Tow Vehicle and Payload Capacity

[TommyAjax]

I just bought the 2015 the Jayflight 28bhbe (great trailer). I had them put a weight distribution hitch on my truck. It distributes the weight over the whole truck not just the back, so my truck does not squat. It has the hitch and then two armlike things with chains (kind of works like the handles on a wheel barrel to distribute the weight). I am running 2013 F-150 ecoboost with towing capacity (per manufacturer) of 9,200. The weight of the trailer is approx. 6100 (not fiberglass option, fiberglass makes it heavier approx. 7100 with fiberglass option) with capacity to 9200. I figure with it full of all our stuff I am looking at about 7,200 pounds towing. Maybe want to look into that weight distribution hitch.

You have hit the nail on the head...my truck is "rated" to pull 10,000 lbs vs yours at 9,200 lbs. But what is your payload capacity and GVWR? The weight distributing hitch is "shifting" weight from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the front axle of the truck and the trailer axles to help it ride level and take some strain off the back end.

When you do the math and add up the weight of the truck itself, the people and the options on the truck including the weight distributing hitch, and the trailer tongue weight (advertised at 610 lbs but likely higher) how much does it all weigh? This is where I am hitting a number greater than the GVWR, in my case 6900 lbs. I am under on the GCVWR and the GAWR's

Any chance you can provide the trailer yellow tag weight for that 28BHBE?

[blderman]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

I just bought the 2015 the Jayflight 28bhbe (great trailer). I had them put a weight distribution hitch on my truck. It distributes the weight over the whole truck not just the back, so my truck does not squat. It has the hitch and then two armlike things with chains (kind of works like the handles on a wheel barrel to distribute the weight). I am running 2013 F-150 ecoboost with towing capacity (per manufacturer) of 9,200. The weight of the trailer is approx. 6100 (not fiberglass option, fiberglass makes it heavier approx. 7100 with fiberglass option) with capacity to 9200. I figure with it full of all our stuff I am looking at about 7,200 pounds towing. Maybe want to look into that weight distribution hitch.

You have hit the nail on the head...my truck is "rated" to pull 10,000 lbs vs yours at 9,200 lbs. But what is your payload capacity and GVWR? The weight distributing hitch is "shifting" weight from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the front axle of the truck and the trailer axles to help it ride level and take some strain off the back end.

When you do the math and add up the weight of the truck itself, the people and the options on the truck including the weight distributing hitch, and the trailer tongue weight (advertised at 610 lbs but likely higher) how much does it all weigh? This is where I am hitting a number greater than the GVWR, in my case 6900 lbs. I am under on the GCVWR and the GAWR's

Any chance you can provide the trailer yellow tag weight for that 28BHBE?

The problem you are having is why I stayed away from the Ram 1500 trucks even though I prefer Ram over Ford. They just have too low of payload capacity. In my opinion the 28bhe will overload your Ram 1500 by a lot.

[peobey]

Wouldn't adding all the extra cargo that normally rides in the truck into the RV be beneficial to the TV?

[MommieMara]

So we have a 28BHBE and are towing with a Tundra. So far our trips have been within 4 hours of home. One with significant hills. We tow with a Tundra with a 5.7, 10,500 tow rating and just shy of 1600 payload. We need to hit the scale but I'm guessing we are over payload by a bit but I don't think it is to much based on numbers from people with the same trailer. While I'd love to be towing it with a bigger truck and that may happen down the road right now we own the Tundra and it has been doing the job without any concerns. We take it to DC in June and MI in July so those will be our big trips and maybe I'll change my mind. We feel in love with the 28BHBE and it fit our family perfectly. After extensive research here and on the Toyota boards we determined it was within the margins of what the truck could do safely. We went with it because I don't want to be looking to upgrade again in 18 months like I did with our PUP. We wanted to make sure we got the TT we were going to keep for many years to come. So as of right now we feel good about our combination but if that changes we would look at other trucks.

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by peobey

Wouldn't adding all the extra cargo that normally rides in the truck into the RV be beneficial to the TV?

