Trailer hitch weight questions...

[StarGazer]

Hi there,

First question. Is "hitch weight" synonomous with "tongue weight"?

Second question. On the Jayco website, for any given model they list a hitch weight. Some models specify a "dry hitch weight" like the Jay Flight 28BHS. Other models such as the Eagle Super Light 284BHS simply show a "hitch weight". Should I assume this is also a dry hitch weight even though it does not say so?

Next, isn't the tongue weight of a trailer dependent upon it's loaded weight? Meaning the tongue weight is not a constant?

Thanks for the clarification,
Chris

[TexasA&M]

Yes, yes, and yes.

Hitch weight and tongue weight are the same. Not sure why some of the specs listed on the Jayco website are worded differently, but I've noticed a couple of other inconsistencies, so you are safe to assume that anything Jayco lists, is the dry weight.

Tongue weight is absolutely dependent on loaded weight. That said, Jayco has no way of knowing what all you're going to load up in your trailer, so they have to list something. Also, if the trailer isn't naturally balanced from the factory, it would be very difficult to balance afterward by loading, so it's always good to know what the starting point is.

That said, you should load the camper up with whatever you would normally have in it, and then take the whole rig to the scale and see what it says. You can make adjustments from there.

[StarGazer]

Thanks Tex. Yeah, the wording is a bit confusing.

Ok, just so I understand this correctly. I'm looking at the Jayco Eagle Super Light 284BHS which I'm picking up tomorrow. It shows Unloaded Weight of 6410. GVW of 8100. Hitch Weight 805.

I've been reading that ideally you want a hitch weight of between 10%-15% of the currently loaded trailer weight. So technically speaking the ACTUAL hitch weight of this trailer could be as little as 641 lbs or it could be as much as 1,215 lbs, or anywhere in between. Actual weight will be dependent on 1) how much the trailer weighs with what I've put in it and 2) how that weight is currently distributed from front to back in the trailer.

Do I have this right? That's certainly a large swing in tongue weight. I understand Jayco needs to list something on it's page. It appears that the tongue weight they show for any given model on their site is between 12.5%-13% of Unloaded weight or ~10% of Loaded weight.

So again, the trailer I'm looking at, the Eagle Super Light 28BHS fits within my towing capacity with about 1k lbs. to spare at fully loaded weight. However, the tongue weight can either be just fine or it could be too much for what my tow vehicle shows as max tongue capacity, depnding on how the weight is distributed.

I'm guessing I should purchase a tongue scale so I can keep this number in check.

Regards,
Chris

[StarGazer]

Originally Posted by StarGazer

Thanks Tex. Yeah, the wording is a bit confusing.

Ok, just so I understand this correctly. I'm looking at the Jayco Eagle Super Light 284BHS which I'm picking up tomorrow. It shows Unloaded Weight of 6410. GVW of 8100. Hitch Weight 805.

I've been reading that ideally you want a hitch weight of between 10%-15% of the currently loaded trailer weight. So technically speaking the ACTUAL hitch weight of this trailer could be as little as 641 lbs or it could be as much as 1,215 lbs, or anywhere in between. Actual weight will be dependent on 1) how much the trailer weighs with what I've put in it and 2) how that weight is currently distributed from front to back in the trailer.

Do I have this right? That's certainly a large swing in tongue weight. I understand Jayco needs to list something on it's page. It appears that the tongue weight they show for any given model on their site is between 12.5%-13% of Unloaded weight or ~10% of Loaded weight.

So again, the trailer I'm looking at, the Eagle Super Light 28BHS fits within my towing capacity with about 1k lbs. to spare at fully loaded weight. However, the tongue weight can either be just fine or it could be too much for what my tow vehicle shows as max tongue capacity, depnding on how the weight is distributed.

I'm guessing I should purchase a tongue scale so I can keep this number in check.

Regards,
Chris

*Edit* And the addition of a weight distribution hitch also adds in another variable by removing some of the tongue weight and distributing it to the front axle of the tow vehicle and the axle of the trailer.

There is just no way of knowing with any certainty one's current tongue weight without having the scale. Especially since this number is not a static number at all. It can change quite easily and quite drastically as well.

[TexasA&M]

All correct statements above. Assuming your tow vehicle can handle it, I think it's always best to have a heavier tongue than a lighter one (within the 10-15% spec).

