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Old 06-16-2011, 04:16 PM   #1
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Anyone running a 1,500lbs WDH?

Howdy -

I have a Jayco 32BHDS that has a dry weight of 8,300lbs (weighed at the factory). I do not yet know the loaded weight, but I would suspect it is in the 9,300-9,500lb range (GVWR is 10klbs). I plan on stopping by the scale one our next trip (next month).

I am currently running a 1,200lb Reese Straight Line hitch and have been wondering lately if this is big enough. If my trailer weighed ~8klbs from the factory, the tongue weight was already pushing 1,200lbs. Now that I've loaded it up (storage in the front is FULL), my tongue weight is probably quite a bit higher than the 1,200lb rating of the hitch.

I really started to think about this after the last trip, when I realized that one of my snap up brackets was bent. No idea how it happened as there is not any binding on my hitch, but it did (not sure how too much weight would be a factor either, as that piece of equipment is the same on most all hitches). The hitch was used when I bought it, so that may have played a factor in the failure.

Anyhow, I'm just wondering who out there is running a 1,500lb WDH, and how big your trailers are. Did you convert from a smaller hitch, or did you start out big? I'm looking at converting, and from what I can tell, I would only need to buy new bars and a new shank. I can't find any ratings on the trunnion head, but etrailer.com only sells one, regardless of the weight rating your going to use. Same goes for the cams on the DC system.

Let me know what you guys think. Before I get flamed for not knowing my weight, let me remind you that I'm going to the scale on my next trip, before I make any changes (other than getting new, heavy duty snap up brackets).
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:09 PM   #2
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I have a Reese straight line dual cam 17000/1700 wdh with a 2 1/2" bar. Also changed the hitch on my truck to a 2 1/2" receiver 17k.
The snap up bracket on the left side is bent.
My tongue wt. from factory is over 1300 & gvw 11200.
I am going to bolt the snap up brackets to the a frame using backing plates.
I contacted Reese about the bent snap up bracket and they want images of the hitch hooked up to see if it is correct. They're sending me new hd snap up brackets.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:12 PM   #3
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Thanks for the info. Once I get the heavy duty snap up brackets, I will bolt them to the frame as well, but I was thinking of using self tapping bolts instead of running a bolt all the way through the frame.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:59 PM   #4
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I'm curious on your scale readings, I have the same tt and I to have bent some brackets. I have yet to get by a scale, but I'm also running the 1200# bars on the Dual cam setup, although the brackets will be the same on either setup. I have the HD brackets and much to the dismay of the reese tech, I bent one of those also.(they replaced it for free) I do not have them bolted and the Reese tech looked at my pictures and said the setup should be good. I'm thinking of bolting it, or the local dealer mentioned that they could weld it on, but I'm not sure which way I'm going to go. Please post your scale readings when you get a chance, I am really curious of the "actual" weights on these things. Also, just wondering what type of tow vehicle are you using? I'm using a 2500 Silverado with the factory hitch. Thanks
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:01 PM   #5
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I use a 1,500lb Reese straight WDH. The Eagle 266 FBS I tow with it is 28' 4" long (per specs in Jayco brochure) and weighed approximately 6,400lb dry. Gross weight is 8,500lb. I don't know the "official" hitch weight is but the Jayco brochure listed it as 955lb. I use no sway control. The hitch setup has been used on two different TVs. The 96 Ford F-250 supercab HD did a commendable job towing. However, the 09 GMC 2500HD crew cab feels just a little more stable; probably due to the slightly longer wheelbase.

I don't put a lot of tension on the trunnion bars (the second link is hooked to the snap-up bracket). I prefer it that way because there is already plenty of weight on the front axle, courtesy of the diesel and 4WD.

I normally tow with all tanks empty. However, the black tank may have a gallon or two in it from the tank treatment (and some water to allow it to slosh around), but for all intents and purposes, I consider it empty.
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:08 PM   #6
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I'm towing with an '06 F250.

That is very interesting that you bent one of the heavy duty brackets. I'm not sure how heavier duty bars would keep this from happening again. I think when I order my new brackets though, I'm going to go ahead and get the 1,500lb bars and shank and then set the hitch up to use them. I will probably end up bolting the snap up brackets to the frame as well just so that they are 100% secure.

