A/C Generator Blues

[bjohnst0]

I recently purchased 2012 jay flight swift 264BH. I have used the AC in 30 amp shorepower sites twice. No Problem. Recently purchase pair of new Honda 2000i 's, set up ran in parallel, full power, eco off, no other acessories on, AC off. Gennies kick off upon AC start up. No problem when starting micowave and other accesories.
Is is possible that the 13,500 btu airxcel unit is drawing more than amps then necessary on start up. I had other individuals at the site start similar size units with less than the 4000 output. I had several people look at the start up process and could not figure out why the kick off with no accessories on at start up.

Everthing I was told is that the dual Honda's should provide plenty of power for the start up.

Should I have the dealer measure the out put? AC installation problem cause unusual surge?

I am new to TT world, but had larger boats in the past with similar set ups.

First things first, but I also could not operate the Norcold fridge on auto during the tow process. Only operated on gas at the site. Need opinions and seasoned guidance, another 100 degree day coming up.

Thanks,

Bob

[2edgesword]

http://www.hayesequipment.com/honda_...tage_guide.htm

According to above website I a 13,500 btu ac unit would require about 2,750 watts for start-up and 1,250 watts to run. Your generator set-up should be putting out more than enough juice to get the unit running. The 30 amp shore power would be putting out about 3,600 watts (P=I x E) and did start/run the unit. That would lead me to believe that the problem is with one or both of the generators or something amiss with the parallel hook-up.

[TX_Arvee]

Are you using the parallel cables simply hooked together and plugged into the Eu2000's recepticle or do you have a RV power kit for them?
If you simply are running with the parallel cables and plugged into the 115v outlet on one of the gens, then that is your problem.

The recepticles on the EU2000 is a 20amp 125v rated, this limits you to 20amps when plugged into one of these.
I see camping worlds "RV Kit" is simply the cables and a 30amp RV adapter for the onboard outlet. Not good.

You need this: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...3654_200333654
If you have this RV kit and it wont run your rig, then something is wrong with one of your Hondas.

•Parallel cords allow the user to obtain the full power of both units, limited by the capacity of an individual outlet. Parallel cords are available for the EU1000i, EU2000i, EU3000 Handi, and EU3000i.


•If you have 2 regular EU2000i, 2 EU3000 Handi, or 2 EU3000is, consider a parallel kit. The parallel kits include a built in 30A outlet (EU2000) or 50A outlet (EU3000), which is capable of providing the combined full power from both generators. Although the kit is more expensive than the parallel cords, it offers you more power from a single outlet.

•If you have a regular EU2000i and the Companion model, you only need a parallel cord. You will be able to use the 30A outlet on the Companion to draw the full combined power of the two units.

from Honda's site: http://powerequipment.honda.com/Cont...n-parallel.jpg

So with this, I am assuming you have 2 - EU2000i gensets and not a 2000i and a companion model. (http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...000i-companion)
So you need a 30amp kit to fully use your gensets output.

Until getting this info I was unaware Honda made a companion model...

[bjohnst0]

Hi, thanks for the info on the amps. I have the Honda parallel cords. See pix, Wise the gen dealer says hookup correct. Supposed they have not trouble with the Honda's. They are the biggest seller in the US.

I will keep you informed of what develops.

Bob

[TX_Arvee]

Interesting, as you should get a full 30amps from that set up. There is no way your unit is pulling 30 amps.
If you have acces to a power monitor like this http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...FcHPKgodZGBLFw
It will tell you what you are drawing from the circuit and if you watch it can tell the load when it trips.

I am really curious why this is happening, my Honda's have been work horses without fail.

[Hboy96]

Plugging a 30 amp adapter into a 15 amp outlet does not net you 30 amp service. While the parallel set can deliver 4000 watts it's getting choked at the 15 amp outlet on the generator. If I was you I'd try to return the parallel setup to whom ever told you this would work. Never go back there again, Order the stuff from Northern Tool as shown above.

Link to Honda's parallel link set up. Note it says max 15 amp output.

[wjfawb0]

I use two Yamaha 2000 inverter generators in parallel to run my X17Z trailer when I need AC. I can start the 13,500BTU AC unit fine with both in parallel, but if I try to run the microwave at the same time it will usually trip one of the generators. With your larger trailer, maybe you have something else drawing load that is putting your set over the edge? I wish I had bought a larger single unit some times, but it's nice in cooler weather to only run one for the fan and other electrics.

[TX_Arvee]

Hboy96, he has a companion model as well as a standard model, see his pic. and my link to Honda. It has a 30amp outlet built in that is active when teamed with a standard EU2000i in parallel. 26.6 amps is what it is supposed to be able to handle. (no need for the kit). The adapter they show on the website and in his pic is a twistlock to RV plug. I dont know why he is tripping the Genset, it should work.

