2012QBW Towing Question

shane.kelly55 · 09-18-2016, 01:40 PM

Hey Gang,

Total noob here but during the Dallas RV show this weekend i put a deposit down on a 212QBW. I am towing using a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 gasser with a towing capacity of 6200 lbs.

The Trailer comes in at 4250 dry and i'll be adding some stuff to her like camping supplies, clothes etc. I figure that would add another 250 lbs. Of course there will be the batteries, propane and water. Throw in another 400 for that.

The JGC has a payload of 1270 lbs. When i figure in some gear, 2 1/2 people i get to about 700 lbs leaving me with about 550 in tongue weight.

I really dont know what i am talking about but i think that leaves me with about 5000 lbs in trailer? I dont want to push it too much but i love this trailer.

I have the option of getting the 195rb which would be an easier fit.

Any advice on whether i should get the 212QBW? Any owners out there with this trailer and my JGC? I'm a little nervous.

Cheers....

Shane

RedHorse1 · 09-18-2016, 03:58 PM

I can't offer any advice specific to your TV but our first was an HTT that weighed about 4800# and was 600# on the tongue. Our TV had a max trailer weight of about 8500#. I expected our combined rig to be an excellent match. My surprise was that we were about 200# below the Rear GAWR, with an extra couple in the back seat I'm pretty sure we were over the rear axle max. Due to that I've become a bit OCD about weights.
I'd suggest a visit to a CAT Scale will give you an idea how much cargo (people, fuel, gear and tongue weight) you can add to the TV.
I can't say with any authority but I'd guess you may be over weight.
There is a sticky that details using the scales and interpreting the results.
The CAT Scale is your friend.

DebKen · 09-18-2016, 04:12 PM

We towed our 2015 19RD that weighs under 4000 pounds empty with a V6 engine that had a 6000 pound tow rating. It was very uncomfortable to tow with. We only towed it home from the dealer with that SUV so it really was empty at the time. We traded the vehicle in on our current one which has a V8 and a tow rating of 7500 pounds. Of course now the TT is full of stuff and we sometimes bring our own wood. It is much better!!

shane.kelly55 · 09-18-2016, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebKen

We towed our 2015 19RD that weighs under 4000 pounds empty with a V6 engine that had a 6000 pound tow rating. It was very uncomfortable to tow with. We only towed it home from the dealer with that SUV so it really was empty at the time. We traded the vehicle in on our current one which has a V8 and a tow rating of 7500 pounds. Of course now the TT is full of stuff and we sometimes bring our own wood. It is much better!!

Can i ask what your tow vehicle was that had the 6k tow rating?

Seems weird it can tow 6400 but in reality its really half that.

DebKen · 09-18-2016, 06:21 PM

Our first SUV was a 2008 Nissan Pathfinder. Our TT has an unloaded vehicle weight of 3715 with a GVWR of 6000 pounds. Of course the TT weighed more on that first trip because of the full propane tanks and the hitch is 435 pounds. But we could tell it was back there, especially on hills. The Chrysler Aspen doesn't struggle.

suzhou · 09-18-2016, 10:30 PM

Not sure where you are getting your numbers for the TV but, I just went through an expensive TV upgrade because I simply followed the Ford web site posted numbers (very hard to really follow or pin down btw) vs reading the sticker on the inside of the driver door panel. Learned that my truck payload capacity was far less than what I had interpreted from the Ford web site. I had a noticeable front end drift problem since I was a bit over the payload capacity. Towing capacity was well within specs. Net - suggest you read the sticker since, as I have been told, that number is for your specific vehicle and may be very different than than the mfg standard numbers and charts. Most people don't consider the payload capacity and focus on the towing capacity only, so good thing you are. I believe you can assume the tongue weight to be about 12-15% of the trailer weight. Mine was and all I have read says that's what it should be.

troutcamper · 09-19-2016, 09:29 AM

I have a 212QBW. Our TV is a 2007 Ford Expedtion 5.4 v8
I would not want to pull it with a V6. we are frequent campers to the NC mountains. I just don't see it being a good match up.
troutcamper

bankr63 · 09-19-2016, 10:46 AM

So you don't have the TT yet, making a visit to the CAT scales problematic. On paper it looks like you should be able to tow this combo, but I usually find the most important number in defining that to be the one on the door frame that states:
"The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed" xxxx Lbs"

Note that you do not have to include gasoline in the equation, the SAE standard accounts for a full tank.

IMO you are probably light in your TT cargo weight, but lets assume a loaded weight of 5000 lbs. Assume a tongue weight of about 15% or 750 lbs. Now subtract that from the number on YOUR door sticker, not what the boys at FCA put on their website; every car is different and the door sticker is specific to your exact vehicle with your exact options.

Okay, with that number, do you have enough comfortably left over for your passengers and in vehicle cargo? Keep in mind though that cargo can be relocated back to the TT (assuming you have capacity); if you do that only about 15% will be in the TV. Ex: 100 lbs of wood removed from the TV and moved to the TT will drop the in vehicle cargo 100 lbs, but raise tongue weight by 15 lbs (approx.).

We tow a similar weight trailer with a similar class vehicle with absolutely no problem. With a well adjusted WDH and anti-sway, the combo is stable and tows well. The only weight we worry about now is the Rear GAWR - I am pretty much right on the limit, but you can't really calculate that until you have the TT purchased and at the CAT scales. You can kind of guess by figuring about where the weight will land relative to the axles, but that would be big guess. Note, your GAWR Front and Rear are on the other door sticker:

shane.kelly55 · 09-20-2016, 10:50 AM

Wow this is great information.

