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08-01-2016, 02:00 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 12
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Electrical problem...any advice?
2008 32BHDS, Experiencing shorting out of neutral wire for the main line (30amp) shoreline power at the neutral bus bar. Wire has completely melted on two occasions. Set screws have been tightened so arching should not be an issue.
Any help would be appreciated
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08-01-2016, 02:18 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,782
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Not much help here, but have you used a circuit tester, that plugs into an outlet to verify that the TT is properly wired? a circuit tester costs about $7. It will tell you if you have an open, reversed polarity or many other potential wiring issues.
Has the cord been damaged any where, such as being driven over, pinched? Damage could cause an increase in internal resistance.
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08-01-2016, 02:22 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL area
Posts: 5,196
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Did you purchase this TT used?
Have you been using the TT without any issues?
Did you do any electrical work or have any electrical work done to the TT?
Both times at the same pedestal???
Do you have an AC meter to test the pedestal to insure that it is wired correctly?
Need a little more information...
Don
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08-01-2016, 02:26 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 5,195
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Does the plug on the end of the shore power cable get warm or hot? There may be a bad neutral connection inside the plug. Maybe a bad receptacle? Do you see any signs of arcing/overheating(discolored metal) on the plug itself?
__________________
Bill
2011 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab
2011 Jay Flight 26BH
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08-01-2016, 02:30 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Abingdon
Posts: 6,177
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Are you using an EMS?
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle 328 RLTS
2021 Keystone Montana 3121RL
2013 F350 6.7L 4x4 CCLB
W/Air Lift air bags (front & rear)
Equal-I-Zer™ WDH & B&W Companion
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08-01-2016, 02:53 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Walpole, NH
Posts: 367
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When this has happened were you plugged in at a campground? or home? Make sure the outlet you are plugged into is 110 volt not 220 volt.
__________________
TV 2013 RAM 1500 4x4 Tradesman W/5.7L Hemi 6spd auto w/3.55 rears
TT 2009 Jayco Jayflight G2 29BHS
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08-01-2016, 03:20 PM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 12
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We bought the trailer new from jayco in Winnipeg Canada in 08. Recall on missing neutral bus bar screw was serviced, so no issue there. Last fall we smelt burning electrical and had a service technician examine breaker panel. Every single neutral wire had cooked and insulation jacket melted. Bad wire was cut back until undamaged wire could be found. Technician said that with heating and cooling of set screws can cause them to loosen thus arching. All set screws were tightened. We run 30AMP (120 v) from a post at the park and have never had issues. It's a permanent site, never towed. On Friday, we lost power to park for 3 hrs so running battery. When power kicked back on we switched back on A/C etc and an hour later noticed lights dimming. Began to investigate and found that the main shore line power neutral had burned and was broken, making intermittent connection. Set screw appears to be fused with bus bar due to overheating. Disconnected all power ( dc) at post and called it a night.
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08-01-2016, 05:16 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 609
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Since its on a seasonal site... It's time to call a licensed electrician.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Craig T. Bailey
Hudson, NH
2015 Jayflight 32BHDS
2018 Chevy 3500HD Crew 4x4 Duramax
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08-01-2016, 06:17 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbailey
Since its on a seasonal site... It's time to call a licensed electrician.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Agree. I don't know of an issue with the trailer that would cause something like what you're experiencing. I suspect a power quality issue...low voltage, high amperage, low frequency, etc.
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08-01-2016, 06:31 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Abilene
Posts: 579
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Wow!
Is the cord copper conductors?
What you describe sounds like aluminum wiring.
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08-01-2016, 08:49 PM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 12
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As far as I know, it's all copper wiring. I'm wondering if the neutral had a partial break and with full draw ( a/c water heater etc) it caused it to burn through. The electrian from the RV centre that made initial repair pulled out the entire panell and checked over everything. Couple of loose wire nuts but nothing else. Frustrated. Not sure after all these years why it would be doing this.
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08-02-2016, 10:17 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nanaimo
Posts: 455
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Over-tightened connections cause hot spots just like loose ones. Makes me wonder if the tech that fixed it last time was worried about loose connections and may have tightened it too much. The proper torque settings for neutral bar screws aren't all that high (usually 20-35 in.lbs depending on wire size).
