Done with Jayco!

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by doo800XRS

In my opinion you shouldn't have to buy a camper, car or anything for that matter and re engineer it in your driveway to make it useable and reliable.

I completely agree with this ^, but unfortunately this is more of the norm now so in my opinion it's either go back to sleeping in a tent or buy a TT and have to do work to it.

I'm not defending Jayco or anyone else, but until everyone stops purchasing sub-par constructed RV's it is what it is.

[RVhiker]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

I completely agree with this ^, but unfortunately this is more of the norm now so in my opinion it's either go back to sleeping in a tent or buy a TT and have to do work to it.

I'm not defending Jayco or anyone else, but until everyone stops purchasing sub-par constructed RV's it is what it is.

I don't disagree that the cure is for consumers to quit buying crap. However, what do I purchase to make sure that a shiny new RV is not sub-par? If I find a non sub-par RV manufacturer, where do I get warranty service if there is not a dealer reasonably close to me?

[KillerIsMe]

Personally, I'm not all that mechanically inclined. I work in an anatomic pathology lab and that's where my skill set lies. I can do some things around the house to keep it up but if something goes wrong with my furnace I'm calling my furnace guy. It's that way with the cars too - sure I can change the oil, rotate the tires, replace a headlight - simple stuff. But I'm not diving into a new radiator or AC compressor. That's outside my comfort level.



I figured owning an RV would be no different than owning a house or a car - stuff is going to go wrong. Some of it will be simple like turning a screw or changing a fuse, but some will be more complicated and outside my zone of comfort. So I spent my time dealer shopping. I was never set on Jayco, and I wasn't bent determined to get the absolute best price down to the last nickel. No, I knew eventually I'd have to drag my trailer in for repairs, so the most important thing for me was to find a reputable dealer within a reasonable proximity and buy from them. And that's what I did. I mean, I really admire the mechanical aptitude of all you folks who can tear out your water heater but that's not everyone. That's why we have repair people. It's also why we have doctors - not everyone can self-diagnose.



Things break man, and to think otherwise or to think another manufacturer will be different is just naive. If you can't fix your own trailer and you can't afford to have someone fix it for you maybe you should just not have one. Just my opinion.

[01tundra]

I bought from a good (relatively speaking), local rep and they've been decent to work with.

But if something goes wrong I choose if I'm going to take it to them and have our new TT sit for a month at the dealership versus me spending a few minutes and dollars to fix it myself.

By the time I drive an hours each direction and spend money on fuel, more times than not it's easier and less expensive to fix it myself and then I am also satisfied with the quality of the repair. I've always lived by the saying "if you want something fixed right, fix it yourself" though.

I view the warranty as something to deal with big ticket items - slide failure, appliance failure, etc.

I could drag our TT to the dealer every time a piece of trim comes loose and scream warranty, but the only one I'm hurting is myself because I want to be out camping.

Again, I'm not defending Jayco, some of their quality control is laughable at best, but it just is what it is......

[doo800XRS]

Originally Posted by KillerIsMe

Personally, I'm not all that mechanically inclined. I work in an anatomic pathology lab and that's where my skill set lies. I can do some things around the house to keep it up but if something goes wrong with my furnace I'm calling my furnace guy. It's that way with the cars too - sure I can change the oil, rotate the tires, replace a headlight - simple stuff. But I'm not diving into a new radiator or AC compressor. That's outside my comfort level.

I figured owning an RV would be no different than owning a house or a car - sh!t's going to go wrong. Some of it will be simple like turning a screw or changing a fuse, but some will be more complicated and outside my zone of comfort. So I spent my time dealer shopping. I was never set on Jayco, and I wasn't hell-bent determined to get the absolute best price down to the last nickel. No, I knew eventually I'd have to drag my trailer in for repairs, so the most important thing for me was to find a reputable dealer within a reasonable proximity and buy from them. And that's what I did. I mean, I really admire the mechanical aptitude of all you folks who can tear out your water heater but that's not everyone. That's why we have repair people. It's also why we have doctors - not everyone can self-diagnose.