When you get your trailer, look for the yellow tag. There should be two of them, and they will show the actual weight of YOUR trailer as it rolled off the line. I believe tongue weight is listed there as well, but can't remember and don't have my trailer here to check. That will be your starting point. You are correct that there really is no way to tell without a scale of some sort (either at home or at a truck stop).

As far as a WD hitch is concerned, you still want the tongue weight to be between 10% and 15%. With a trailer your size, you will definitely want a WD setup with sway control. If you don't already have that, start researching now, as there are a lot of options. This will allow you to pull the trailer safely and much more comfortably.

[Denise]

Welcome to the Jayco Owners Forum Chris! Our tongue weight empty with just tanks and one battery was 900 something lbs. Once we loaded the front storage area (light weight items), and extra battery, full tanks, and clothes in the front bedroom cabinets, the tongue weight jumped to around 1,050. We have weighed the tongue several times as we experimented with what we could put into the storage compartments. Currently, with the same packing for each trip, we are usually between 1,050 and 1,075. Pretty heavy for our half ton, but the WDH we currently have works well at keeping the front end of the tv down. Hope this helps some

[Crabman]

Tex, the tongue weight is not on the yellow sticker, not on 2010`s anyway. It is only in the brochure on the website and as said it is empty tongue weight. That`s before batteries, propane , WD hitch, and anything you put in the TT that contributes to tongue weight. The WD system distributes weight but does not reduce tongue weight. I realize that sounds a bit strange. So when you weigh your tongue with your TT loaded, that`s what you go by.

[Rustic Eagle]

StarGazer,

Great information so far, thought I would add a little more for you to noodle over. The 284BHS has an over-all length of a little over 31 feet, which is considered a long TT. Your comment about the 10% - 15% being a wide spread is correct, but I would recommend that 13% - 15% would be more desirable with the longer TT's.

Since we don't tow empty TT's, one way is to use the TT's GVWR (8,100) as a worst case loaded TT weight condition. That said, 13% - 15% (of 8,100) would give you a 1,053lb to 1,215lb loaded tongue weight range. The 284BHS only has a 1,650 CCC...., all said & done adding 1,000lbs (tanks empty) over the TT's UVW of 6,410lbs will be "easy" IMO (7,410lbs loaded TT: 963lb - 1,111lb loaded tongue)....., so pushing toward an 8,000lb loaded TT weight is realistic depending on your loading habits.

I agree with TexasA&M, a properly sized WD with Sway Control is highly recommended. I would look into either a Reese Strait-Line WD hitch or Equal-i-zer WD hitch brand products because they both have integrated sway control. Also, based on the potential loaded tongue weight range for the 284BHS, IMO you should be looking at a 1,200lb rated WD hitch.

As mentioned, confirm that your TV and TV's receiver is up to the task.

Just food for thought.

Bob

[Trout34]

This is an informative thread. It seems I'm always reading about making sure there is enough weight on the tongue. As if not having enough is the more common problem. I understand the 10% - 15% goal with 13% the sweet spot. I have an X17C and my concern is with having too high a percentage. The Jayco website says the X17C has a tongue weight of 475 lbs. Now the GVW for the trailer is 3500 lbs. and my yellow sticker reads 3024 lbs. when it shipped. Assuming the 475 includes a full propane tank and the trailer has gear bringing it to 3500, you are already at 13.5%. I added a WDH with a shipping weight of 80 lbs. I used all the components but 80 seems a little high. Still, I'd bet there is at least 50 lbs between the hitch, shank, bars and ball. That puts me at 525 lbs and at 15%. I also have the spare tire which I believe was an option and thus likely not included in the 475 lbs listed by Jayco. I also have a battery on the tongue which I'm not sure is included in the 475 lb base. Finally, though we've only stuck some light weight lawn chairs in the storage area it is at the front of the trailer as well. I assume Jayco engineers considered these things in the design and I don't read about problems from the numerous 17C owners. It seems probable that I am above the 15% (at least 17%). What are the ramifications if so? I do believe I am below the 600 lb. max tongue weight on the Pathfinder.

