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Old 07-29-2012, 08:32 PM   #1
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Very strange electrical issue . . . HELP!

'08 299RLS 5er. In a nut shell, we were camping this weekend for the first time all year and noticed that all lights, water pump, fridge, furnace, etc worked fine when the generator was running. But did not work right just on battery power.
You turn on a light and the LP alarm would tweet! Then the light might come on slowly (like a rheostat) or maybe not come on at all. Anything you tried to turn on would tweet the LP alarm and may or may not come on.
YET! The batteries had 12.8V when tested with a multi tester both when connected or when ground lead removed!
It's as if the 12V coming out of the converter was powering everything properly, but the batteries (even completely charged) would not!?
Is it a bad converter? Or what?!
Never had any issue before this weekend.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:47 AM   #2
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Very likely a poor connection some where. Start with the battery terminals. Look for corrosion. Check the ground from the battery to the frame. Then check the fuse holders. Particularly the main 12V battery fuse in the converter. If everything works OK when connected to shore power/generator your converter and DC distribution should be OK. Assuming the battery is, in fact, fully charged as you say, the problem is going to be between the battery and the converter.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:49 AM   #3
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dig4gold-- Did you put your meter on the battery when on battery power, you can get a good reading from a dead bat with out a load the true test comes when loaded. Good luck Larry
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:12 AM   #4
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I tested the batteries (we use 2) both connected (under load) and disconnected (removed ground lug). Both readings were 12.5V or more.
Also tested them while gen was running and they were getting over 13V.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:32 AM   #5
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Where would the ground connect to frame? The wire goes into the wall & Idunno? All connections are tight and pristine. We have very little corrosion in our dry climate.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:31 AM   #6
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What colors are the battery cables... If they are BLACK and WHITE then the BLACK goes to the POSITIVE TERMINAL of the BATTERY and the WHITE goes to NEGATIVE terminal of the battery.

If the COLORS are RED and BLACK then the RED goes to the POSITIVE Terminal of the BATTERY and the BLACK goes to the NEGATIVE side of the battery.

The BEST WAY is to hand trace the cable that is connected to the BATTERY TERMINAL that is stamped "NEG" or "-" symbol and make sure it goes to the trailer FRAME GROUND but you have stated you can't see where the cable goes to. Once you get it hooked up correctly I would use RED fingernail polish on the both the POSITIVE Battery Terminal and the correct BATTERY CABLE to remind you where it goes.

If you got them reversed and the battery terminal sparked when you hooked it up then you will have three blown fuses inside.

Two FUSES will be blown on the Power Distribution Panel where all your 12VDC fuses are loacted. Two fuses will be off to them selves and they will be blown. They are marked "REV POLARITY" or something like that. There will also be an IN-LINE FUSE that will be installed in the POSITIVE BATTERY cable lead usually real close to the battery. It could also be just up under the frame of the trailer tongue.

Need to check the cables colors and get them on the correct battery terminals, then replace the blown fuses and then you should be good to go.

Just for your info both the battery and the converter/charger unit provides 12VDC to the Power Distribution Panel so that you can have ceiling lights etc when you are camping off the power grid. If your lights are working when plugged into 120VAC but not working off the batteries then you converter/charger unit is good. It is not getting 12VDC from the battery circuit for one reason or another.

Those three fuses i described are in the circuit between the power distribution panel and the battery terminals.

No harm has been done with the wiring or anything if they the cables were reversed - only blows the three fuses described.

Happens to all of us one time or another...
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:41 AM   #7
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You did say both batteries were 12VDC batteries and not two 6V batteries where they have to be connected in series to get 12VDC???
If they are two 6VDC batteries they are connected up differently...
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I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:14 AM   #8
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I know . . . black/white, +/- . . . and all connections are right and tight. I used a silver Sharpie and wrote "+" on the black wire(!) They are 2 12V batt's in parallel. I'll just have to crawl around underneath and find where the ground wire connects to the frame.
It is a 4 season unit but the frame is exposed. Hopefully they put it near the battery compartment! Sounds like all you guys are leaning towards a loose ground off the batteries. At least the converter seems O.K.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:51 PM   #9
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Well - It has to be somewhere between the battery and the converter/charger.. The Black Large cable on your Batterry comes directly from the Converter/charger...

If that black cable is hooked and a connection is made then another way to tell if converter is working is to measure the Battery voltage first with the Shore Power Disconnected. Using the digital meter your battery volatge should read somewhere around 12.5-12.6VDC if the battery is charged ok. Then go plug in your shore power cable and when the converter/charger unit comes on then your DC Voltage reading at the battery terminals should jump to 13.6VDC.

That would tell you ALL of the fuses between the Converter and the battery are good...

