Towing the 26BH with a Toyota Tacoma

[Raugustin]

Thanks Ken,

When I indicated appropriate, that meant between 10 - 15% that is recommended. Those of us that have higher end or loaded 1/2 tons need to know what our tongue weights are and we need to distribute the weight in the trailer to dial in the appropriate tongue weight. The real problem is that the added tongue weight increases the payload to or above your calculated GVWR. What most people and calculators don't consider is that the WDH, which is mandatory over 5K, will change the TV's GVW by shifting payload (including some of the weight applied by the tongue) from the rear of the TV back to the TT's axles and the TV's front axles. This is something that cannot be calculated and can only be determined by weighing on a CAT scale. The 10-15 % range is a recommendation, my trucks manual only indicates 10%...most Gov transport sites also only indicate 10%. I have also read recommendations that say you only need 9%. Typically most unloaded/new trailers seem to be balanced at around 10%. The higher percentage is required more so for the heavier/longer trailers. Trailers with wide stance axles, bring in another dimension as they are more stable and require less tongue weight. I understand there are challenges with the location of the storage areas within some trailers but balancing the trailer is something that must be done. I think the % tongue weight will be determined by each persons comfort level, I have purchased a Sherline scale so that I know what my tongue weight is and will be every time I hitch up, cheap investment that I recommend everyone gets especially those that are close to their TV GVWR.
Ron

Originally Posted by RightYouAreKen

Sure, to an extent. But, the general guidelines are that you need 10-15% of the total trailer weight on the hitch, with the upper end of that range being preferred for stable towing. If you try to load too much on the rear of a trailer to lighten tongue weight you can end up with a very unstable tow. Also, if you ever tow with anything other than totally empty tanks, you have very little control over where that weight ends up. Most likely it's going to be in front of the axles contributing to more tongue weight, especially the fresh water tank.

Another thing to consider is that the tongue weights listed are just estimates. The tongue weight for my 24fbs is listed in the Jayco literature as 605 lbs. I weighed it totally empty and it was more like 640 lbs, I'm sure some of that coming from the weight of the wd hitch. My literature shows the 26bh at 560 lbs dry hitch weight which leaves you very little room for error.

When I had my Tacoma and we were looking at trailers, we really liked the 19rd, but ruled it out because its hitch weight of 510 and overall weight of 3970 lbs was cutting it really close. The 26bh is a lot more trailer than that.

[RightYouAreKen]

Yes, maybe we are saying the same thing in a different way. I worried over ratings extensively when I chose my trailer because my truck has limited payload and I needed to keep hitch weight below 900 lbs to stay in ratings. Happily I've confirmed I have been able to do so via CAT scale weights.

I still think that a 26bh is way to much trailer for a Tacoma though.

[Raugustin]

Hi Ken,

you may very well be right, but if he can manage his payload in both the TV and TT and meet the numbers then he should be OK. We are all big boys here, all we can offer is the right information...lets face it anyone reading these posts is far better equipped to make the right decision, then they would be, given the advise of those "experts" that sell these things. And for those that were talked into buying a TT that's boarder line or a bit on the high side, the advise from this forum should be to give the right information, this way they can mange their loads better and minimize their risk. You and I know that many of us have and will haul more that the TV's capabilities, people have invested in tow vehicles and are not simply going to go out and buy new ones once they find out they are hauling too much load, however, the seed should be planted and they will be better informed so that they can make the right decision. I am one of those that is boarder line and wished that I found this site sooner, however, I will have to manage my loads and be as smart and safe as I possibly can be when operating with the trailer in tow. Simply meeting the numbers also doesn't make one safe...age, condition & maintenance is even dangerous than being overweight.

Originally Posted by RightYouAreKen

Yes, maybe we are saying the same thing in a different way. I worried over ratings extensively when I chose my trailer because my truck has limited payload and I needed to keep hitch weight below 900 lbs to stay in ratings. Happily I've confirmed I have been able to do so via CAT scale weights.