The problem is that I am hitting the GVWR of the truck just by putting the family into it and hooking up the trailer - nothing else in the truck. The law says that I can't put the wife or kids into the trailer when it is in motion...also doesn't say that I can't strap them to the roof of the trailer...hmmmm

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

Hi Everyone,

Would like to ask if anyone is using a Ram 1500 as a tow vehicle? I bought a 2014 1500 Sport 4x4 with 3.92 gearing last fall with the plan of upgrading from my Jayco pop-up to a travel trailer. Now that I am doing the math, I have realised that I am bumping up against the payload capacity for the truck if I get anything with more than a 550-600 lb tongue weight even though the advertising pumps "pull up to 10,000 lbs".

The GVWR of the Ram is 6900 lbs and I had it weighed today with a full tank of gas and me sitting in it and came out to 6000 lbs. That leaves me 900 lbs for wife, two kids, and the hitch. Figure about 250 lbs for the wife and kids, 65 lbs for the hitch leaves me at 585 lbs for the trailer.

We would like to get the Jay Flight 28BHBE which has a 610 lb tongue weight according to the brochure. Can my Ram safely handle this trailer? The GAWR has room, the GCVWR has room, but the payload is the issue. Would I get a ticket if I was slightly over? Has anyone been cited for being overweight on the tow vehicle payload capacity?

Looking for any insight that the group can offer...thanks

I don't drive a Ram so I can't offer any insight into the towing experiance. IMO though, if that truly is the tongue weight, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Realize that there could be, under very remote circumstances, be a liability issue should you get into a wreck and be at fault AND they look into payload capacity and actual tongue weight.

I don't believe people normally get cited for this though from weigh stations. Those places primarily look at axle weight as they drive over scales. Think about it, for them to nail you for it, they would have to look at your individual truck sticker, calculate payload, weigh your family and contents, unhitch your trailer, weight the actual tongue weight and then make a determination. All while there is a line up building down the highway. In other words, they aren't going to waste time checking payload on normal use vehicles UNLESS there is a specific reason ie: accident. Then it probably wont happen but it's possible.

I'm not saying do it, I'm just saying I personally wouldn't be worried about that small of a difference if everything else is within limits.

ALSO SHOULD MENTION - I have yet to find a trailer that weighs what a brochure says. My newest fifth wheel is significantly heavier (overall) than what the brochure says. It's tough to make choices based on close weights without the actual unit.

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by MommieMara

So we have a 28BHBE and are towing with a Tundra. So far our trips have been within 4 hours of home. One with significant hills. We tow with a Tundra with a 5.7, 10,500 tow rating and just shy of 1600 payload. We need to hit the scale but I'm guessing we are over payload by a bit but I don't think it is to much based on numbers from people with the same trailer. While I'd love to be towing it with a bigger truck and that may happen down the road right now we own the Tundra and it has been doing the job without any concerns. We take it to DC in June and MI in July so those will be our big trips and maybe I'll change my mind. We feel in love with the 28BHBE and it fit our family perfectly. After extensive research here and on the Toyota boards we determined it was within the margins of what the truck could do safely. We went with it because I don't want to be looking to upgrade again in 18 months like I did with our PUP. We wanted to make sure we got the TT we were going to keep for many years to come. So as of right now we feel good about our combination but if that changes we would look at other trucks.

We feel the same way. We bought our PUP about 5 years ago when the kids were toddlers...now the kids are getting bigger and lack of easily accessible storage in the PUP is driving the wife, and in turn me, crazy. Time to upgrade to a TT. I bought the truck last year in anticipation of the larger trailer and went by the tow ratings (10,000 lbs) thinking that I would get a 6,000 lb trailer and by the time I throw on some water and cargo I might max out around 7,500 lbs giving me a 2,500 lbs cushion for going up/down the big hills.

As I have mentioned, I am good on all of the numbers except for the GVWR if I go with the 28BHBE.

The GCWR is 15,650 lbs and if I say the trailer is 7,500 lbs full loaded, put the wife and kids in the truck, I have a TGCW of 13,800 so well under.