You will find it sooner or later... Keep plugging away...

Another thing I always do when measuring Battery voltage is first put my meter on the battery terminal cable not the center of the battery post. This then will tell me I have a good connection between the battery terminal and the center post. Since you probably have only the ring terminals showing then put the meter tip on the ring terminal not the battery stud.

Some trailers have a battery disconnect switch - I assume you dont have one...

You can also remove the front panel of the Converter/Charger unit and expose the battery connection. This will be the other end of the cable that is connected to your battery.

Hard to believe a mouse will eat thru that big cable...

I guess you actually have located the two fuses in the Power Distribution Panel that is MARKED "REV POLARITY" they could be blown. Also you need to locate the INLINE fuse near your battery and check it. All three of these fuses are between the Converter and the Battery terminal. Need to put your finger on ALL hree of these fuses and get back that you found them...

We are all just throwing things out at you... haha... Hard to work on something you can touch youself...

When you finally figure it out then it wont be a problem for you anymore. And the bad thing is it will be something real simple when you finally find the problem. Its usually is the last thing you did before you had this problem haha...

My fifth wheel battery has the cables on it coming from the converter/charger unit, cables coming from the slides mounted to those small circuit breakers, and more cables coming from the main jacks. I have a whole bunch of cables around my single 12VDC battery.
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I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:24 PM   #10
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ALL fuses are good. Fuse box, fuses on converter, fuse in battery compartment. I did a continuity check and the black battery wire does not connect to the black wire connected to the converter. NO CONTINUITY. Our assumtion was the battery cables come from the fuse panel and not the converter. In other words the fuse panel is in between the battery and the converter and that maybe there's some relay or something prohibiting 12V flow from batteries to camper.
But you know what happens when you assume too much . . .(lol). I tried so many things in different configurations that I'm not sure exactly what is what. Getting away from it for a day or so and then tackling it again with a fresher outlook!
I don't remember any fuses being labeled "REV POLARITY" in the fuse panel.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:40 PM   #11
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Send the model number of the converter/charger and Power Distribution center unit where all the fuses are. Myabe I can pull out a photo of it on google images... It has to have these fuses. They usually are two fuse sitting off themselves on the fuse panel.
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Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:55 PM   #12
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Now I am assuming things... Your trailer is 2008 JAYCO EAGLE 2008 299RLS... Is this your Converter/Charger chassis below the fridge in this photo. If so need the model number. The top panel shown here may be the Power Distribution Panel where the circuit breakers and fuses are located and the Bottom compartment shown may be the converter/charger unit.


photo from google images
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Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:31 PM   #13
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Is the Power distribution panel the 12V fuse panel? I don't see fuses marked "REV POLARITY". Jayco sent me 12V and 120V schematocs today . . . wish I could read them better!!
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:50 PM   #14
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In the photo above there is two black looking panels near the floor just below the fridge door, Can you give me model numbers of these two items... I suspect the top larger panel is your Power Distribution Panel where all your 120VAC circuit breakers and 12VDC fuses are located. The smaller panel nearest the floor may be your converter/charger chassis. It would be very helpfull if you could locate the model numbers of these two items.

Some converter/charger chassis has the REV POLARIY located on the panel. It will be two fuses right next to each other. I think you indicated you did find a couple of fuses on the converter/charger chassis. I could confirm that if I knew what your model number is for the bottom chassis.

The wiring diagram you have should be fairly easy to locate the battery and then just follow the POSITIVE wiring back to the converter/charger chassis. It should almost be a direct wiring with only going through one IN-LINE Fuse assy. It should be larger BLACK cable. If you have separated panels with one being the Power Distribution Panel where the circuit breaker and 12VDC fuses are located and then right below is another separate converter/charger chassis then I suspect you may have a MAGNETEK model converter.

I am just plugging in the dark here - these two black looking panels maybe something else entirely different. I may not even be looking at the correct trailer as well... Need some confirmations here...
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Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:41 PM   #15
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No. The converter is behind the panel in the large storage compartment near the front.
These below the fridge are (top) 120V breaker panel, and the bottom one is the 12V fuse panel.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:00 PM   #16
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Click image for larger version

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This what one of the pages looks like. They are all very similar. The only differences reflect different camper features.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:26 PM   #17
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The converter is a Inteli-Power PD9280. I tested it and it is putting out over 13VDC. Seems good.

I might add . . . we leave our comper in the mountains so it's not nearby to work on or check things. Going up Friday though.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:48 AM   #18
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The 12V Wiring Diagrams are sure a bummer for me as well... Forget them haha... I suspect on the PD9280 Converter/charger unit is a DUAL ALLEN SCREW DOWN port marked + BAT. One of those ports has to go directly to the battery bank and will be a LARGE BLACK wire. The other PORT of this same group will go to the FUSE PANEL near the floor under the fridge.

