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Old 05-08-2011, 10:25 AM   #1
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Air Bags

Greetings,

I have a question. We have a new 2010 29BHS JayflightG2 and 2010 RAM 1500 5.7 HEMI. Our truck has no problem towing the trailer but we notice that the rear end is still more than a bit down even when I use my EQ bars on the 5th rung. I do have a 800LBS hitch and EQ system. I could get a 1200LBS but for the cost of a new hitch and EQ system I could put in new airbags into the rear end.

I have thought about putting in Bridgestone Airbags into the back coil springs.

Thoughts? Comments? Experiences?

Thanks,

Rob
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:34 AM   #2
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Can you upgrade just the spring bars on the hitch to 1200 lbs, or would you need a whole new hitch? Some folks do use airbags to level out the truck, I have Timbrens which act as helpers when the truck squats to a certain point. But the truck still squats somewhat due to the heavy tongue weight of my TT until it rests on the Timbrens. I suspect airbags would be better at leveling. BTW welcome to the forum!
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:55 AM   #3
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Welcome to the Jayco Owners Forum Daedalus3!

Just our early experience with hitches and our 1/2 ton..... Our dealer ran out of the Equalizer and had to install a one sway bar Huskey system (1200lb) temporarily. We had to drive home with that system with our front end of tv higher and back lower than it should be, and sway probs from tt. We stopped to have the Huskey adjusted a couple of times on our trip back to Cali from Indiana. Still had sway probs. Found in the Huskey literature that with the length of tt, we should have two bars. In Cali, the dealer installed the Equalizer system. Front end of tv much lower and now just a rare sway in high gusty winds. Our rear end is still soft though, and a hitch dealer suggested we consider (bags?) adding something to the tv rear to make it more firm. Hope this helps
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:30 AM   #4
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I've got air bags on my truck and love them. I had them before the camper to help level the truck when pulling other trailers, or having a large load in the back. I've got the WD system set up correctly, but the truck still squats a bit in the rear, especially when I load it up with a weeks worth of camping supplies. The bags help level the truck back out so that everything is lined up correctly. I recommend them to anyone that does any kind of consistent hauling.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:36 AM   #5
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Some folks do use airbags to level out the truck, I have Timbrens which act as helpers when the truck squats to a certain point. But the truck still squats somewhat due to the heavy tongue weight of my TT until it rests on the Timbrens. I suspect airbags would be better at leveling. BTW welcome to the forum!
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I've got air bags on my truck and love them. .
I guess I will have to google Timbrens, but can you give us an idea how much those or airbags cost? Are they 'make specific' or will they fit any 1/2 ton ?

Also, what do you know about warranty for truck? We have a little over a year left on our F-150 warrranty, did adding bags to your truck void the suspension warranty?

Thanks
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:52 AM   #6
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Here's some things to focus on:

Rule 1 - Vehicle must be level or slightly high. Load up the rear of your Vehicle (with NO trailer connected) as if going on a normal camping trip. Firewood, peddle bikes, etc. etc in the rear. If your Vehicle's rear has SAG, then Air Bags, Timbrens or some other vehicle rear suspension product is needed. Always remember that a "loaded" vehicle must me level (or rear slightly high) BEFORE connecting a trailer to it. If it has sag, then its rear suspension must be beefed up.

Rule 2: If Vehicle's rear gets sag when trailer is connected, then "the trailer" is causing the vehicle's rear sag. To remove rear sag from connected tailer, attach a WDS (Weight Distribution System). The bars on the WBS are "sized" on a loaded trailer's SCALE tonque weight. If trailer's tonque is 900 lbs, then bars at 900-1000 lbs are needed. If trailer's tonque weight is 1100 lbs, then get 1000-1200 lbs.

Rule 3: If Vehicle's rear is level (before connecting a Trailer) and trailer's WDS is "sized" properly, then the WDS must be adjusted properly. Properly adjust the WDS settings (re: Ball Height & Spring bar tension adjustments) until proper Vehicle + Trailer "stance" is correct. For many, they like the front of their loaded trailer 2" lower - compared to its trailer rear.

With above in mind, do get your "loaded" trailer's tonque weight on the scale. Thus, giving you a real life number to work with.... To me, it sounds like you need stronger (next larger size) WDW bars...

