Length to weight

NVGun40 · 06-07-2015, 11:03 AM

Looking for some information and opinions. My neighbor recently lost his 2012 Ford F150 and his 32ft Coachman TT to a nasty accident. No one was hurt and both rigs were insured well and he is getting them replaced
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The issue that happened was a combination of a perfect storm, but nevertheless, should be a consideration. His TT weighed in around the 7500 pound mark with a tongue weight around 800lbs (give or take 3 pounds). Which should have been no problem for his F150. They were traveling with minimal gear because they were heading to a full hook up campsite. However, what happened was this. He was traveling about 60MPH on a very slight down grade with a moderate cross wind, when he encountered a nasty frost heave in the highway which caused both the TV and TT to bottom out. At virtually the same instant, a semi with trailer passed, going the opposite direction. The resulting draft wind from the semi along with the bottom out bounce of his TT resulted in his trailer going into a serious sway/whipping. The whip has bad enough that he was not able to maintain control and ended up running off the road. The result was both TV and TT were totaled.

Meanwhile, his friend who witnessed this happening in front of him was driving a Dodge 3500 towing a 30 foot outback. The resulting passing of the semi and hitting the frost heave caused his TT to bottom out (not his TV) but sway and whip were virtually non existent. He was able to maintain control to come to a stop and provide assistance. The semi driver, having seen glimpses of the accident in his mirrors stopped also. His comment on the accident report he filled out for the State Troopers; "That trailer was to long for such a lightweight TV."

Again, a perfect storm of accidents but these are the factors of the accident. While the TT was within the weight limits (all tanks, water, grey and black were empty) of the TV and speed was not a factor, length and weight distribution bars and sway bar set up were. He went with the minimum WDH bars and sway bar needed according to published data on the TT. A secondary determination of trailer length to truck wheel base and weight were also determined to be a factor according to insurance.

While I have never owned a 1/2 ton truck, my thoughts are to accept what has been said as factors to the accident. My question here is:

What is the opinion here regarding length of TT to weight ratio for TV and TT? Has anyone heard of anything similar?

I have seen many occasions of people driving smaller SUV's towing trailers which I considered to big. Then again, in all my years of towing, I have been and am the type to go the extra mile and make sure I have everything necessary and then some.

Please understand, I do not wish to cause a debate or hurt the feelings of 1/2 ton owners. Yet, I have always held to the train of thought, "Just because you (or your TV) are capable of doing a thing (towing a TT based on weight and specs), doesn't mean you should do the thing.

My neighbor decided to upgrade his new truck and is currently looking at a Chevy or GMC 2500 and looking at a new Jayco TT by the way.

jamaddox · 06-07-2015, 12:19 PM

We have a Ford F-150 super crew with towing package and I shied away from one that long. Of course my payload was probably much less than his because of passenger weight and truck topper weight. So much seems to depend on payload and hitch( or so it seems)

Country_Mouse · 06-07-2015, 12:37 PM

I am following because I am a 1/2 ton owner.

You didn't mention what his payload was. It just sounds bigger and heavier than I would ever want to do in our Expedition. I have not heard of length of trailer mattering and there is nothing mentioned in the Ford towing guide about it although I have heard of people on forum talking about wheelbase.

NVGun40 · 06-07-2015, 12:45 PM

I am not sure if I can but I will see if I can get a picture or more. One weight distribution bar is bent about 45 degrees and a chain link snapped. His hitch receiver on the truck broke on the drivers side. The rear axle on the TT was ripped from the mounts and thrust up through the rear of the TT. The truck ended up on its side. State Troopers figured out speed at impact was 53MPH.
His was a four door cab. I am not sure if it was a super crew. He did have the tow package. I will give those Ford F-150s when it comes to fuel economy. He used to smoke my dodge when it came to gas mileage, but when we used to go cutting fire wood, I definitely had a clear advantage getting into the rough stuff with my solid front axle over his independent and with pay load when we were fully loaded with wood. Cab top high all the way back to the tail gate. He would be bottomed out on the springs, while I was just about mid sag and riding smooth.

NVGun40 · 06-07-2015, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country_Mouse

I am following because I am a 1/2 ton owner.

