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Old 03-26-2017, 04:57 PM   #1
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Trailer/TV combination

I originally posted this question on the General Chat thread because I'm an idiot and didn't check where I was before posting. Got a couple replies and figured I may as well re-post on this thread - you know, the correct thread.

I'm completely new to towing a travel trailer and so, like everything else in my life, I've spent the past six months reading and researching, trying not to make a big mistake. I think my numbers are OK, but being the worrying kind I wanted to get opinions from people who know far more than I do.

My TV is a 2016 f150 XLT supercab, 5.0, 141" WB, 3.55 gears. It's GVWR is 7050, GCVWR is 14,400, and payload is 2067 (from the door sticker). I figure with the family and maybe an extra 80 lbs. of stuff we should weigh 600 lbs.

The trailer is a Jay Feather 23BHM, ordered by my dealer about a week ago and expected to be in by June. The 23BHM had an unloaded weight of 4830 in 2017, and although this is a 2018 model I have to think the weight will stay pretty much the same. The GVWR is 6250, but just as I don't want to push weights with my truck I also don't want to push the trailer's weight so we'll stay under that figure. I ordered it with several options and have a Jayco option weight sheet that shows the total additional weight of 70 lbs. There's just three of us and our dog and we won't be out much longer than a few days at a time so we won't take along all our possessions.

I'm sorry to be obtuse about this - I have no experience. And I'm sorry for being so worrisome, but the dealer is about 4 hours away through western Pennsylvania and my first pull will be from there to home (northeastern Pennsylvania) and I'll tell you the truth, that pull has me a little nervous.

Can I get an opinion of the set-up and perhaps a few tips for staying alive this Summer?

Thank you. I'll hang up and listen.

Forgot three pieces of the puzzle: truck has factory tow (regular, not max) with Ford brake controller, hitch rating is 1100/11,000 with WDH (I crawled under), dealer-installed Reese WDH (not sure of the model number, but it's a 1000/10,000 lb.).
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:03 AM   #2
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We read a lot of posts here of people with F-150s who want to push the envelope by pulling heavy trailers. Happily, you are not one of them if I read you correctly. You should be just fine. Take your time on the way home from the dealer with your new rig, and continue to study and read posts about F-150 capabilities. One of the first things that I experienced that was a concern was pulling our brand new trailer on the interstate from the dealer and feeling the rear end pull to the left when a truck passed me on the left. It seems that is normal and has to do with things I probably learned in high school fifty or so years ago and no longer recall. You're set up, meaning weight distribution hitch properly pushing weight down on your front axle, will minimize this affect. At least that is my understanding and how it was for me. If the front end seems a little squirrely, it is likely you need to adjust your hitch. Dealer installed hitches are about as reliable, in my experience, as the salesman's assurances that your tow vehicle can pull anything on his lot!
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Old 03-27-2017, 08:51 AM   #3
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I agree with cekkk!

Your combo is excellent!

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Old 03-27-2017, 08:59 AM   #4
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As I mentioned in the other thread you should be fine. That is the short answer but this will be long to explain how I came up on the numbers.

There are a lot of weights and numbers to look at. The hard part is a lot of them can probably be ignored. It is best to start at the camper so I will look at that first.

For instance you mentioned the unloaded weight on the camper. This really doesn't mean anything. Since you can't look at the weight of the camper as it isn't built yet it is kind of a starting point but keep in mind this weight is a base model with no propane tanks, probably not a battery and no options and really doesn't reflect at all what your camper will weigh coming off the factory floor. If you look at Jayco campers they put a yellow sticker on the outside (driver side) as well as another inside the door because the outside one will fade in time. Here is what mine looks like on my 25BH. It doesn't help you much other than so you can see what they say.