I still think that a 26bh is way to much trailer for a Tacoma though.

[lagman]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! Being an engineer, I decided to get out my CAT print out (which has the front and rear axle weights of the Tacoma), dig up all the capacities I could find for the Tacoma and 26BH, plug in what I know about the TT and expected additional load, and crunch the numbers myself. Here is what I came up with. It appears if I can achieve 10% of the TT weight on the hitch, all the numbers are within range with the exception of the tongue weight, which is 10lbs over. I also bumped up the anticipated weight of the camping gear from 300 to 500lbs based on your advice. I'm interested to get your feedback. Is this an unsafe combo?

[Raugustin]

Hi lagman,
How are you on GVW vs GVWR, that's where most 1/2 tons fail. I know, I will be over my GVWR by about 150 lbs but under on my GAWR's. just remember when using a WDH you shift the weight that is applied to the box between the rear axle and the hitch including the tongue weight towards the TV's front axle and towards the TT's axles. In other words, your GVW will be less as a result of this shift. All the calculations that are used are for a WCH, a WDH changes the GVW of the TV. Yes it may only be marginal, but when you talking about 10 - 100 lbs it may be the game changer.
Ron

Originally Posted by lagman

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! Being an engineer, I decided to get out my CAT print out (which has the front and rear axle weights of the Tacoma), dig up all the capacities I could find for the Tacoma and 26BH, plug in what I know about the TT and expected additional load, and crunch the numbers myself. Here is what I came up with. It appears if I can achieve 10% of the TT weight on the hitch, all the numbers are within range with the exception of the tongue weight, which is 10lbs over. I also bumped up the anticipated weight of the camping gear from 300 to 500lbs based on your advice. I'm interested to get your feedback. Is this an unsafe combo?Attachment 6519

[lagman]

GVW comes in 30lbs lower than the TV GVWR. I didn't attempt to re-calculate for the effects of the WDH (except to add 100lbs to the tongue weight to account for the actual weight of the WDH).. I figured this would be worst case and adding the WDH would only improve the numbers..

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by lagman

GVW comes in 30lbs lower than the TV GVWR...... snip

IMO 30lbs remaining is the deal breaker, you can't create more payload capacity unless you remove weight from the TV..

Example using your data: (650lb tongue weight) - (30lbs remaining payload) = 620lbs over TV GVWR.

The WDH will distribute a small percentage of the 650lbs back to the TT axles...., maybe 10% to 20% value (only a CAT scale can confirm, all TV/TT combinations are different).

NOTE: In reality the WDH is distributing (to TV front axle/TT axles) weight off the TV's rear axle, so the weight being distributed "in-total" in most cases is less than the actual 650lbs placed on the hitch ball (the 650lbs doesn't go away).

Bob

[lagman]

I may need a little more explanation.. The GVW is 30lbs under the TV GVWR, and as the spreadsheet I posted shows, I'm 145lbs under the max Payload of the TV. Why would I need more payload capacity?

Dan

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

IMO 30lbs remaining is the deal breaker, you can't create more payload capacity unless you remove weight from the TV..

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Dan,

Fair question....., a TV's published payload is inclusive of the same TV's specified GVWR, thus GVWR trumps payload capacity if the TV's GVWR weight limit is met first. Also, I believe that a TV's payload capacity is based on the curb weight of the same vehicle. As one adds passenger weight, cargo weight, and TV options the payload capacity is reduced.

Bob

[Raugustin]

Hi Dan,

if your under your GVWR you should be good. Just make sure that your rear axle GVW is within limits.

Originally Posted by lagman

I may need a little more explanation.. The GVW is 30lbs under the TV GVWR, and as the spreadsheet I posted shows, I'm 145lbs under the max Payload of the TV. Why would I need more payload capacity?

Dan

[lagman]

I should be ok on rear axle GVW (I assume I measure that against rear GAWR, correct?). If so, it is rated at 3110 and in this scenario, I'm only loading it to 2871. I was actually surprised that I didn't end up closer to the threshold.