You didn't mention what his payload was. It just sounds bigger and heavier than I would ever want to do in our Expedition. I have not heard of length of trailer mattering and there is nothing mentioned in the Ford towing guide about it although I have heard of people on forum talking about wheelbase.

According to specs his truck should be able to handle around the 9,300 or 9,400 pound loaded trailer weight. All he had in the bed of the truck was a couple bundles of firewood and a 50qt cooler, and some fishing gear. Occupants were himself, his wife and two 14 year old (twins) kids.

cekkk · 06-08-2015, 02:50 PM

The South will Rise Again before the limits of the F150 are agreed upon.

TWP723 · 06-08-2015, 03:28 PM

Seems to me, he was at the precipice of a safe towing weight and a little heavy weight. JM2C

rick danger · 06-08-2015, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekkk

The South will Rise Again before the limits of the F150 are agreed upon.

Charlie Daniels agrees

drk98 · 06-08-2015, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekkk

The South will Rise Again before the limits of the F150 are agreed upon.

That and convince Tundra owners they don't have a 3/4 ton....

**WVDusty** · 06-08-2015, 04:39 PM

Let's not let this turn into a truck war please. Thank you.

RoscoW · 06-08-2015, 05:20 PM

There is a rule of thumb for trailer length vs wheel base, 110" TV wheelbase is good for a 20' trailer. Every 4" of wheelbase adds 1' of trailer. (google search) but it seems just that a guideline. Some other factors that can get carried into the discussion are rear overhang from the axle centreline to hitch ball. A short overhang (Chrysler 300) will react very differently to trailer induced sway than say an extended body van with 5-6 ft between axle and hitch.

Ross..

usmc616 · 06-09-2015, 07:19 AM

I tow my 32BHDS, 35' 6", with my V-10 Excursion. I have towed from Maine to Florida with it. I use a Reese Dual Cam and try to never exceed 62mph.
I also have a 2013 F-150 Crew Cab with the Ecoboost engine which is rated to tow close to 10.000lbs.
One time my Excursion was in the shop and I needed to get the TT to a CG 25 miles away via local roads. I decided to use the F-150, and I never exceeded 50mph. I felt the TT push my TV when slowing on a decline. I did make sure my brake controller was set up properly, on flat ground, before I started the trip to the CG.
My experience in that short trip was not enjoyable to the extent that I decided to store my TT at the CG until my Excursion was available to tow it back home.
This was my one time experience and I do believe the F-150 is a great TV and do not doubt those that tow heavy TT's with it, but I will not do it again.
I do not think the length was a factor, my Excursion and F-150 are almost the same length, but feel the weight of the TV is the factor.

SkyBound · 06-09-2015, 08:45 AM

I am very familiar with the newer F150s and am an avid member of the online forums where they discuss the truck in full detail just as we do here with Jaycos. I tow a 28BHS weighing in at 6500lbs and 30.9 feet long from tongue to bumper.

I believe the F150 and most other higher capability half tons are great tow vehicles for most trailers. They have a limit, and I feel that my trailer is at the upper end of said limit. I have had to add a few extras to my truck to make the towing experience better and safer, including heavier duty tires, extra rear springs and an upgraded tranny mount (an issue specific to my model/wheelbase). I also chose a premium hitch, the E4.

Pulling power isn't everything! Stability and control is most important and while a 3/4 or 1 ton may provide superior characteristics, they may not always be practical for a daily driver. The half ton market can cover heavier towing to an extent, but may require a bit of aftermarket mods for those that take their trucks upwards of light duty.

If the gentleman mentioned in the original post would have gone with a better hitch, better tires, shocks, springs, etc. the outcome may have been different, who knows. While I am a full endorser of the F150 EcoBoost, hooking up a 30+ foot heavy trailer to a naked base model F150 with a mediocre hitch is not a good idea.

TWP723 · 06-09-2015, 08:54 AM

I also believe speed was a highly contributing factor as well. 60 mph? downhill? Um..no. Again..JM2C

Filthy-Beast · 06-09-2015, 09:11 AM

I read many answers that state " I tow x with no problems." The simple fact is with a good WD anti-sway hitch and the farther you are away from all your max limits for GVRW, GCWR, GAWR RAWR, the easier it is to make it through dark matter hitting the fan unscathed.

