy.



I'd be curious to know how many people that are extremely conservative with weight ratings in the name of safety have other distractions in the cab. Little dogs in their laps, phones within sight, driving tired, snacking, etc. Those are the things that are proven to be the most troublesome and cause most accidents. Most of those are darn easy to control, but for some reason, many do not.

100% accurate. I'll take an aware driver pulling overweight all day compared to a 65+ year old pulling a TT at 55 mph on the e-way while watching their rear view camera, TPMS, weather band radio etc. etc. because they're inexperienced and unsure of themselves.

There's 2 sides to every story. It's all the rage on this site to bash people for being over payload. If you're within your tow rating but over payload by a few hundred or even 1000 pounds there will be little to no ill effects on driving. Heck, payload only exists on passenger vehicles built since around 2002- it's nonexistent on upfitted commercial vehicles and prior to around that time the only published numbers for passenger vehicles were gvwr and axle ratings, which coincidentally are the only legally acceptable standards.

There's certainly a lot of vitriol here from a select few who seem to have a personal vendetta about the whole payload thing. How does it affect you? If I see an unsafe anything on the road I pass it or get passed by it and move on with my life without a second thought. The government tells us what We can and cannot do more than I like, We don't need an Internet forum meant to bring people together to do the same thing.

Live and let live and don't tread on me.


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