Factory quality observation

[Wireman]

As I posted on another thread I have factory ordered a 2016 Jay Feather 23RLSW. 8-10 week delivery. The DW and I decided to go to the dealer and take some measurements and take a look at the floor plan again.

We looked at a in stock unit that wasn't sold. I don't know if this unit was delivered using the Santa Fe trail or what. In the bedroom the left side cabinet next to the bed was separating from the front wall and ceiling by at least 1/2" or more.

Not a good sign on build quality. I'm sure all manufacturers use the build them and get them out now philosophy. Glad there is a 2 year Jayco warranty for any future issues.

Other little issues such as not plumb trim, gauges, etc. I guess it's just typical how we build them now. Maybe I'm to picking on things I spend a lot of money on. It seems the quality control before leaving the factory is at the very minimum.
It seems it would be more cost effective to fix issues before leaving the factory than pay a dealer to do the work.

I'm talking about visible things I can see and should be fixed then. Just curious on how many issues you had upon taking delivery of your new Jayco TT. Wireman

[Rob Church]

My experience, while limited to two previous trailers and suggestion...

Yes the quality is not that of mass produced cars/trucks due to the nature of the RVs being made mostly by hand. Add that we bounce these units down the road and should expect some fit issues in addition to noticing more finishing as we spend more time staring at the walls.

I owned two Keystone / Dutchman products before purchasing my Eagle and can attest that the two year warranty is a blessing.

IMHO, it is best to take an active role working with both the dealer and manufacturer.

My experience in dealing with warranty long after its expiration is in;
- showing the problem and (very importantly) a recurring problem by creating detailed documentation with pictures, showing the issue and detailing what you think is wrong and the expected resolution
- time sensitivity sharing documentation with the dealer and manufacturer
- being professional in ALL forms of communication; written, verbal, in person...

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Wireman

We looked at a in stock unit that wasn't sold. I don't know if this unit was delivered using the Santa Fe trail or what. In the bedroom the left side cabinet next to the bed was separating from the front wall and ceiling by at least 1/2" or more.

I mentioned this once before. One day we saw two units (non JAYCO) that were being delivered and the drivers were flying, hit a bump on the X-way and all four tires on both units came off the ground.

With that said, the dealer you went to should have gone over and fixed that unit before ever putting it on display.

[Wireman]

Grumpy, I was shocked to see it on display also. With such a visual problem the dealer sure isn't projecting an image of being proactive. I know this unit has been on the lot for at least a month.


My walk through will be very detailed when that time comes. Has anyone had any serious issues structurely on their TT in the first 6 months or so. Wireman

[jloco]

This past fall prior to ordering our Jayco, the wife and I made an appointment to look at a Keystone Springdale 38FL at a dealership in RI. I couldn't believe the condition of this thing. Doors hanging crooked, screen door literally being held to the rv by one screw (all the rest were missing). Power outlet covers on the floor, warped trim throughout. Huh? And I'm going to do business with this place? I don't think so. I gave them a 4 day notice of coming to see the trailer and they made no effort to check it to be sure it was presentable. I can only imagine the quality of service they provide.

[blderman]

My 2016 23mbh took me a total of two weeks worth of working evenings to correct all the problems and I still have a few more to fix. I wouldn't let the dealer touch it as I saw some of the "punchlist" work they did on our trailer and it was very poor.

[Harreec]

This was our first trailer purchase and first walk through on purchase. Looking back I sure would have taken more time on it but have to say our trailer was in pretty good shape. Had a few minor issues but looked after them myself as I need to get to know it. The dealership where we bought it has a fantastic parts/service department which is not far from our home.

[Wireman]

I don't really expect it to be perfect upon delivery, but what annoys me is things that could be corrected using a level instead of the "eyeball" method when built. A little extra time to position them.


On another 23RLSW on a dealers lot, the bathroom door was sticking out at the bottom almost 1/2" and flush with the jamb at the top when closed. I guess I notice more things when looking at a unit, not the bling but quality of build.


I've noticed this stuff on $200K motorhomes as well so it's not just a Jayco issue.


I don't know if the workers are paid by piece work, but it may be a industry wide process that causes a lot of quality issues.


Like I said before, I'm baffled by some of the things I see on these new TT when delivered.


Off my soapbox on quality. I'll deal with my unit when delivered and will enjoy hitting the road again after a 8 month period of non camping. Wireman

[jloco]

Ugh.. not to reassuring. My new unit is scheduled to roll of the line this Friday.
I hope they take a bit of time and do things right.