Hope this helps....

.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:09 PM   #7
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I guess I will have to google Timbrens, but can you give us an idea how much those or airbags cost? Are they 'make specific' or will they fit any 1/2 ton ?

Also, what do you know about warranty for truck? We have a little over a year left on our F-150 warrranty, did adding bags to your truck void the suspension warranty?

Thanks
Timbrens, about $180-200

http://www.timbren.com/
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #8
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Timbrens, about $180-200

http://www.timbren.com/
Is that installed or just for the Timbens?
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:06 PM   #9
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Rob,

Welcome to the Jayco Owners Forums.

I pulled up the Jayco published weights on the 2010 29BHS and found: GVWR 7,500lbs, UVW 5,725lbs, and Dry Hitch 750lbs.. Just based on these numbers IMO the 800lb rated WD spring bars are to lite, and may be contributing to the problem.

The UVW is not the ship weight of the TT, so let's assume the ship weight is 5,900lbs.. Add another 200lbs for the battery and dealer options we are at 6,100lbs (realistic). Now get the TT home and load it up for a family camping trip, add another 700lbs (not including any fluids in the tanks), so we are at a loaded TT weight of 6,800lbs..

On a 30'-6" TT you want your loaded tongue weight to be 13%-15% of the loaded TT weight, so based on the 6,800lbs: 884lbs to 1,020lbs would be your ideal loaded tongue weight range. this implies that the WD spring bars should be rated at 1,000lbs minimum (not 800lbs).

For grins, if you were to load the TT up to it's GVWR of 7,500lbs, then the desired loaded TT tongue weight would be 975lbs to 1,125lbs (you could still get away using the 1,000lb spring bars if you were at the 13%). If you knew that you would be towing at the TT's GVWR on a regular basis, the 1,200lb rated spring bars would be better.

It isn't unusual for the rear TV suspension to drop 1"-2" with a properly sized and adjusted WDH, even my 2500HD rear suspension drops at least 1 1/2". The important thing is to return your TV's front suspension back to it's unhitched height when using a WDH.

IMO first invest in a properly sized/rated WDH, correctly adjust the WDH under loaded conditions, and take a test drive. Then revisit the air bag option.

Of course nothing is better than a visit to your local CAT scale to get the "real" weights to work with.

Just food for thought.

Bob
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:39 PM   #10
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Rob,

-snip-
On a 30'-6" TT you want your loaded tongue weight to be 13%-15% of the loaded TT weight, so based on the 6,800lbs: 884lbs to 1,020lbs would be your ideal loaded tongue weight range. this implies that the WD spring bars should be rated at 1,000lbs minimum (not 800lbs).

-snip- If you knew that you would be towing at the TT's GVWR on a regular basis, the 1,200lb rated spring bars would be better.

Just food for thought.

Bob
Here are some numbers for our same model tt.... As shipped, the uvw was 5721#. I'm thinking the tt loaded and including about 1/2 tank of water ran around 7000-7100lbs (sorry don't have those numbers with me right now) with our tt loaded to go camping for just a week with food, etc, and kids along with their 'stuff'.

Dry hitch weight for that year was 800+lbs. We added a battery, of course full tanks, lightest "stuff" to the storage cabinets, topper to the queen bed, typical wardrobe for an extended trip into the bed cabinets, and a few things under the queen bed. We've tried to experiment with packing up the above areas to see which would lower the tongue weight but still work for us as far a storage. Our tongue weights loaded full with propane ran between 1025-1,050 lbs each time we weighed. We adjusted our load again recently, and still need to head to the scales to see where we are now.

No matter, knowing we had such a heavy dry weight to our year model, Jayco (dealer and factory) encouraged us to consider the 1200lb bars just to play it safe. Hope this helps.
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:27 PM   #11
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snip........ I'm thinking the tt loaded and including about 1/2 tank of water ran around 7000-7100lbs (sorry don't have those numbers with me right now) with our tt loaded to go camping for just a week with food, etc, and kids along with their 'stuff'......snip
I agree, with the G2 29BHS once you bring "kids" and "water" into the weight equation it doesn't take long for the TT loaded weight to close in on the TT's GVWR.

Bob
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:35 PM   #12
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Thank you for the the warm welcome.

