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Old 05-16-2016, 10:02 PM   #1
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The saga continues or It sucks!

Well my first thought it was a leaking valve on our month old fw and yes it does appear to be leaking from the kitchen grey tank. I have 3 tanks, black and 2 greys.

BUT less not blame it on the valve, that is the result Not the problem! The origin is a suction on the drain pipe between the valve and the outlet. It sucks! Where in the world is the suction coming from???

The suction occurs with or without empty tanks. The suction is enough to makes removing the outlet cover difficult to remove.

On a 3 week trip and am getting about a gallon of grey when I remove the outlet cover.

????
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:18 PM   #2
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That is weird...never heard of that before. You shouldn't have negative pressure in any of your tanks or drain lines. If anything, they should be pressure neutral due to the tank vents. I guess I could theoretically see where the vents are closed or blocked and pressure was building up in the tanks. Water would be at the bottom, and the trapped air would compress to the point where it would actually force the water out of the bottom of the tank into the drain lines.

Do you have vent stacks in the roof (one per tank), or do you have one of those new "air admittance valves"?

Negative pressure and positive pressure would both exert enough force on your drain cap to make it hard to open. Until you get it figured out, you may want to pick up one of those caps with the water hose connection on it...and carry a bucket to catch what comes out.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:37 PM   #3
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That is weird...never heard of that before. You shouldn't have negative pressure in any of your tanks or drain lines. If anything, they should be pressure neutral due to the tank vents. I guess I could theoretically see where the vents are closed or blocked and pressure was building up in the tanks. Water would be at the bottom, and the trapped air would compress to the point where it would actually force the water out of the bottom of the tank into the drain lines.

Do you have vent stacks in the roof (one per tank), or do you have one of those new "air admittance valves"?

Negative pressure and positive pressure would both exert enough force on your drain cap to make it hard to open. Until you get it figured out, you may want to pick up one of those caps with the water hose connection on it...and carry a bucket to catch what comes out.
WEIRD is right!

I don't have any vent stacks on the roof, I do have a air admittance valve on the kitchen grey tank side. The valve is about 18 in from the sink drain. Which is an open drain. That said should make no diff as the suction is on the other side of the valve. If anything the tank side would generate gas causing a positive pressure.

Am really stumped...
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Old 05-17-2016, 05:42 AM   #4
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WEIRD is right!

I don't have any vent stacks on the roof, I do have a air admittance valve on the kitchen grey tank side. The valve is about 18 in from the sink drain. Which is an open drain. That said should make no diff as the suction is on the other side of the valve. If anything the tank side would generate gas causing a positive pressure.

Am really stumped...
Don, your saying on your roof there are No Vent stacks? I only have 1 bathroom, but I think I have 3 vents on my roof!

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Old 05-17-2016, 05:49 AM   #5
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My pipe cap is hard to turn but comes right off. I do get a few drops of water but I did on previous campers also.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:07 AM   #6
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Well my first thought it was a leaking valve on our month old fw and yes it does appear to be leaking from the kitchen grey tank. I have 3 tanks, black and 2 greys.

BUT less not blame it on the valve, that is the result Not the problem! The origin is a suction on the drain pipe between the valve and the outlet. It sucks! Where in the world is the suction coming from???

The suction occurs with or without empty tanks. The suction is enough to makes removing the outlet cover difficult to remove.

On a 3 week trip and am getting about a gallon of grey when I remove the outlet cover.

????
I am fighting this exact same issue on my 2015 345BHTS. I have had it to the dealer once and they told me they replaced the valves and can't reproduce my problem. I did notice last week on my outdoor kitchen grey tank that I had to literally wrestle the cap off and when I pulled the valve nothing came out. I accidentally left the valve and cap off and hooked to my main front valve ( I have 3 for some reason:scratched: ) pulled the front black and water came rushing out the back grey valve. I have taken pictures and videos of this as when I undo my main valve water comes pouring out. This is getting really frustrating for me as I took it to them last fall and they had the unit for 3 months and assured me they fixed this issue.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:43 AM   #7
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If you have washer/dryer prep you probably have a seperate grey tank for that.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:07 AM   #8
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I had this problem in my previous 5er (not a Jayco) and had to travel with one of the roof vents open in order to relieve the pressure. Otherwise it would pull water out of the drain lines into the sinks.
The other issue of a gallon of water coming out of the drain line after the cap is removed can be resolved by installing one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T58-T...shut+off+valve
I hope I understand your problems correctly.
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:48 AM   #9
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All, will get on roof after breakfast and look for roof vents, there is one under kitch sink.