Also if power was out for several hours then everyone's AC, water heaters, etc in the park and the fridges, freezers, etc on the wider grid all come on at the same time and cause the line voltage to sag. That could easily be what provided the stress to cause an already poor connection to fail.
__________________
2016 Jayflight 26BHS Elite
2014 F150 4x4 Super Crew, Eco-Boost, Max Tow
Bayliner Trophy 2002ff
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08-02-2016, 09:20 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 12
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Sounds like a good place to start. Tec guy really did giver her hard on set screws. If anyone has any other information about this, I'd sure like to hear.
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08-02-2016, 11:13 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nanaimo
Posts: 455
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You should start by replacing the neutral bar. They are not hard to find. If it's been that hot twice it's shot and will be very hard to get good reliable connections.
Cut all of the neutral wires back to good wire including the ones that don't appear cooked and re-terminate using a torque driver. I would check to be sure on the replacement bar but normally up to #10cu wire is 20 inch-pounds and there shouldn't be any in there bigger than that on the AC power side. That's not nearly as tight as you'd think so don't be tempted to tighten by feel or you will be going down the same road again.
I think a bad connection is the likely cause of your problem and not any other internal wiring issue. A wiring issue on an internal cct would have caused heating on its own smaller wire and not the larger shore power wire. Also, wire fails where it is compromised is so unlikely damage to another spot on the cord or cord plug would have caused your problem.
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08-03-2016, 05:16 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCK
Over-tightened connections cause hot spots just like loose ones. Makes me wonder if the tech that fixed it last time was worried about loose connections and may have tightened it too much. The proper torque settings for neutral bar screws aren't all that high (usually 20-35 in.lbs depending on wire size)...
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Just curious how over-tightened connections can cause hot spots. Does the wire just get smashed flat and become too thin and cause the issue, or is it something else?
__________________
There's lots of advice and information in forums... sometimes it is correct. For example, all of my posts are made by a political appointee who got the job as a reward for contributions to my diesel bill.
2011 Jayco 28.5RLS; 2021 Chevy Duramax; Pullrite Superglide Hitch
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08-03-2016, 10:35 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Nanaimo
Posts: 455
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Over tightening can over compress and deform the metal of the terminal & screw and/or damage the conductor. In time this actually causes the connection to fail & loosen, overheat, oxidize and further deteriorate. A termination that is failing because it was over tightened in the first place is often “loose” when discovered and the thought is to re-tighten because it was “loose”. Simply re-tightening a “loose” or hot connection without understanding why it is failing in the first place and fixing it properly has limited success. Only about 20% of “loose” connections are fixed by simply tightening – the other 80% will fail again.
__________________
2016 Jayflight 26BHS Elite
2014 F150 4x4 Super Crew, Eco-Boost, Max Tow
Bayliner Trophy 2002ff
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08-03-2016, 11:52 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 675
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Hmm. ALL the neutrals were burnt? That is unusual to say the least. This is a 30 amp trailer or a 50 with the extra A/C?
Are there by chance and MWBC's? (Multi Wire Branch Circuits) Are there any red wires on the breakers? If you have some shared neutrals on a single phase then the neutral would have to take the load of both circuits combined. Normally the neutral would only take the difference in loads. But this should only effect the single and/or surrounding neutrals, not all of them.
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Thanks,
Brian
TV = 2006 F-350 CC DRW 6.0
TT = 2018 Wildwood 31KQBTS
TT = 2007 Jayco Jay Flight 27bh - SOLD
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08-03-2016, 08:13 PM
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#18
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 12
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No shared neutrals and no mwbc's ( red wire ).
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08-03-2016, 08:45 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 974
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If you are on a 30amp circuit number 10 wire should never melt insulation. Number 10 is rated at 30amps with only a 30deg c temp rise. A loose connection can get very hot based upon change in resistance at the contact points. The voltage drop across the connection times the current draw on the wire is the wattage (heat) that causes the melting.
A good electrician can probe the wire and bar(measure voltage in parallel with the connection) and read the voltage drop. That needs to be done to either rule out the bus bar connections or prove they are the issue.
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No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln
2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
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08-12-2016, 07:34 AM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 12
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When I do the repair I intend to replace the neutral bus bar. Is there a paste that I can coat the wires with to prevent oxidation of the wires ?
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