Things break man, and to think otherwise or to think another manufacturer will be different is just naive. If you can't fix your own trailer and you can't afford to have someone fix it for you maybe you should just not have one. Just my opinion.

I think this is the majority of people. I always say stick to what you're good at and hire a professional to do what you're not. However the majority of people buy an RV, hook up and go, as it should be. I don't think it's a issue of being able to afford service as I think majority of the people that RV have some source of disposable income but when dealers are backed up for weeks or months it's a issue. Maybe the wait for service would be less if there was better components or assembly practices.

To me the way these things look on the outside and how they're put together is like masking the symptoms and not curing the disease.

I think most people expect issues. It is how they're handled that make the difference.

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[sennister]

Originally Posted by doo800XRS

It's not always a parts issue sometimes it's a QC issue. Our first two trips in our 2016 Jayco ended up with flooding due to a leaky water valve on the first trip and the second a loose connection to the outside sink which backed water up into the bathroom. Where's the quality control there? A .29 cent shut off valve caused hundreds of dollars in damage that Jayco deemed not necessary to repair. A better quality valve would have prevented this. The loose connection on the sink could have been caught as well.

In my opinion you shouldn't have to buy a camper, car or anything for that matter and re engineer it in your driveway to make it useable and reliable. When I hear 2-3 month wait at the dealer for repairs tells me it's a widespread problem, one that will not go away as long as we keep defending their shortcomings with "its not their fault"

My previous camper was my families 1969 Banner 19' that my parents brought brand new and was used until the mid 90's when my father passed. It had real wood cabinets and was built to last. I sold it to a young guy who started camping with his young family. He stopped a year later and said that he plugged it in everything still worked after sitting for years. All he did was a thorough cleaning and inspection prior to using. On a 25 yr old camper.

Now the other side of the coin is that it's a rolling box getting jostled and banged around when in use so I agree one must be diligent in their PM but to have issues right out of the factory in such high numbers is not acceptable. At least not to me. Did anyone see the youtube video that Jayco has about the assembly line? I think they are actually proud of it lol.

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One of the things that manufacturers are fighting is the demands placed on them by customers. Everyone wants bigger campers but lighter ones so they can pull them with their mini SUV.

They can make them bigger but that adds weight if they build them the same way. So they come out with lighter materials but they are not as strong so you have failures. Sure they could come out with lighter and stronger materials but then they would be so expensive that people would get priced out of them. A way that they keep costs down is to increase volume. If the slow down and make one unit a day they would have to jack up the price to remain in business.

It is hard to do a comparison in the Travel Trailer line but look at the Seneca Super C Motorhome category. You have a Freightliner Chassis and a 37' floorplan. I have never shopped for one but they have a MSRP for about $230-250K. Not sure what they actually sell for. Then there are other brands which use the same chassis which can easily cost double that.

[doo800XRS]

Originally Posted by sennister

One of the things that manufacturers are fighting is the demands placed on them by customers. Everyone wants bigger campers but lighter ones so they can pull them with their mini SUV.

They can make them bigger but that adds weight if they build them the same way. So they come out with lighter materials but they are not as strong so you have failures. Sure they could come out with lighter and stronger materials but then they would be so expensive that people would get priced out of them. A way that they keep costs down is to increase volume. If the slow down and make one unit a day they would have to jack up the price to remain in business.

It is hard to do a comparison in the Travel Trailer line but look at the Seneca Super C Motorhome category. You have a Freightliner Chassis and a 37' floorplan. I have never shopped for one but they have a MSRP for about $230-250K. Not sure what they actually sell for. Then there are other brands which use the same chassis which can easily cost double that.

I agree. My issue isn't so much the failure of major components as much as the shoddy workmanship putting them together. I bet a majority of the issues the dealers see are from poor connections or routing issues during assembly whether it's HVAC, electrical or plumbing. I work on Freightliners for a living and the first thing guys want to replace when a problem arises is the related module when in fact it is a usually a chafed wire or wires during assembly. Now some issues are just hard to avoid, but others not so much.