This sticker shows the real weight of the empty camper as optioned out with full propane tanks. It also tells you what a full load of water in the FW tank weighs and how much cargo weight you can add to the camper before you are pushing the campers GVWR or max weight. As I mentioned until the camper is built you really don't know what this is. You might be able to find another camper (2017) with the same options and get and idea but it won't be the same. This is why when calculating tongue weight and loads I usually just go with GVWR for the camper. This is the weight that you don't want to exceed anyhow as far as a loaded camper so consider it a worst case weight and you will probably be lighter than this. We can look up the GVWR of a camper because they post this info on the website. I agree that the weights will likely remain about the same unless there is a major redesign. So your unloaded weight of 4830, who cares. Just ignore that for planning as it really doesn't matter. It is just more data that isn't needed.

The GVWR is 6250. This is a good number to use for figuring out the first bit of info. An estimate on tongue weight because this counts against the cargo capacity on the truck. As we have said you want a bare min of 10% don't go that low because if you break camp and now your fresh water tank is empty and your black and grey tanks are full now you might be at 8% TW and have stability issues until you can dump. This is why we normally say shoot for 13-15%. It gives more buffer room because of weight transfer. So using that GVWR of the camper we get the following. 6250 * 0.13= 812.5 to 6250 * 0.15 = 937.5. So expect a worst case tongue weight of 812.5 to 937.5 lbs. It will probably be lighter than that but this is based on a camper loaded to max capacity again worst case for planning.

Now lets look at the truck.

You stated it has GVWR is 7050, GCVWR is 14,400 and cargo of 2067. The way they come up with the cargo limit is kind of the same way they do it in a camper. Every manufacturer is a little different so look in the manual to see how it is done. Some use full tank of fuel and 1 driver that weighs 150lbs. Some use half tank. Either way this number is what the truck weighed as it rolled off the factory so before any toppers, bed liners or other aftermarket parts. They add in the 150lbs for a driver and the fuel weight and see how much is left until you hit GVWR is the cargo capacity.

So we want to focus on that 2067 number as that is the important one and start working backwards. Again using worst case, take the heaviest tongue weight from cargo weight. 2067 - 937.5 = 1129.5. From that 1129.5 we still need to account for the WD hitch. Lets call it 80lbs as it will be around that between the hitch and all other parts that get installed on the trailer. 1129.5 - 80 = 1049.5. Next you need to account for passengers and cargo in the truck which you estimated at 600lbs. 1049.5 - 600 = 449.5.

By my estimates you have about 450lbs for other accessories on your truck which may not have been accounted for. Do you have a topper, bedliner or other even dealer installed option that wasn't on the truck when it left the factory?

As for your other numbers you mentioned.

GCVWR. This is the combined weight of the truck and trailer. To check this use those worst case numbers. The trucks GVWR 7050 add the campers GVWR 6250 and you get the combined worst case weight of 13,300. You stated the GCVWR was 14,400 so you are good with room to spare. Again that was worst case on the camper side.

Hitch rating 1100/11,000. That means your hitch weight can't exceed 1,100lbs. We already said your worst case hitch weight is 937.5 so well under the 1,100lbs max. The 11,000 number is the max GVWR of the camper. Well that is only 6250 so perfectly fine.

By my math you are in the green on every category with room to spare. It is confusing because there are so many numbers and factors to look at. Some are there for marketing and in our application you can simply ignore. The one I like is the max towing weight. Because of cargo limits and hitch weight needing to be at least 10% normally means you can never come close to the max towing capability every manufacturer likes to advertise.

If any of this doesn't make sense. Ask and we can explain it another way.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:01 AM   #5
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As posted previously, from the TV payload and the TT, it appears you should be OK.

Your WD hitch setup includes an anti-sway friction device, too, doesn't it? It should.

When you get the rig home (from that first white-knuckle drive ), you should check that the trailer is level or slightly nose down and check the WD hitch setup yourself for weight transfer to the front axle. Not all dealers get the setup correct.