No on washer dryer prep.

All 3 waste tanks drain to central pipe.

Def a suction, seems to be only while driving. Have drove about 30 min on highway this am. Will check, post laters.

Right now just standing on a corner in Winslow AZ...Vegas today.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:37 AM   #10
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If it's a suction, it may also be due to the thermal expansion and contraction of the tanks. If the tanks get hot, the air will expand and expand the tanks. When the tanks cool, the air inside will condense and create a vacuum.

I don't know if that's what's happening, but I suspect it's because of the fancy plumbing being put in rigs these days---specifically the air admittance valve. They're nice for not having to put a vent pipe through the roof, but's that's about it. They're mechanical and need to be replaced when they fail. Of course, they're also in the most convenient location to do so.

The easiest solution is probably what Troutslayer pushed your way--a separate add-on valve at the end of your drain line. I use one just like it.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:26 PM   #11
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Believe there are 3 vents on roof...small black chili bowl thing?

Checked after breakfast and had about a pint of grey water one heck of a vacuum. Drove another 200 miles, vacuum no water.

Stopped in at camping world here in Vegas and bought end cap with hose attachment. Will loosen hose cap and see if vacuum and grey water return. Will post results when I begin trip back next week.

Thanks to all.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:55 PM   #12
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I guess I am somewhat baffled by this thread.
Reading it sounds like the cap on the gray water tank is held on very tight and once removed, the vacuum is so strong that it is actually holding many gallons of water in the tanks, even with the drain valve open. Like holding your finger over a straw.
Am I understanding this correctly? Is there some reason that this monster vacuum would not simply pull the water from the traps in the various sinks?
Feel free to clarify and/or explain the physics of this problem.
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:49 PM   #13
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I guess I am somewhat baffled by this thread.
Reading it sounds like the cap on the gray water tank is held on very tight and once removed, the vacuum is so strong that it is actually holding many gallons of water in the tanks, even with the drain valve open. Like holding your finger over a straw.
Am I understanding this correctly? Is there some reason that this monster vacuum would not simply pull the water from the traps in the various sinks?
Feel free to clarify and/or explain the physics of this problem.
3 tanks 1 black 2 grey

3 drain valves

3 drain pipes into 1 drain pipe

3 Valves are closed for travel

Main drain is capped for travel

In travel mode the drain side only develops a strong vacuum that appears to pull grey water past the kitchen valve

Main drain cap difficult to remove due to negative pressure suck, open and anywhere from a pint to a quart of grey blows out

?? Where does the suction come from...it's on the drain side of the tanks, between the tank drain valve and the outlet cap? Why, how?
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Old 05-29-2016, 06:34 AM   #14
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Any updates on this issue? When I arrived at my campsite Thursday, after only a 1 hour tow, I opened my drain cap to install the hose & about a quart of water came out. 1st time it's happen to me.

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Old 05-29-2016, 06:49 AM   #15
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Depending on the unit the pipe from the GW valve to the sewer connection can be over 8ft long. If it has any kind of a dip which holds water, after bouncing down the road, that water will be at the cap.

I have that on our Pinnacle and I have caps with the garden hose connection and open that first while holding the sewer hose under it.
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Old 05-29-2016, 07:00 AM   #16
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Man some strange things happening!
I agree w/ Grumpy that hopefully it's just a low point problem allow the leftovers to get to the opening.

Never had that problem or even heard of it.
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:36 AM   #17
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I'm wondering if leaving the cap off would stop this while traveling? I don't see an issue, as long as all tanks are drained before leaving. I guess you could strap of cap off using some Velcro until you get to your next site.

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Old 05-29-2016, 09:20 AM   #18
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Update!

We are going into week 3 on the road. The amount of gw seems to decrease as you let it out, but then I also usually dump tanks before I leave. I buy an end cap with the hose connection and drov with that loose thinking that no suction no gw...wrong! So now I travel with the hose cap off and let the pint of gw just drip out. I personally don't like that but see no other solution and its better than rolling into camp and dropping it on the ground there.

My guess is this will never get resolved. I expect my dealer and Jayco will do little.
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Old 05-29-2016, 09:21 AM   #19
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I always have at least a pint of grey in my pipe when I pull the cap off ... if it was black tank water I would be more concerned lol
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Old 05-29-2016, 10:24 AM   #20
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I always have at least a pint of grey in my pipe when I pull the cap off ... if it was black tank water I would be more concerned lol
That is my worry, it the black tank leakage next?
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