And youre right. Right now i am thinking if we use the TT as the main cargo hold, we will move our payload to the TT freeing up some on the TV.

Also, Mopar offers a heavier Radiator and i think i'm gonna buy. I may install a transmission cooler as well. Lastly, of course i'll have a WDH with Sway control.

And youre right. Website says 1270 but the sticker only says 1050. at 750 lbs (15%) i am 210 and my gf is 130 and my dog is 27. I would need to limit the cargo on the TT in a big way. 5000 lbs aint gonna cut it.

Questions:

1. For this setup, what WDH do you recommend? Its a safety issue so i'm less concerned with money (to a degree).

2. For the TT weight, i have the 4250 dry plus the clothes and food etc. Do i need to include the propane, batteries etc or is that part of the standard 4250 from the manufacturer? I would not be able to carry water for sure.

Again, i could choose the 195RB and all this goes away @ 3000lbs.

I'm just not sure what to do....

bankr63 · 09-20-2016, 11:28 AM

Looking at the specs, the 195RB does seem to be a better match for your TV. You have pretty much zero CCC left in your TV once the trailer is hitched and the 3 of you are onboard with 212QBW. Also, that TT sits higher than my Jay Feather hybrid, so I expect you might have a lot more wind resistance with that much face to the wind. OTOH, even though your JGC has less payload than my Traverse, it has a higher tow rating, so perhaps the drivetrain is up for it. It might be just workable, but you are very close to the limits.

The biggest issue with the 195RB (which I'm guessing is a single axle) is the capacity for the TT. We specifically went with the lightest double axle TT we could find (with a floor plan we liked), to get a sufficient CCC since we have a lot of gear. We bring bikes, kayaks and lots of other goodies along, and the limited CCC of a single axle wouldn't cut it.

Yes to the transmission cooler. Rad is a probably a good idea with the Texas heat too.

Most everyone on here will steer you to the Equal-i-zer WDH, but IMO, a simple standard round bar or trunnion bar hitch with light weight range bars will do fine on a smaller trailer like this. If I was up in the 30ft range, I might think differently.

The brochure dry weight for the trailer is going to be a "stripped down" weight with no extras. You are better to look at the yellow sticker on the side of an actual unit with options like you will carry. The sticker weight does include propane, batteries, and all factory options, but no water.

shane.kelly55 · 09-20-2016, 11:36 AM

Wow. more fantastic information. This is great.

i think i agree with you on all fronts. I'll hook up the 212 when i get to the dealer but i think the 19 is gonna be it.

Generally speaking, how much does the normal TT cargo weights go when camping beyond the Dry Weight? I am thinking: clothes, dishes, cookware, TV, some tools, camp chairs, food and of course beer. How heavy could that stuff really be?

Just trying to gauge how far past 4250 i would go in a normal Travel Trailer camping situation. A tough question i know.

Subaru297 · 09-20-2016, 11:52 AM

Typical weight added for a family is 1000lbs. Without kids and packing lightly you will probably load around 600lbs.....

That is just a wild arse guess though.

You should look into the Anderson weight distribution hitch as well. It is more compact and lighter than the other WDH out there and "should" work well for a short wheelbase vehicle and smallish trailer.

bankr63 · 09-20-2016, 11:53 AM

Not that hard, I have those numbers from a couple of passes at the CAT scale. Our load is about 950-1200 lbs over the dry weight; but we do have a fairly "rich" camping kit. Major items we carry:
External BBQ
External Stove
4 Camp chairs
2 aluminum camp tables (1 lg, 1 sm)
Kayak gear (but kayaks themselves count on the TV not the TT)
Tool kit (20 lbs approx.)
2" hitch carrier bracket and bicycles
Cooking gear
Food (full fridge usually, including beer and wine)
Clothing/Linens
Power cords, water and waste hoses, propane hoses, fire utensils (4 bins in the external storage)

mike837go · 09-20-2016, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shane.kelly55

Hey Gang,

Total noob here but during the Dallas RV show this weekend i put a deposit down on a 212QBW. I am towing using a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 gasser with a towing capacity of 6200 lbs.

The Trailer comes in at 4250 dry and i'll be adding some stuff to her like camping supplies, clothes etc. I figure that would add another 250 lbs. Of course there will be the batteries, propane and water. Throw in another 400 for that....snip...

I am in the process of upgrading the tow from a 3.8L V6 Toyota Tacoma. My 19RD is in the same weight class as your 212QBW. The Taco was capable of pulling, but required a WDH to make the rig controllable.

So, I would suggest either a smaller trailer or a bigger tow. You'll be able to keep things within safe limits. But always looking for a bit more engine on the steep hills, a bit more stability when a tandem truck passes....

Gone campin · 09-20-2016, 05:56 PM

I think you would really be maxing the JGC totally out and would end up needing to upgrade to a bigger TV. That said, I would probably go ahead and try it if you could consider moving up to a bigger TV in the near future - my reasoning is that I would not want a single axle trailer. In my opinion, the towing difference between single and tandem is so great, that I would never own a single axle trailer.

We started with a V8 Tahoe with our 26BH (about 250# heavier and 75# tongue weight more than you are looking at). I was not happy with it because of the short wheelbase and 4 speed trans, but made due for a year until I was able to upgrade to a crew cab with a 6 speed. Something to think about...

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