Dan

Originally Posted by Raugustin

Hi Dan,

if your under your GVWR you should be good. Just make sure that your rear axle GVW is within limits.

[Rustic Eagle]

Dan,

Just want to make sure I didn't mis-interpret your earlier post where you presented a graph inclusive of your CAT scale data.

My post #27 response is based on the fact that the Tacoma axle weights reflected under "actual" came from your CAT scale certificate as implied by your statement "my CAT print out (which has the front and rear axle weights of the Tacoma)".

Pleae advise.

Bob

[lagman]

The "actual" columns are the CAT scale results plus the additional hitch weight of the trailer.

Dan

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Dan,

Just want to make sure I didn't mis-interpret your earlier post where you presented a graph inclusive of your CAT scale data.

My post #27 response is based on the fact that the Tacoma axle weights reflected under "actual" came from your CAT scale certificate as implied by your statement "my CAT print out (which has the front and rear axle weights of the Tacoma)".

Pleae advise.

Bob

[lagman]

Sorry, I should clarify. The actual GVW on the spreadsheet is assuming the TT is connected (includes the hitch weight). When I say 30lbs is remaining, that is after everything is hooked up. Same for the actual payload (145lbs is what should be remaining after the TT is hooked up). Sorry for the confusion. I should have named that column "Anticipated" instead of "Actual".

Dan

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Dan,

Just want to make sure I didn't mis-interpret your earlier post where you presented a graph inclusive of your CAT scale data.

My post #27 response is based on the fact that the Tacoma axle weights reflected under "actual" came from your CAT scale certificate as implied by your statement "my CAT print out (which has the front and rear axle weights of the Tacoma)".

Pleae advise.

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Oh, so you are saying that the Tacoma axle weights under "actual" shown on your graph are not representative of what is stated on the CAT Scale certificate (?).

Bob

[lagman]

This is from the CAT certificate:

Steer Axle: 2598.75
Drive Axle: 2221.00

On the spreadsheet I posted, under the "actual" column:

Front: 2598.75
Rear: 2871

The difference between that and the CAT print-out is the 650lb tongue weight, which I added in to give me an idea of what the rating would be if I owned the TT and pulled the TV/TT up to the scale. Since I do not yet own the TT, the best I can do is estimate what it will be.

Dan

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Oh, so you are saying that the Tacoma axle weights under "actual" shown on your graph are not representative of what is stated on the CAT Scale certificate (?).

Bob

[Raugustin]

Hi Dan,

Those are not the same CAT scale numbers that you have on post # 5. Which ones should be used?

[lagman]

The numbers in my last post are straight off the sheet. Post #5 was from yesterday.. I had (unsuccessfully) tried to recall the numbers from memory while I was at work.

Dan

Originally Posted by Raugustin

Hi Dan,

Those are not the same CAT scale numbers that you have on post # 5. Which ones should be used?

[Rustic Eagle]

Dan,

Thank you, now I see what your train of thought was behind the graph and how you used the CAT data.

The altering of the the TV's rear axle weight is what thru me off.., I'm from the school that only a CAT scale can confirm an axle weight so I took the axle weights as "actual" CAT data.

Based on your clarifications, please ignore the first two sentences in my prior post #27.

So, based on your assumed loaded TV GVW of 5,470lbs (30lbs under GVWR) you would be good to go assuming all other weight limits are not exceeded. IMO it will take considerable effort on your part insuring that your proposed TV/TT combination remains within specified limits, and many folks may find the process a little challenging.

I honestly feel that I would find using the Tacoma as a TV for the 26BH limiting my towing experince..., but that is just me.

I do appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to crunch all the numbers and I feel that you understand the weight limits that the Tacoma brings to the table..... and at the end of the day that's what is important.

Bob

[amabee]

I have one question, have you at some point calculated in the weight of the WDH? Mine weighs close to 100lbs, you are so close on all these numbers, if that has not been added to the GVWR of your TV it would easily push you over the limit.