Before you head out, inflate the TV and TT tires to the maximum shown on the side wall (front tires ~5psi below max often gives better handling). This stiffens tire sidewalls for lower tire temps and resists sway better.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerIsMe View Post
I originally posted this question on the General Chat thread because I'm an idiot and didn't check where I was before posting. Got a couple replies and figured I may as well re-post on this thread - you know, the correct thread.

I'm completely new to towing a travel trailer and so, like everything else in my life, I've spent the past six months reading and researching, trying not to make a big mistake. I think my numbers are OK, but being the worrying kind I wanted to get opinions from people who know far more than I do.

My TV is a 2016 f150 XLT supercab, 5.0, 141" WB, 3.55 gears. It's GVWR is 7050, GCVWR is 14,400, and payload is 2067 (from the door sticker). I figure with the family and maybe an extra 80 lbs. of stuff we should weigh 600 lbs.

The trailer is a Jay Feather 23BHM, ordered by my dealer about a week ago and expected to be in by June. The 23BHM had an unloaded weight of 4830 in 2017, and although this is a 2018 model I have to think the weight will stay pretty much the same. The GVWR is 6250, but just as I don't want to push weights with my truck I also don't want to push the trailer's weight so we'll stay under that figure. I ordered it with several options and have a Jayco option weight sheet that shows the total additional weight of 70 lbs. There's just three of us and our dog and we won't be out much longer than a few days at a time so we won't take along all our possessions.

I'm sorry to be obtuse about this - I have no experience. And I'm sorry for being so worrisome, but the dealer is about 4 hours away through western Pennsylvania and my first pull will be from there to home (northeastern Pennsylvania) and I'll tell you the truth, that pull has me a little nervous.

Can I get an opinion of the set-up and perhaps a few tips for staying alive this Summer?

Thank you. I'll hang up and listen.

Forgot three pieces of the puzzle: truck has factory tow (regular, not max) with Ford brake controller, hitch rating is 1100/11,000 with WDH (I crawled under), dealer-installed Reese WDH (not sure of the model number, but it's a 1000/10,000 lb.).
Except that I have the 3.5 EB engine, we have about the same F-150, and your TT dry is only about 600 pounds heavier than our X213. You should have no problems towing that. Just take it easy. I towed mine 150 miles home from the dealer in a strong crosswind, no WDH, and no problems at all. That was my first time towing anything more than a popup in more than 40 years (and we towed the popup with a Honda Ridgeline, not nearly as capable as the F-150).

Towing a TT, even a smallish one like the one you are getting, is going to be a different sort of driving than you are used to, but that is to be expected. You will definitely know that the trailer is back there, despite what some say about not being able to feel it. Even if you had an F-350 you would know that you were towing something. With the WDH properly set up, and keeping your speed to 65 or less you should be fine.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:23 AM   #7
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Tow mirrors for your truck would help as well.
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Old 03-27-2017, 10:23 AM   #8
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Nothing to add other than I'm towing a heavier camper with a truck that has less payload than yours, and I do so up and down the continental divide on almost every trip. My anecdotal evidence is that your trailer and tow vehicle combo are pretty much perfect.

On the other hand, I'm a lot closer to my limits so I have to watch my weights a lot more than you will need to, and it's coming close to forcing my hand on an upgraded truck. You won't be in that situation with your setup. I'm trying to squeeze one more season out of my truck since it will be paid off this year and losing that truck payment for a while will allow me to get the truck of my dreams a lot sooner.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:07 PM   #9
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by sennister View Post
By my math you are in the green on every category with room to spare. It is confusing because there are so many numbers and factors to look at. Some are there for marketing and in our application you can simply ignore. The one I like is the max towing weight. Because of cargo limits and hitch weight needing to be at least 10% normally means you can never come close to the max towing capability every manufacturer likes to advertise.

If any of this doesn't make sense. Ask and we can explain it another way.
Thanks my friend. It is confusing which is why I'm spending so much time on this and asking so many newbie questions. Glad I have a place to ask (thanks to Al Gore).