[RodgerS]

I don't agree with either of these comments as they don't get to the heart of the problem:
"I guess it's just typical how we build them now."
"the quality is not that of mass produced cars/trucks due to the nature of the RVs being made mostly by hand."
------------------------
My thoughts are that from day one the RV industry has been able to avoid coming under the Lemon Laws. Until that changes, the industry will not take the big step of implementing a real quality control system and the dealers will get away with having long repair lines and long fixit times.

(As one owner told me about his trips to mfg, the mfg lines just keep moving, regardless)

So, yes, the owners are the quality control system and the owners are only as good as their motivation to upskill themselves if they are to do their own warranty work and inspections.

Unfortunately, many owners have the mentality of car owners where their cars are subject to the lemon laws and they are use to getting a quick response from car dealer, with some exception. So, understandably, they buy new with warranties thinking that is the way to go to have minimal problems. Well, some get lucky and some suffer severe headaches, with no recourse.

Of course, the better the mfg and dealer, the more they are willing, by their choice, to be better within limits that they set knowing the history and environment they live in full well.

RV means repair vehicle daily. A dream is not reality.

Actually, the more savvy owners have a special edge - it is called preventative maintenance. Like once a year checking all their electrical connections, like grounds for an example, to make sure they are all clean, dry, and tight after all the bouncing around and various conditions. Taking the time to learn about their batteries and how to keep them charged. Understanding they need to own power protection devices to ward off the sins of bad pedestals. Etc. Etc. Making good use of training materials, including internet videos, and mfg information.

I did not mention the forums only because for as much good information one gets, one also gets the opposite, and the less you know the harder it is to sort out..being both a problem of the original posters questions and the responders answers, with a lot of assumptions and misperceptions getting in the way.

[blderman]

Originally Posted by Wireman

I don't really expect it to be perfect upon delivery, but what annoys me is things that could be corrected using a level instead of the "eyeball" method when built. A little extra time to position them.


On another 23RLSW on a dealers lot, the bathroom door was sticking out at the bottom almost 1/2" and flush with the jamb at the top when closed. I guess I notice more things when looking at a unit, not the bling but quality of build.


I've noticed this stuff on $200K motorhomes as well so it's not just a Jayco issue.


I don't know if the workers are paid by piece work, but it may be a industry wide process that causes a lot of quality issues.


Like I said before, I'm baffled by some of the things I see on these new TT when delivered.


Off my soapbox on quality. I'll deal with my unit when delivered and will enjoy hitting the road again after a 8 month period of non camping. Wireman

There is an article somewhere on this forum that stated Jayco employees were paid piecework. And some of the smaller units like mine only take them 8hrs to build from bare frame to rolling out the door. That's way too fast to have any kind of quality control. I will say that I think the 2016 models took a major hit on quality. When I was looking at the 2015 23MBH trailers I was very impressed with the qualith. This year was an unprecedented year for new orders and it's shows on how poorly they are being assembled. I am very happy with the chassis and design though. No other trailer on the market offers the layout and water capacity of the 23mbh.

[cekkk]

Wireman said " I don't know if the workers are paid by piece work, but it may be a industry wide process that causes a lot of quality issues."
I don't know either. But I've mentioned before a Jayco marketing video that shows workers scurrying about like a bunch of gerbils, real slam-bam assembly. It is so bad, at least to my eyes, that it looks like a hidden camera piece expose' by a competitor. That being said, my 4+ year old 320RLDS was put together as I'd expect it to have been when I ordered it. Only two minor warranty fixes that didn't need tending to until near the end of the 2-year warranty period. And I doubt very many owners subject their campers to the abuse mine gets every time I take it down our 5-mile washboard rocky road to the highway. Only thing that came loose was the pedestal table which is barely srewed into the slide floor by necessity. DW just puts pillows on the chairs and it stays in place. So these things can be put together properly. So whether it was put together right at the factory or carefully gone over by the dealer before we got there, it can be right the first time.

[Flapper]

Our fifth is now one year out of warranty. So three seasons of use. From day of delivery to now, we have had the following issues:

1. During PDI slides got stuck. Dealer repaired in an hour. No issues since.
2. Outside hand shower dripped. Dealer replaced at the end of the season.
3. Bad switch caused the awning to stop working (when retracted). Dealer replaced.
4. Last summer, one knob on bathroom faucet would not stay shut and leaked. I replaced with similar from Home Depot.

Otherwise the only things needed to be fixed are because I broke something myself either by backing into it, or adding an "improvement".

Extremely satisfied with the build quality.