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by Trout34

This is an informative thread. It seems I'm always reading about making sure there is enough weight on the tongue. As if not having enough is the more common problem. I understand the 10% - 15% goal with 13% the sweet spot. I have an X17C and my concern is with having too high a percentage. The Jayco website says the X17C has a tongue weight of 475 lbs. Now the GVW for the trailer is 3500 lbs. and my yellow sticker reads 3024 lbs. when it shipped. Assuming the 475 includes a full propane tank and the trailer has gear bringing it to 3500, you are already at 13.5%. I added a WDH with a shipping weight of 80 lbs. I used all the components but 80 seems a little high. Still, I'd bet there is at least 50 lbs between the hitch, shank, bars and ball. That puts me at 525 lbs and at 15%. I also have the spare tire which I believe was an option and thus likely not included in the 475 lbs listed by Jayco. I also have a battery on the tongue which I'm not sure is included in the 475 lb base. Finally, though we've only stuck some light weight lawn chairs in the storage area it is at the front of the trailer as well. I assume Jayco engineers considered these things in the design and I don't read about problems from the numerous 17C owners. It seems probable that I am above the 15% (at least 17%). What are the ramifications if so? I do believe I am below the 600 lb. max tongue weight on the Pathfinder.

If you weigh your tongue, loaded to go, and find you are well over 15% you can put some items over or in back of the axles to get to the desired tongue weight. Just don`t wanna be "tongue light" though. As said 13% is ideal.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Trout34

snip...... I added a WDH with a shipping weight of 80 lbs. I used all the components but 80 seems a little high. Still, I'd bet there is at least 50 lbs between the hitch, shank, bars and ball. That puts me at 525 lbs and at 15%. ....snip

Trout34,

Keep in mind that most of the component weight of a typical WDH is placed on the TV's receiver and doesn't contribute to the TT's actual loaded tongue weight, however the WD components attached to the TT's A-frame would (when unhitched from the TV).

Going to heavy (over the 15%) may exceed the rating of your WD spring bars, TV weight limits, or the TV's receiver WD limits.

Bob

[clutch]

You also neeed to be aware that the posted hitch or tongue weight is with the trailer sitting level. If your truck saggs and the front of the trailer sits lower then the weight is higher.

[Trout34]

First thanks to all those more experienced with their input, it is helpful and appreciated. I made adjustments to the Reese today and it didn't quite go as I'd hoped. I'm on the bottom hole available on the shank. Using the full 15 degree tilt I was able to get the trailer level. Unfortunately that was with the WD not connected and the truck rear sagging. With the adjustment the WD bars did not want to sit on the cams. I opted not to adjust them because I did not think I'd have the necessary clearance when done and even with the jack raised as high as it would go I could not snap them up. I did leave pipe to help with that at home.

I wanted to get the setup weighed so I adjusted the tilt and chains to a point where the truck was level. I'd guess the trailer coupler would still need to drop 2 -3 inches for the trailer to be level. The trunnions were forward of where they needed to be by about 1/2 inch. The weights came in as follows:

W/O Trailer With Trailer
Steer axle 2580 33.75 2780 33.25
Driver axle 2660 33.75 2820 33
Trailer axle 2760

The second number is the height of the wheel wells. Its apparent I'm going to have to have the Pathfinder sag to the backend some. The gross axle max weight on the front is 2775. So I was over a hair and I assume when I add my wife's 125 lbs to the front seat that will make it worse. The rear axle max is 3500 so I have some room there. I'm not sure how to proceed. Tentatively it looks like I'll have to get a shank that will allow me to lower the tongue. Doing so will surely move some more weight to the TV and I'll have to get get that to the rear axle. I'm not too worried about that but I would like to know if there is an adjustment that can move some to the trailer axle where the max is also 3500.

[Crabman]

Hey Trout, sounds like yer having all kinds of fun. If you cannot set the tension with the jack all the way up even with the pipe, (should be able to do it by hand with the jack up) then clearly things are way off. Too much tilt on the hitch head as you said is one issue. I believe the angle on the hitch head is more intended for WD hitch adjustment rather then trailer leveling. From what I gather with the shank all the way down your trailer is still tongue high? Some shanks can be taken apart and turned upside down so you can use lower holes, As the pic of mine shows, if I needed to go really low I could remove the bolts and flip the shank upside down. I had to do this in reverse, my hitch was set too low so I had to flip it to the high side to level my TT. If this is not an option, you may need a shank with lower holes in it. Perhaps some others will chime in that have high trucks and had to lower their shank with a drop hitch or something.