I won't be by a scale until our next trip (early August), and I will probably have already gone with the heavier setup (because I need a new bracket, and if I order it all at once, I can get free shipping). I'll definitely post my findings when I get them though.
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:38 PM   #7
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I have the 32BHDS. I had bent 4 of the snap up brackets in the first 2 months of having my reese dual cam set up. I ended up getting the bolt on brackets, and after 3000 miles towing and about 30 hitch/unhitch episodes I have not bent anymore brackets. I also run with 1200lbs bars.
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:42 PM   #8
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How exactly did you bolt the brackets to the frame? Did you run bolts all the way through and use a backing plate?
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:35 PM   #9
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The bolt on brackets were bought from Reese and did not come with a backing plate, good idea to use one on the hollow frame. I bolted through the frame and used the washers it came with.
Before switching to the bolt on brackets I could not go on a short trip, 10 miles , before I bent a snap up bracket. With the bolt on brackets we have gone to Florida from NY and back with no incidents of bracket bending.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:08 PM   #10
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So the heavy duty brackets come with bolts? Good to know. Now I just need to find some material to use as a backing plate!
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:32 PM   #11
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Not aware that the Reese snap-up brackets come with bolts that were long enough to go through the TT tube A-frame.

This is my 5/16-18 bolt through and backer plate (1/4" x 5 1/2" x 6" tall) set-up with the Reese #58392:





Prior thread on the subject: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=2578

Those of you towing with the Reese HP Dual Cam make sure that you have the chain hanger bracket attached to the cam correctly, if it's on backwards it will pull the snap-up bracket 'outward' causing it to bend.

Bob
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:45 PM   #12
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On the old style, the 'U' should be facing inward, correct? The new style should have the bends coming in toward the trailer.

I'm thinking of using self tapping bolts instead of drilling all the way through the frame. Does anyone see any issue with this?
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasA&M View Post
On the old style, the 'U' should be facing inward, correct? The new style should have the bends coming in toward the trailer.....snip
Early "HP" version the U-bolt threads should be facing outward:



Latest "HP" version the U-bolt threads should be facing inward:



Self tappers may work on the snap-up bracket, all depends if the threads will hold the down-ward force placed on the bracket. The problem is the thin wall of the A-frame tube.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:14 AM   #14
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Good deal. I've got the old version, and that is how I run the chains. I guess I need to find some material for a backing plate and then run the bolts all the way through.

Edit: On second thought, the threads don't need to hold the downward force of the bracket. The bracket itself does that by sitting on top of the frame. All the bolts do is keep the bracket aligned properly so that all of the force is squarely on top of the frame. I think that through bolts are still the way to go, but self tappers would probably be sufficient.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:07 AM   #15
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snip......On second thought, the threads don't need to hold the downward force of the bracket. The bracket itself does that by sitting on top of the frame. All the bolts do is keep the bracket aligned properly so that all of the force is squarely on top of the frame....snip
"Downward force" may have been a poor choice of wording on my part under a static state, but there is a degree of 'load' being applied to the threads and this is where the tubular wall thickness comes into play when using self tappers (amount of thread contact with a given tubular wall thickness).

Before I bolted my brackets to the frame I could see a little daylight appear between the bracket and the frame during the spring bar lifting process because of the outward arc/downward force of the chain under load prior to locking the snap-up bracket. It should be noted that I have the Reese HP Dual Cam/WDH.

Thinking out loud here: With a Reese HP Dual Cam/WDH there isn't any chain movement during a TV turn, but with a standard WDH the chain moves for/aft during a TV turn which puts additional load considerations against the snap-up bracket. The snap-up bracket wanting to 'slide' along or pull over the top of the frame (under heavy tongue weight conditions) becomes a real possibility and the bolts are taking the load under these conditions.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:05 AM   #16
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I concur with your thoughts... I'm running a DC as well, so there shouldn't be any movement during turns. That said, a couple extra bolts can't hurt!!

If you lift your trailer/TV up high enough with the tongue jack during the hitching process, you should be able to take away any 'outward' force created by the chains during hookup. I usually jack it up high enough to do by hand, so there shouldn't be any tension on the brackets until the tongue is lowered.

Either way, I'll be looking for some backing plate material so that I can do it right the first time. I'm not a metal working by any means, so what is the best place to get some small pieces of plate?
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:56 AM   #17
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snip........I'm not a metal working by any means, so what is the best place to get some small pieces of plate?
Good question, I've worked in the manufacturing sector for years so I have sources in my area....., but you may want to call any place that builds utility trailers, a place that does welding/cutting, scrap yard, etc..