The PD9280 and the BATTERY both have to feed the 12VDC FUSE panel so that your 12VDC Appliances including the ceiling lights will work off of SHORE POWER or the BATTERY. That DUAL +BAT ALLEN LOCK port is suspect not being tight maybe. Both ports should be locked down pretty tight.

Not being where your trailer is located at sure is a bummer for you. I'm probably not going to be much help for you as by the time we make a few comments I forget who is on first when the replies come back haha... One trick with using a multimeter making measurements is if you have the shore power cable disconnected then the the multimeter will just read the BATTERY +12VDC source which should read +12.5 or 12.6VDC.

If you have the Shore Power turned on the the 12VDC side of the PD9280 will read 13.6VDC as this is the normal output DC voltage.

You are just going to have to shut off the shore power and start at the battery where you read +12.5/6 VDC and then go to the PD9280 +BATT TERMINALS and see if you still read +12.5/6 VDC.. It has to be on one of those DUAL ports marked + BAT or something like that.

If you dot read the 12.5/6VDC then you have to start tracing the large BLACK BATTERY cable back towards the Battery and see where you find the +12/5/6VDC again. It will go through an IN-FUSE close to the battery somewhere along this cable path.

Obviously the DUAL PORT cables on the PD9280 marked +BAT is feeding the 12V FUSE PANEL OK as the ceiling lights work when you are on shore power. The OUTPUT of the PD9280 should read +13.6VDC and this DC voltage has to go to the +12VDC FUSE PANEL under the fridge and also go to the Installed Battery going through an IN-LINE fuse. So this could be another way to test where you losing things... With the Shore power "ON" you should read +13.6VDC on both sides of the IN-LINE FUSE. This then goes directly to the BATTERY POS "+" Terminal.

Maybe it would be useful to US out here in the cold to take a PHOTO of the BATTERY connections using your cell-phone camera and let us look at what all is connected to the POS "+" and NEG"-" terminals. Might give us a clue.

What seems like simple things to test for sure doesn"t always work out that especially when you have to do it long distance like this hehe...

SO two things to do next... Turn OFF SHORE POWER and see how far away from the BATTERY "+" terminal you can still find +12.5/6VDC using your digital multimeter. It has to make it to one side of the IN-LINE FUSE and then go all the way to one of the DUAL PORTS of the PD9280 Converter/Charger marked + BATT. From the other port of the DUAL PORT marked "+" Batt the 12.5/6VDC has to go directly to the +12VDC FUSE PANEL under the fridge. If you get lost from the get-go you come the other direction if you like and turn on SHORE POWER and you should read +13.6VDC at the DUAL PORTS of the PD9280 converter/charger unit. One of the DuAL PORTS goes to the +12VDC FUSE PANEL under the fridge and the other side of the DuAL PORT of the PD9280 goes to the IN-FUSE close to the battery bank. Then if that fuse is good it will continue on the the POS "+" terminal of the battery bank. Sounds so simple huh????? yeal sure....

Let us all know what you find on next trip to the mountains... We surely feel your pain from this end... The bad thing is when you find it it is going to be something so simple that you will cuss out loud haha... Like what is this BLACK wire near the battery bank laying on the floor not hooked to anything go to...

Good luck with your tracking wires...
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Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:17 AM   #19
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I forgot to pass along the REVERSE POLARITY FUSES I have been referring to are located on the PD9280. There is three fuses side by side between the FAN and the ALLEN LOCK DOWN connectors and two of those are the REV POLARITY FUSES. SInce your 12VDC FUSE PANEL is working with Shore Power being connected I dont think this is your problem but look at them real close to make sure all FUSES on the PD9280 are good.

Once again be sure to check the ALLEN WRENCH tightness of the two LUGS marked POS "+". The one going to the battery bank may be the loose one.



Im also showing this larger photo of the PD9260C which has the same setup but maybe you can see the fuses and terminals better

photo from google images

http://www.americanrvcompany.com/ass...9200Series.pdf

http://www.progressivedyn.com/converter_install.html

Be sure to take along the correct size ALLEN TEE wrench shown in the PD9200 instruction/install manual
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Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:52 PM   #20
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My fingers are crossed as I am knocking on wood!! The fuses on the converter are fine. Battery connections are black to the 2 POS+, and white to the 2 NEG-'s. The inline fuse is good.
The DUAL PORT cables on the PD9280 marked +BAT were very tight. I thought I was about to snap my allen wrench before they loosened. My PD9280 is configured a little differently, but all the components are the same.
Thanks for your help. "On-line" repairs are a bugger to say the least.
I'll post my weekend repair results.
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