If he would have shown he had two standard models I would agree with you.

[Hboy96]

Your right, looked to be an adapter plugged into the outlet at first glance. Good call!

[dmax_83]

Your setup should easily power your a/c unit as I use my honda 3k genset to run my 13.5k btu unit. I recently upgraded my starting capacitor to a Supco compressor hard start kit to ease the starting process, you might consider looking under your shroud to see if you camper came with one installed at the factory. Sometimes a/c units don't have them and if you don't I would definitely add one.

[tlhdoc]

Originally Posted by dmax_83

Your setup should easily power your a/c unit as I use my honda 3k genset to run my 13.5k btu unit. I recently upgraded my starting capacitor to a Supco compressor hard start kit to ease the starting process, you might consider looking under your shroud to see if you camper came with one installed at the factory. Sometimes a/c units don't have them and if you don't I would definitely add one.

What is involved in installing the kit?

[dmax_83]

It is extremely easy, heres how I did it. My a/c unit had a small start capacitor installed from the factory so I plugged in the camper and discharged the three existing capacitors (start, run, and fan). Once discharged I unplugged the camper and removed the two leads from the starting capacitor to the run capacitor and then plugged in the two leads from the larger replacement start capacitor. I made sure that all of them were secure and then closed up the access panel and put the shroud back on. Note: some a/c units do not have start capacitors and the run capacitor handles both starting and running, if this is the case in yours you can still add a start capacitor to help your generator and also prolong your compressors life.

[bjohnst0]

Hi, Sorry for the delay in the update. I returned the gennies to the dealer, tested no problem. Tried to start up A/C with no luck. Kicked the gennies off. The mfrg. never returned my e-mail for the A/C startup output. According to the Jayco Manual should be 15.75 -16.25AMPS. My parallel setup provides 33.4, should be plenty.

Next step is to go the dealer to check the output or have an upgraded startup capacitor installed.

Will keep you informed.

Bob

[bjohnst0]

Hi, update on A/C Start Up. The dealer informed my that the newer Coleman units have smaller start up capacitors. The Jayco manual says the 13,500 unit requires momentary start up of 15.75-16.25 Amps. The dealer says the new capacitor requires 2 1/2 times that, or around 38 amps to start up. Obviously this requires new capacitors as it exceeds the 33.4 provided on the parallel generators. I am installing new capacitors. The dealer explanation is that coleman is installing smaller capacitors to save money as they produce 20,000 units a year.

I have had a lot misinformation in the last two weeks, hopefully the new capacitors will do the job.

On last question from an electrical dufus, why does the unit start up on the shorepower 30 amp service? More amps than 30?

Bob

[TX_Arvee]

Your Honda's outlet is limited at 26.6a, if your A/C needs 28 it will trip the gens but start on the 30A shore power. Sounds like the dealer wasnt exaclty sure on the reguired amps saying they need 2 1/2 times more than 15.75-16.25. I would like to see the amp usage measured when connected to shore power. Too bad you dont have a power monitor or amp meter to read this. I bet it is needing over 26.6 but less than 30A...

[tnchuck100]

This definitely needs further investigation. I would contact a qualified electrician WITH the appropriate instruments to completely evaluate the current draw at AC start up. I agree, something is not right here. Something ain't right with the dealer explanation either. I ain't buying that.


I use the parallel Honda's on my rig. AC cycles just fine even when the generators are in the ECO mode. They jump (figuratively) when the AC comes on but handle the load just fine.

[Da Bud Man]

Originally Posted by tnchuck100

I use the parallel Honda's on my rig. AC cycles just fine even when the generators are in the ECO mode. They jump (figuratively) when the AC comes on but handle the load just fine.

Exactly the same here. I used mine non stop for 4 days in 100 degree heat last month with no issues whatsoever.

[Jeff61]

I would suggest that the 1st thing you should know when attempting this type of operation is to know what else have you got turned on to run on AC. Is the fridge and water heater on propane when you are trying to run off the genset? Don't think for a moment that you are going to run the AC and microwave at the same time on the genset. Any resistive loads( gas absorbtion refrigerators) is a constant load vs. motor load. When in doubt look at information on the appliance to determine wattage or amperage needed. Add them up DO THE MATH. Is your rated output sufficint for the loads?

By far the best money you will spend is for a plug in voltmeter (about $15) which you will plug in to a prominent AC outlet, never remove it, and look at it every single time you camp frequently so you know how much power( voltage) is available to you. Especially in the summer, when every other camper is using AC, if you cant maintain close to 110 vac, ideally 120vac be very very very careful or you will burn out your AC unit $$$$$$$$!!!!!!