Both axles are rated to 3900 lbs - Cat Scale says that my front is at 3380 and rear is 2620 lbs, so with tuning the WDH I should be able to stay well under their capacity when adding the trailer.

Tires are rated as 114S which shows they can handle 2,600 lbs so 5,200 lbs per axle so I seem to be okay there.

But the GVWR is 6900 lbs. The scale showed the truck with me in it and full tank of gas was at 6000lbs. This is where I am stuck when I add 350 lbs for the wife, kids, and WDH. It would leave only 550 lbs for the tongue weight.

Not sure why the GCWR of 6900 lbs when the axle ratings would indicate 7800 lbs (3900 x 2).

Even the NHTSA towing guide is confusing:
U.S. Department of Transportation - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) - Towing A Trailer, Being Equipped for Safety - Title Page and Table of Contents - DOT HS 809 433 - April 2002
GVWR is defined as the "Amount the tow vehicle may weigh when fully loaded". They also state "Remember that the gross axle weight rating listed on the tow vehicle’s certification label must not be exceeded."
The wording on the axle rating is much more forceful than the GVWR and so does that mean that I am okay as long as I don't exceed them (gives me an extra 900 lbs when properly balanced with WDH)

And the GCWR is defined as the "Permissible combined weight of the tow vehicle, trailer, passengers, equipment, fuel, etc., that the vehicle can handle".

I am slowly reaching the conclusion that I would be fine with a 750 lbs hitch weight (when fully loaded) and a good WDH. I would be well under on the GCWR and GAWR, and only slightly over the GVWR when the gas tank is full. Still going to look at other trailer options with lighter hitch weights since we don't plan on buying until the fall...

I really appreciate all of the feedback...thanks

[KYCAMPER]

Great site country mouse. Here's another I have found useful. I ended upgrading My TV also due to Silverado 5.3 being a little too anemic on hills for my TT. Initially looked at 2500 but found the added cost to go to a 3500 was only about $1200 so I sprung for the extra. I hope to upgrade to a larger 5th wheel down the road.
Travel Trailer Weight Calculator

[TommyAjax]

As I continue to read up on this, on some other forums people have claimed that a WDH will reduce the tongue weight load on the tow vehicle by re-distributing some of that weight back to the trailer axles (same concept that has the front axles taking some of the load from the rear axles of the truck).

So my next question is, does the WDH reduce the weight applied to the tow vehicle as payload? For example, if the tongue weight is 600 lbs, and the WDH redistributes that weight among the axles as 1/3 to each, the tow vehicle would take on 400 lbs of payload/hitch weight (200 lbs each to the front and rear), and the trailer axles take 200 lbs of the payload weight to be applied against the trailer payload capacity and not the tow vehicle.

Edit: this is supported by the example provided by CamperBob

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

So the WDH "shifted" 120 lbs back onto the TT and reduced the truck payload by that amount.

[trainer51]

Hi everyone,

Is anyone towing with a Tacoma Long Bed V6 truck? My TV is an F350, but a friend wants to get into TT's that he could tow with his Tacoma. Any suggestions as to trailer size?

Thanks,

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

As I continue to read up on this, on some other forums people have claimed that a WDH will reduce the tongue weight load on the tow vehicle by re-distributing some of that weight back to the trailer axles (same concept that has the front axles taking some of the load from the rear axles of the truck).

So my next question is, does the WDH reduce the weight applied to the tow vehicle as payload? For example, if the tongue weight is 600 lbs, and the WDH redistributes that weight among the axles as 1/3 to each, the tow vehicle would take on 400 lbs of payload/hitch weight (200 lbs each to the front and rear), and the trailer axles take 200 lbs of the payload weight to be applied against the trailer payload capacity and not the tow vehicle.

Edit: this is supported by the example provided by CamperBob

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

So the WDH "shifted" 120 lbs back onto the TT and reduced the truck payload by that amount.

This may help explain it some. Even if it "reduced" weight, I'm not sure how you could ever accurately weigh it.