[goducks]

Lots of issues aren't really the fault of the MFG. Like switches that quit, faucets that break, fridges that won't cool right, stereos that won't play DVDs, etc. It's the other stuff that's irritating, like crooked cabinet doors, cable/sat wired wrong, leaking slides, screws put in crooked or stripped out. Seems like the RV industry is hiring anyone that can fog a mirror and telling them that if they get X amount of work done you can leave. Friend of mine once worked for a mobile home MFG in his younger days. He told me it was piece work. He had a quota to get and once it was met he went home. He never hardly worked an 8 hr day.
JMO but pay these workers decent hourly pay and make them responsible for their work. If it tacks another $1,000 on the RV so be it. Most wouldn't mind having straight hung cabinets and no leaks for that extra money.

[Wireman]

manufacturers can't control vendor parts quality, other than changing vendors when problems continue with there products.


What they can control is in house build quality. I would gladly pay an extra $1k for better factory quality and better vendor parts.


My PDI will be very detailed and the dealer will fix issues to my satisfaction. Down the road if there are things I can correct on my own, I will when out of warranty.


Been an old backyard mechanic for 50 years, Maintained my class A for 20 years, Built my own house, so not very intimidated by a 23 ft. TT.


Again, looking forward to delivery. Wireman

[Flapper]

My prior post was just to illustrate that at least in one case, there were no issues with build quality. I did need to also mention that my dealer has hundreds of Jayco's on their lot for sale. And we looked at a lot of them - not just 5ths - before purchasing. Every single one was in tip-top shape. Whether that is mostly Jayco or mostly the dealer, I can't say - but since I was buying from the dealer, it went a long way to assure the purchase. There were several other brands whose dealers showed units with clear defects - cabinets, doors, floors, etc. that I just walked away from. Again, the brand or the dealer? Either way, a lost sale for them!

Run away from a dealer that is showing new with obvious defects!

[DanNJanice]

Travel trailers, in particular, seem to be extremely price sensitive. Combine that with the need keep weight down and the fact that these things are considered a recreational item and you have a recipe for low quality.
Having said that Jayco seems to be about middle of the road, quality wise, and better than most when it comes to their warranty.
My real complaints are when cutting corners becomes a safety issue, like water tanks falling off or frame welds cracking.
Or when a couple bucks worth of extra material or time would save customers huge headaches (think seals and roof) down the road.

[Murff]

Our White Hawk 20MRB had a couple of issues. The one we thought was the biggest was the dinette slide didn't seal flush on all four corners. The day we went to pick it up, we noticed, from the inside of the rig, that the slide was not centered in the hole and the seal on one side did not even touch the slide.

We left the trailer with the dealer and the service manager thought they migt have to remove the slide and completely reset it. Luckily, they have a top notch technician that knew how to adjust it. All worked out.

I agree that one should not rush the PDI. I would also suggest that the PDI not be done on a Saturday if the dealer has a number of PDIs scheduled. they will tend to "rush" you through it.

Murff

[Wireman]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to repair obvious issues at the factory than pay a dealer $'s to repair it. I think the buyer would then have a more positive impression of the builder and spread the word of quality work. Maybe I'm over thinking this issue.

Maybe they are hoping that the laymen RV'er will not catch problems because they are uninformed and new to RV'ing. Wireman

[RodgerS]

Yeah, I think you are overthinking the issue. Just look at all the slick marketing brochures.

Why should the mfg care? All the time I read these forum comments and they go nowhere. The new, uninformed buyers drive most of the market.

Rarely do they have a clue until after they have made their purchase and many end up re-buying with a couple of years after they figure out they made a mistake. And the new buyers buy on credit and think its like buying a new car.

You hear how they spent so much money and how terrible the quality is...actually the banks money and the quality is what it has been for years.

How many times, for example, do you read about someone buying a new 5th and then discovering they need to upgrade to another truck...uninformed is standard.

The savvy buyers buy used for cash IMO, except for some of the experienced full timers who know what they want and have no plans to sell, and they don't care anyway as they understand what they are getting into.

And many of the happiest buyers do most of their own maintenance and repair work.

It is easy to figure out the range of quality, there just is no lemon law to force it to be better.

Newmar, in the upper range, had the 2016 Dutch Star owners in revolt over the easy to overload front axle (irv2.com), but guess what they don't have to buy back the coaches because no lemon laws. Now they have offered, I believe, to upgrade the front axle...many months of frustration behind that. So, they solved the problem, but on their own time schedule. Just not the auto world.