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[doo800XRS]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

I completely agree with this ^, but unfortunately this is more of the norm now so in my opinion it's either go back to sleeping in a tent or buy a TT and have to do work to it.

I'm not defending Jayco or anyone else, but until everyone stops purchasing sub-par constructed RV's it is what it is.

Thank you for summarizing my ramblings lol. That was my point as well.

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[KillerIsMe]

Originally Posted by doo800XRS

I don't think it's a issue of being able to afford service as I think majority of the people that RV have some source of disposable income but when dealers are backed up for weeks or months it's a issue. Maybe the wait for service would be less if there was better components or assembly practices.

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This. This is something that has me mystified. Why do you have to drag your trailer to the dealership and have it sit there for weeks or even months? I read this complaint all the time and don't understand it. If I take my truck in for a wheel bearing and it has to be scheduled or parts ordered I take it back home until the appointment time. Why isn't it the same for a trailer? I mean, if the refrigerator goes the trailer is still usable. Same with the water heater, the stove, and probably a host of other things. Obviously if it's something catastrophic like the entire electrical system or the slide or a big leak or something you leave it. Do dealers make you leave the trailer until the new Norcold comes in? (Spot the rookie! Win valuable prizes!!)

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by doo800XRS

I agree. My issue isn't so much the failure of major components as much as the shoddy workmanship putting them together. I bet a majority of the issues the dealers see are from poor connections or routing issues during assembly whether it's HVAC, electrical or plumbing. I work on Freightliners for a living and the first thing guys want to replace when a problem arises is the related module when in fact it is a usually a chafed wire or wires during assembly. Now some issues are just hard to avoid, but others not so much.

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A good example was our A/C unit.

First time we turned it on for any length of time was this Spring when it finally warmed up (picked up our TT in November and I did turn it on to make sure it ran). Turned it on at the campground and it would barely pull out little TT down to 75F and it was only 83F outside. I could hear the compressor cycling every 2-3 minutes.

I'm an HVAC engineer and former service tech so I came to the conclusion that the unit possibly had a leak in the refrigerant circuit, causing it to go out on a low pressure switch. Took it to the dealer and they kept it a week and replaced the bottom portion that houses the thermostat. I asked them if they ensured that this fixed the problem since we had a trip booked for the upcoming weekend and it was going to be in the upper 80's and they said "yes, we've ran it all day and it works perfect". In their defense, while they had it the temps were in the lower 70's, but I also know that they didn't really pay much attention to performance.

Took it out the next weekend and it still did a poor job cooling, just slightly better because the compressor did run longer between cycles.

So at that point I could either drag it back up to the dealer again or take matter into my own hands. I opted to call Coleman and talk with their engineer a few times and got some tips on things to look for and changes that they have done to the units being shipped out. I spent maybe $15 and an hour or so and now when it's in the 90's outside we can maintain upper 60's inside easily.

I could have kept dragging it to the dealership and getting the same results, or could have come here and started a thread titled "I'm done with Jayco" because their A/C units suck, Forest River here I come" but instead I asked questions on here, and to Jayco and Coleman and learned some new learned tricks on how to optimize the A/C on our TT, so for me it was a win-win.

Now should Jayco have made sure that the unit was operating correctly and installed in the best way possible - absolutely!

I would much rather the dealership swap me out parts under warranty and let me do the labor, this is my preferred method of repair honestly because from what I've experienced so far, I don't trust RV service technicians to do acceptable quality work.

[Jopopsy]

Originally Posted by 01tundra

but instead I asked questions on here, and to Jayco and Coleman and learned some new learned tricks on how to optimize the A/C on our TT, so for me it was a win-win.

What did you learn?

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

What did you learn?

First one was to use foil tape and tape up the supply air connector boot, especially in the corners where air could leak/bypass, I taped everything from one end to the other to ensure zero chance of air leakage.

Next was the make sure that the t-stat sensing bulb was not touching any metal framing inside the A/C unit and was pushed far enough inside the return grille to not be able to pick up drafts within the TT, especially important on ours since it's a 19' TT with a 13,000 BTUH A/C unit - on high it's like a wind tunnel inside.