Does a Weight Distribution Hitch Allow More Tongue Weight on the Ball | etrailer.com

My understanding is it doesn't reduce it, just places more of it on the front axle too. Kind of like you lifting up on a ball in your hitch. Your rear axle won't "feel" as much, but your front axle will now bear added load.

[TommyAjax]

Originally Posted by UPCamper

This may help explain it some. Even if it "reduced" weight, I'm not sure how you could ever accurately weigh it.

Does a Weight Distribution Hitch Allow More Tongue Weight on the Ball | etrailer.com

My understanding is it doesn't reduce it, just places more of it on the front axle too. Kind of like you lifting up on a ball in your hitch. Your rear axle won't "feel" as much, but your front axle will now bear added load.

Agreed...but what shows in the real-world example from CamperBob is that when the WDH bars are engaged, front axle and trailer axle weights increased (300 lbs to the front, 120 lbs to the trailer), the rear axle decreased by 420 lbs. Overall, the weight of the tow vehicle decreased by 120 lbs and trailer increased by the 120 lbs, but the combined weight remained the same.

From the weights before he added the WDH and TT, assuming the WDH at around 60 lbs, it would suggest that the actual TT tongue weight in his case was around 700 lbs. So after engaging the bars, the tongue weight to be applied against the tow vehicle as payload drops to 580 lbs, not the full 700 lbs.

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600
Add DW, Wondermutt, misc belongings = 300
Est. Total = 5900

[UPCamper]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

Agreed...but what shows in the real-world example from CamperBob is that when the WDH bars are engaged, front axle and trailer axle weights increased (300 lbs to the front, 120 lbs to the trailer), the rear axle decreased by 420 lbs. Overall, the weight of the tow vehicle decreased by 120 lbs and trailer increased by the 120 lbs, but the combined weight remained the same.

From the weights before he added the WDH and TT, assuming the WDH at around 60 lbs, it would suggest that the actual TT tongue weight in his case was around 700 lbs. So after engaging the bars, the tongue weight to be applied against the tow vehicle as payload drops to 580 lbs, not the full 700 lbs.

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600
Add DW, Wondermutt, misc belongings = 300
Est. Total = 5900

I think there may be some weight "lost" as it distributes it across all axels, truck and trailer. Whether front or rear axle on the truck it's still payload. The "weight" that is distributed to the trailer axles is what would have been tongue weight but is now trailer weight. In either case, I SWAG is the gain is fairly minimal and shouldn't be used to increase allowable payload of the truck.

[Subaru297]

As far as I understand it a WDH does not reduce or affect your tongue weight. Arguments can be made either way but it is probably safer or more conservative to say that the weight transfer caused from engaging the WDH bars does not reduce tongue weight.

For your other question. Your truck was built on an assembly line along with many other trucks with many available options. It is cheaper to use the same axles for all models so they are built to specs required for a more heavy duty application.
GVWR will essentially be set to the weakest link of the vehicle in question. In your case with the Sport 4x4 I would guess the suspension was upgraded or changed for a better ride offroad at the cost of payload capacity.
Your motor is the same as other Rams.
Your gearing is better suited than most.
Transmission will be the same.
Axles.....same.
Brakes are probably the same??
Transmission cooler? This could be different but I would think this would affect tow capacity not payload.

So "theoretically" if you identify your weakest link and upgrade that you should get a more comfortable towing experience. Upgrading your suspension with airbags or Timbrens would help with payload handling (not capacity). Or getting a set of coils off a higher rated GVWR Ram may be an option.

None of this will increase the "legal" payload capacity but could help if you are towing right on the line. Certainly with peace of mind and stability.

[Subaru297]

As an example the only difference (I have read) between my F250's 9900lbs GVWR and a 10000+ lbs F350 is the spring pack.

In reality there are probably a few other changes as well but.....

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by trainer51

Hi everyone,

Is anyone towing with a Tacoma Long Bed V6 truck? My TV is an F350, but a friend wants to get into TT's that he could tow with his Tacoma. Any suggestions as to trailer size?

Thanks,

You would likely get a better response to your question if you opened a new thread as many members may never see it buried in this one.