Don't plan and size for your regular towing trip, plan and size for when things go wrong.

Know and plan for what you would do in different situations. Like a blowout or the situation in the OPs post. Thinking about it and even practicing the physical moves required could make all the difference in the split seconds you need.

Subaru297 · 06-09-2015, 10:20 AM

Our old 2013 F150 had a 157" wheelbase vs our F250 with 156". Very comparable wheelbase except for the extra 1000lbs and stiffer suspension of the 250. Not really apples to apples...

We felt that pulling our 31' 6500lbs trailer was too close to the edge for our 1/2 ton. Power and breaking were fine but stability was lacking. The wind and passing vehicles would push us all over the place. Trailer was level and had 13% tongue weight using a Blue-Ox SwayPro.

Pulling the same trailer with the 250 is much more comfortable. I still know it is there but I don't feel like the trailer is in control anymore! And I have the piece of mind of knowing that I have lots of wiggle room in payload and towing capacity.

I would bet that the truck in question was overloaded a bit with that size trailer. One of the main reasons we upgraded was I didn't know how the 1/2 ton would react in an emergency situation. Tail wagging the dog situation.....
Also 800lbs of tongue weight and a 7500lbs trailer is right at 10% tongue weight. I think travel trailers do much better in the 13-15% range. 10% is too light on the tongue. IMO

Glad everyone is ok.

TWP723 · 06-09-2015, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru297

Our old 2013 F150 had a 157" wheelbase vs our F250 with 156". Very comparable wheelbase except for the extra 1000lbs and stiffer suspension of the 250. Not really apples to apples...

We felt that pulling our 31' 6500lbs trailer was too close to the edge for our 1/2 ton. Power and breaking were fine but stability was lacking. The wind and passing vehicles would push us all over the place. Trailer was level and had 13% tongue weight using a Blue-Ox SwayPro.

Pulling the same trailer with the 250 is much more comfortable. I still know it is there but I don't feel like the trailer is in control anymore! And I have the piece of mind of knowing that I have lots of wiggle room in payload and towing capacity.

I would bet that the truck in question was overloaded a bit with that size trailer. One of the main reasons we upgraded was I didn't know how the 1/2 ton would react in an emergency situation. Tail wagging the dog situation.....
Also 800lbs of tongue weight and a 7500lbs trailer is right at 10% tongue weight. I think travel trailers do much better in the 13-15% range. 10% is too light on the tongue. IMO

Glad everyone is ok.

Agree.

BJR · 06-09-2015, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NVGun40

The semi driver, having seen glimpses of the accident in his mirrors stopped also. His comment on the accident report he filled out for the State Troopers; "That trailer was to long for such a lightweight TV."

Quoted for irony. Don't semi's weigh a fraction of the trailer and are half the length?

There are a lot of variables in this equation and you it will be impossible to have even a rule of thumb everyone agrees to...

mike837go · 06-09-2015, 10:47 AM

Very interesting concept!

We tow with a 1/4 ton pickup.

The old trailer was 18' and had near zero influence on the handling of the truck. The new trailer is 5' longer, 18" taller and almost 1,000 pounds heavier.

The Tacoma noticed the difference! The pressure wave from passing trucks and larger SUV's can be felt as a twitch in the cab just as the front of the passing truck reaches the rear bumper of the trailer.

I am adding a WDH to the rig to improve front tire grip.

The incident you described has made me consider making my F350 more comfy and not using the Tacoma for towing any more.

mike837go · 06-09-2015, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJR

... Don't semi's weigh a fraction of the trailer and are half the length?...

Semi-trailers are usually 40' long (many exceptions apply).

They gain a HUGE advantage in stability by having the trailer's axles near the rear of the trailer and put over 50% of the trailer's (and cargo's) weight on the tow vehicle.

Then we can start discussing the fact that the tow's hitch is slightly AHEAD of the rear axle.

You can't compare a purpose-built rig with close to 100 years of improvements to the built-in compromises of a tow vehicle that has to do more than tow.

Next, we can discuss closer coupling of the two braking systems.

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