Second, thank you for the quick and well-informed opinions and responses based on authentic experiences and research.

We traded in our old Jayco trailer (2010 24 FBS) in the fall and upgraded to a 29BHS. The service manager told me I did not need a different hitch system to tow this new trailer but I would seem that 800 LBS is a bit lite. So, now, do I buy an air bag system to compensate the difference or just get a new EQ system. Either way I will have to purchase something and the question would be which one of these will make the most significant difference?

I should touch base with the dealer again tomorrow.
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:42 PM   #13
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I have to say though: Jayco has been awesome.

We purchased a Jayco Tent Trailer in 2007 and used that for a couple of years and then we bought last spring (March 2010) a new Jayflight 24FBS. We used it for 6 months (45 days camping in it). However, every time we took it out something went wrong. So many issues, to many to list, so eventually, our dealer suggested just returning it and gave us the purchase price minus $900. WOW! There was no expectation to purchase something from them (Voyager RV in Winfield, BC) but we did anyway. They were incredible.

We love the floor plan of the 29BHS and the kids love the bunk system.
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:03 PM   #14
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Is that installed or just for the Timbens?
Just for the Timbrens, I ordered them from etrailer and installed them myself. Installation is easy. They replace the overload rub piece on the frame, and rest on the axles when loaded. When empty, they do not touch the axle so unloaded ride is unaffected. I wanted a little more weight bearing ability for hauling weight, such as firewood, ice, crabs, etc, not just for the trailer towing. Right after I installed them I cut and loaded a full pickup load of wood and was impressed with the Timbrens and how the truck had little squat for that much weight. Truck campers seem to use them a lot, both on the front and rear. I just installed them on the rear. If you want to actually raise up your rear airbags would be the way to go, but more pricey and installation is a bit more involved.

Rustic Eagle is correct, some rear squat, 1-2", is normal.
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:06 PM   #15
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I have to say though: Jayco has been awesome.

We purchased a Jayco Tent Trailer in 2007 and used that for a couple of years and then we bought last spring (March 2010) a new Jayflight 24FBS. We used it for 6 months (45 days camping in it). However, every time we took it out something went wrong. So many issues, to many to list, so eventually, our dealer suggested just returning it and gave us the purchase price minus $900. WOW! There was no expectation to purchase something from them (Voyager RV in Winfield, BC) but we did anyway. They were incredible.

We love the floor plan of the 29BHS and the kids love the bunk system.


My personal opinion is I would get the hitch right first, then worry about airbags. The correct WD sized bars and system, along with proper sway control is very important.

On edit I quoted the wrong post but you get the idea.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:54 PM   #16
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.snip....... So, now, do I buy an air bag system to compensate the difference or just get a new EQ system.......snip
Rob,

There's very little that you can do to your TV's rear suspension that will compensate for an under rated WD spring bar. A properly sized/adjusted WDH is the only way to remove weight from your TV's rear axle (influenced by the weight added by the TT's loaded tongue weight) and distribute it correctly. An air bag system can't distribute weight off the rear axle.

FYI: Not many folks realize that cargo (% of weight) placed to the rear of a TV's rear axle is also supported by the WDH spring bars....., although this condition isn't part of the WDH sizing formula.

Bob
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:02 PM   #17
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Bob,

Makes sense. I will contact the dealer tomorrow and see where that conversation leads me.

I have a credit with them anyways....when I bought my new trailer I had my two 6 month old 6V batteries moved over and they credited me two 12 V batteries.

Rob
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:31 PM   #18
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AirLift 1000's. Some of the best money I ever spent. About $100.00 and easy to install.

HTH!

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Old 05-08-2011, 09:28 PM   #19
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My brother in law put airbags on his ford F250. Their trailer is a 320RLDS. He said it was money well spent as the truck was level and towed much better.

I plan on getting Firestone airgags for my Dodge 3500 this summer.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:26 PM   #20
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I've got the AirLift 5000 setup on my F250. Fairly easy to install, and definitely worth the money. I also have the on-board compressor with wireless controller, which is very cool; not truly necessary, but it makes it very easy to change the pressure in the bags at any time.

I don't think this is necessarily the solution to the OPs problem, but a cool setup non-the-less.
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