[TommyAjax]

Let me re-do the math...I used the wrong starting point earlier. Should be a starting point of 5600 lbs for the truck as weighed, not the 5900 lbs which included wife and dogs.

He added 980 lbs of payload/tongue weight to his truck (going from 5600 lbs to 6580 lbs on the truck axles). If we assume the WDH weighs about 60 lbs, then the trailer hitch weight is about 920 lbs to make up the total 980 lbs added as payload to the truck GVW. The GCWV is 13240 lbs.

He then reduced the tow vehicle GVW by 120 lbs but increased the trailer GVW by 120 lbs by engaging the WDH bars. The GCWV remains the same at 13240 lbs.

It has not changed the GVWR of the truck or the trailer, but it has reduced the amount of payload/GVW on the truck axles by putting some of it on the trailer axles.

Didn't mean to imply that the WDH reduces the tongue weight or changes the truck GVWR. What I am trying to say is that a portion of the tongue weight (ie. 10-20%) is transferred to the trailer axles and would count against the trailer GVW rather than the truck GVW.

Again, the example provided by CamperBob:

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

Again, I am very appreciative of all of the discussion on this from the group...we are now leaning away from the 28BHBE and considering the 26BH which has a 485 lb advertised hitch weight vs the 610 lbs on the BHBE which would put me under on all of the capacity points and is $10k cheaper.

Also considering a Keystone Bullet 272BHS which is the same floor plan as the 28BHBE but has a 510 lbs hitch weight and is same price as Jayco 28BHBE.

[eldermike]

Don't forget to factor in unsprung weight. The truck is not supporting unsprung weight. That's not on the sticker but it's not the only thing missing either; and since we are required to do the math to make these decision lets be sure and do some study of mechanicals and be fair with ourselves the same as with taxes.

Subtract all the unsprung weight and go buy a bigger camper and relax.

[blderman]

Originally Posted by TommyAjax

Let me re-do the math...I used the wrong starting point earlier. Should be a starting point of 5600 lbs for the truck as weighed, not the 5900 lbs which included wife and dogs.

He added 980 lbs of payload/tongue weight to his truck (going from 5600 lbs to 6580 lbs on the truck axles). If we assume the WDH weighs about 60 lbs, then the trailer hitch weight is about 920 lbs to make up the total 980 lbs added as payload to the truck GVW. The GCWV is 13240 lbs.

He then reduced the tow vehicle GVW by 120 lbs but increased the trailer GVW by 120 lbs by engaging the WDH bars. The GCWV remains the same at 13240 lbs.

It has not changed the GVWR of the truck or the trailer, but it has reduced the amount of payload/GVW on the truck axles by putting some of it on the trailer axles.

Didn't mean to imply that the WDH reduces the tongue weight or changes the truck GVWR. What I am trying to say is that a portion of the tongue weight (ie. 10-20%) is transferred to the trailer axles and would count against the trailer GVW rather than the truck GVW.

Again, the example provided by CamperBob:

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

Again, I am very appreciative of all of the discussion on this from the group...we are now leaning away from the 28BHBE and considering the 26BH which has a 485 lb advertised hitch weight vs the 610 lbs on the BHBE which would put me under on all of the capacity points and is $10k cheaper.

Also considering a Keystone Bullet 272BHS which is the same floor plan as the 28BHBE but has a 510 lbs hitch weight and is same price as Jayco 28BHBE.

I looked at the Keystone 272BHS. If I recall correctly it's water tank is ahead of the axles so as soon as you put water in it you will be nearing the same tongue weight as the 28BHBE. If you can get by with smaller bunks the 23MBH actually has a lot of room inside for being a smaller overall trailer.

[Lollygagger77]

I would not worry about it, Your ram is fine for that trailer, I have never had any issues with my old trailer or the new one (Only pulled the new one 200 miles). Yes I have airbags in my truck. I have a buddy who runs airbags, puts an ATV in the bed, and pulls his 27ft TT just fine all over (also has Ram 1500). Now if you are pulling in the mountains then I would think you need bigger breaks/motor on the TV, but you are just fine with that set up. Plus I am sure there is Safety factor worked into everything.