And finally, to use thin foam insulating tape (available at Home Depot) and completely cover the metal housing within the return air plenum that the t-stat is housed in, Coleman now does that on all their units, but mine was manufactured before they made the change. I believe this was the largest factor, since the connector boot had some places in the corners where it could short cycle air from the supply into the return plenum and the metal housing that holds the t-stat had gaps in the cover.....

This is a non-ducted style A/C with the control knobs mounted overhead on the unit.

[doo800XRS]

Originally Posted by KillerIsMe

This. This is something that has me mystified. Why do you have to drag your trailer to the dealership and have it sit there for weeks or even months? I read this complaint all the time and don't understand it. If I take my truck in for a wheel bearing and it has to be scheduled or parts ordered I take it back home until the appointment time. Why isn't it the same for a trailer? I mean, if the refrigerator goes the trailer is still usable. Same with the water heater, the stove, and probably a host of other things. Obviously if it's something catastrophic like the entire electrical system or the slide or a big leak or something you leave it. Do dealers make you leave the trailer until the new Norcold comes in? (Spot the rookie! Win valuable prizes!!)

I can't really answer for other people, but personally I don't think it is a good idea to use anything that isn't functioning properly without knowing the root cause of failure. Could that malfunctioning hvac issue or refrigerator that still allows the trailer to be "usable" be a fire hazard? Sure could. Am I being dramatic? Maybe. Point is you won't know until the dealer checks it out and hopefully competent enough to make the judgement.

When I worked in automotive repair the First question is always "how much?" The second question always was "is it safe?" That's not always an easy question to answer. Ultimately you have to make your own decisions and be responsible for the consequences.

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[The Logans]

Hmmm... Hotel vs our RV... well, in the RV I know who did what to who in the bed last night! Hotel... not so much...

[Screwby]

All those techs at the "High End" dealerships must be bored with all the flawless units never needing fixed.
Seriously though, there's an issue in the industry, but why people are always so quick to throw up their hands and scream "this brand sucks!!" always baffles me.
This is a pay to play hobby/lifestyle in a huge growth phase event in time. If you can't fix it or modify it yourself your going to be throwing money at it eventually.

[Neng]

I pick up a 2018 27bhs, took it out for the first time Monday, few things were wrong but it's nothing major. Water hose not tight causing leaks, half a turn fix the issue. Now my outdoor kitchen gas line is not supplying gas while my back grill is working, they are both off 1 main line but tee's off. Im not driving 5hrs to get it warranty. I'll just replace it. Sucks that I have to put money into a new camper but I could already see a bunch of stuff going bad down the road but that's the game. Pay to play.

I'll caulk n silicon all the windows cause the factory work is very sloppy n didn't silicon all around ( just the top lol) shower not seal properly, its fine cause I'll do it myself.

[hoppers4]

Interesting thread but OP seems to be MIA.?

[BigJohnD]

May be on the Grand Design forum.

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by hoppers4

Interesting thread but OP seems to be MIA.?

Uh yeah.....he's probably out camping care free with his new Grand Design

If that's the case, I hope they have a better experience and can get back to enjoying the camping lifestyle, that's what it's all about in the end anyways.

Not gonna lie, the GD IMAGINE 2150RB is a pretty sweet looking rig.

[Ruth]

Just wanted to add my .02. In the 80s, we owned a Coachmen, in the 90s, we owned another Coachmen, we purchased a Palomino Puma in 2013 and traded it for a Jayco. In all these trailers were the same appliances, manufactured by the same manufacturers, Atwood, Suburban, Norcold, Magic Chef, etc. These manufacturers have sent most of the electronics to China to be built. My husband and I have worked in the electronics industry for 40 years and the stuff coming out of China is pure junk. If you want to fix your own rv, learn how solder, and please use leaded solder. Most of the problems with control boards are caused by assembly errors. Solder balls, shorts, opens, etc. If it doesn't smell like burnt carbon then it probably can be repaired instead of being replaced by another POS...