Bob
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:07 AM   #18
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I've been closely watching this thread since I'm seriously considering getting the Reese DC when I buy my TT. I have had a little metal fab experience and I do not feel self tapping screws into the machine would be stong enough; there would not be enough threads to prevent stripping. Through bolts would be better but, even with a backer plate, some defomation of the tube frame will eventually occur, causing the bolts to loosen up. What I've seen done in situations like this is to drill a clearance hole in the frame side where the bracket goes that will clear the bolt being used, then drill a hole in the opposite side large enough to take a heavy walled spacer tube the length of the outside dimension of the tube frame minus one wall thickness. The bolt would be inserted in the bracket and the frame side. The spacer tube then will be slipped over the bolt and the washers and nut would then be applied and torqued down. This is actually stronger than if one could somehow get into the tube frame to put washers and a nut on the bolt since the longer bolt length allows the bolt to stretch slightly ensuring it will stay tight longer (this technique is often used on steel beam and column construction to avoid snapping bolts when stressed since longer bolts can give more than short ones).

Being paranoid, I plan on going a step further. Once I determine where the bracket has to go, I'll drill the holes through both frame sides. On the side opposite where the bracket goes, I'll drill holes just under the bolt holes large enough to allow the spacer tube to go through. Then I'll use a small grinder (like in a Dremel tool) to break just enough of the web between the holes to allow a small diameter rod, screwdriver, or really stiff wire to pass through.

To install the bracket, I'll set it on the frame, temporarily insert the bolts, tape the braket in place so I don't have to chase it all over the place, then remove the bolts. Using a rod, screwdriver, whatever, insert a spacer tube through one of the large holes and manuever it through the broken web until the tube is aligned with the holes above then reinsert the bolt. Same for the other bolt. Because of the clamp screw, I would also use a spacer plate, same as Rustic Eagle's (great idea, btw) to reduce or, hopefully eliminate frame deformation when the clamp screw is cinched down, then apply the needed washers and nuts and torque them down. Then the clamp screw can be cinched down.

This all sounds like a lot of work but it would ensure that both sides of the tube frame are sandwiched between the fasteners, pretty much preventing any chance of frame deformation which can cause loosening of the fasteners. Like I said, I'm paranoid.

Steel plate can be bought from some industrial metal suppliers; the ones that will deal in small quantities will cut it for you for a small charge. Just order it cut from 6" cold rolled bar stock. Or, if you don't mind doing the cutting yourself (it can be cut with a hacksaw with a lot of patience), you might get lucky and find what you need at a scrap yard. You should be able to find the heavy walled tube at the same places. I would go for a wall thickness of at least 3/16". Tempting though it may be, I wouldn't trust water pipe. Some really high pressure hydraulic pipe may be strong enough.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:23 AM   #19
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Just got off the phone with Reese tech support and confirmed a couple of things -

They only produce one trunnion head for all WDH setups (for 2" receivers). That means that the head I currently have is rated up to 1,500lbs, so I won't need a new one. Same thing goes for the cams. The only thing I need to get is new bars, and a new shank (mine states clearly on the side that it's rated for 12k, 1,200tw). I need new snap up brackets as well, since one of mine is bent.

On that note, I asked them about bolting down the brackets, and they specifically advised against bolting all the way through the frame due to distortion issues. He said that self tapping bolts are more than sufficient.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:54 PM   #20
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snip.....On that note, I asked them about bolting down the brackets, and they specifically advised against bolting all the way through the frame due to distortion issues. He said that self tapping bolts are more than sufficient.
I can understand Reese making that statement because they have no control over the tube wall thickness, and/or the bolt tightening torque being applied, especially on the TT lighter frames. IMO when using a backer plate with a snap-up bracket common sense and care should be taken in its application. Sizing the backer plate so that it rests against the rounded corners of the tubular frame will also address potential distortion concerns.

I do however agree that in the case of thru-bolting (in the event of) a Dual Cam Frame Plate on a tubular frame an "inside" spacer block should be considered do to the bolt torque requirements of this particular application.

My understanding is that drilling/tapping any type of hole at or into the corner radius of tubular steel will compromise the inherent strength of the tube, or collapsing the flat surfaces of the opposing sidewalls.

Using self tappers can be effective on the heavier TT tubular frames, but the lighter frames one may loose adequate thread contact.

Bob
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