[Rustic Eagle]

Trout34,

Ok, looks like you have a lot going on. One thing for sure not all TV/TT combinations are created equal and some take a little more work to get the Reese HP Dual Cam dialed in. Once dialed in the Dual Cam is a great hitch.
A little more information may be helpful for us;

1) Can you post any side view pics of your hitch with your TV/TT?

2) Which model/version of Reese "HP" Dual Cam do you have....., the one with the "flat" (gold in color) chain hanger brackets or the one with the "bent" (silver in color, latest version) chain hanger bracket?

3) Are there any WD weight rating restrictions noted on the X17C A-frame?

4) Do you have the round bar or trunnion bar style spring bars?

5) What is the weight rating of the spring bars with your Reese hitch?

6) What are the weight ratings of your Pathfinder's receiver?

Just a couple of comments based on the information you supplied thus far;

As you mentioned to much weight has been transferred to the TV's front axle, ideally you want to bring the front axle weight back to it's "unhitched" weight to maintain it's normal steering characteristics when you have your WD spring bars engaged (most TV manufactures require this). In most cases the rear axle (suspension) will incur additional drop with the spring bars engaged, so don't focus to much on getting the TV level via the WD adjustments (days of equal TV axle squat are almost gone).

You may want to back off on the ball mount tilt to reduce the amount of weight being transferred to the TV front axle as a start. I also agree with 'Crabman' you may have to flip your your shank to get the TT level (or possibly a new shank), but address the weight transfer matter first.

I've attached a photo of my Reese HP Dual Cam, but my set-up will look a lot different than yours because we have different TV suspensions/heights, and my Jayco Eagle TT frame is much different than your Jay Feather Sport HTT frame. I have the earlier version of the "HP" Dual Cam with the "flat" chain hanger brackets. The two "HP" versions of the Reese Dual Cam are bolted directly to the A-frame, the very first Reese "Dual Cam" product was attached via large U-bolts around the A-frame
.
Hope you can provide a little more info.......thanks.

Bob

[Crabman]

Rustic Eagle said "In most cases the rear axle (suspension) will incur additional drop with the spring bars engaged, so don't focus to much on getting the TV level via the WD adjustments (days of equal TV axle squat are almost gone)."


Yeah I think its accepted now that an inch or two of rear squat is normal. I know mine drops about 1.5" with the bars under tension, of course Its a soft springed 1500.

[bounder]

Originally Posted by clutch

You also neeed to be aware that the posted hitch or tongue weight is with the trailer sitting level. If your truck saggs and the front of the trailer sits lower then the weight is higher.

Clutch what is the tongue weight capacity on your Husky wd hitch?
Thanks Ernie

[usmc616]

Trout, I also had some troubles setting up my Reese dual cam properly. I finally had a mobile rv service come to my house and get it right, the best $200.00 spent. He spent about 4 hours measureing and test driving and readjusting. A week later we hit the road for 25 days traveling to Disney from NY and back. No sway at all, except getting pushed by semis some.

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by usmc616

Trout, I also had some troubles setting up my Reese dual cam properly. I finally had a mobile rv service come to my house and get it right, the best $200.00 spent. He spent about 4 hours measureing and test driving and readjusting. A week later we hit the road for 25 days traveling to Disney from NY and back. No sway at all, except getting pushed by semis some.

Yeah, Joe that could be just what Trout needs, if he can find the right guy for the job like you did. Not everyone knows how to adjust the Reese dual cams as I discovered when RVdirect hooked mine up. It wasn`t even close to being right. The hitch was mine, I brought it with me, they just put it on for me.

[usmc616]

Originally Posted by Crabman

Yeah, Joe that could be just what Trout needs, if he can find the right guy for the job like you did. Not everyone knows how to adjust the Reese dual cams as I discovered when RVdirect hooked mine up. It wasn`t even close to being right. The hitch was mine, I brought it with me, they just put it on for me.

I was also leary about having RVDirect install my Reese dual cam at their Albany facility, but luckily for me the mobile RV guy came with me to pick it up and he drove it back to his shop to do the install. I wonder where Trout lives?