First piece of advice I usually see when somebody has weight questions is to get thee to a scale, which is great advice if you have your trailer and family all loaded up and you're in some sort of close proximity to a scale but that's just not possible for everyone. In my case we looked at some trailers and figured out a good floor plan, then looked at some more trailers and found the one we liked. Of course the interior color was not what my wife wanted so we ordered one. Then we bought the f150 to suit the trailer, not the other way around, and I just have to hope we made a good decision.

Anyways, thanks for your insight. Also, I added nothing to the truck - I had read about the importance of payload and looked at a few door stickers before I found the right Ford. By the way, have you had a chance to spend any time in your new 25BH?
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:20 PM   #10
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Tow mirrors for your truck would help as well.
It has those manual pull-out mirrors. Power option adds weight!
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:24 PM   #11
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Your WD hitch setup includes an anti-sway friction device, too, doesn't it? It should.

When you get the rig home (from that first white-knuckle drive ), you should check that the trailer is level or slightly nose down and check the WD hitch setup yourself for weight transfer to the front axle. Not all dealers get the setup correct.

Before you head out, inflate the TV and TT tires to the maximum shown on the side wall (front tires ~5psi below max often gives better handling). This stiffens tire sidewalls for lower tire temps and resists sway better.


I'll tell you what Buddy - I'll be doubling up on my blood pressure meds that day. And anti-sway is on my list of things to tell the dealer. Have compressor, will inflate. I may have to look at the level/nose down profile in the dealer's lot - no flat spots where I live.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:31 PM   #12
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I agree with cekkk!

Your combo is excellent!

Murff

That's not 5.0 bias typing is it? How do you like that Murphy bed my Friend? Did you have to add a topper or anything?
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:04 PM   #13
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Another F150...

Been reading the great TV/TT towing analysis & recommendations by Murff, Sennister, Bansai, & others for several weeks now. Bought our 2010 Jay Flight 22FB a month ago, & been preparing to start camping in April. My 2011 F150 SCrew, 5.0, 3.73, 157 wb is another example of vehicle mfg's playing the 'my truck can tow more than yours' game. My towing capacity is 9100#. But with my truck's GVWR of 7100# & cargo capacity of 1591#, I'd use nearly all my capacity w/ a 9k trailer at 15% tongue weight.

Fortunately my 22FB dry weight is 4428# (6000# gross), so I'm not in that situation. My truck weight with passengers, bed topper, WDH, & full fuel is 6280#. That leaves only 820# for tongue load & additional TV cargo. So guess I'll be taking your good advice & load up for camping, but head to the scale to see how she works out.

Fortunately we're long time campers & sailboaters who practice traveling very light. We spend 2 summer months out on a large sailboat & learned after ten years what we really needed vs what we could buy as we went along.

I also read about all the fancy, expensive WDH's & worry that my little old Husky 800# tongue / 10,000# tow round bar w/ single friction sway bar will be adequate.

Appreciate any thoughts... though likely I've already read them several time before. Thanks.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:34 PM   #14
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Thanks my friend. It is confusing which is why I'm spending so much time on this and asking so many newbie questions. Glad I have a place to ask (thanks to Al Gore).

First piece of advice I usually see when somebody has weight questions is to get thee to a scale, which is great advice if you have your trailer and family all loaded up and you're in some sort of close proximity to a scale but that's just not possible for everyone. In my case we looked at some trailers and figured out a good floor plan, then looked at some more trailers and found the one we liked. Of course the interior color was not what my wife wanted so we ordered one. Then we bought the f150 to suit the trailer, not the other way around, and I just have to hope we made a good decision.

Anyways, thanks for your insight. Also, I added nothing to the truck - I had read about the importance of payload and looked at a few door stickers before I found the right Ford. By the way, have you had a chance to spend any time in your new 25BH?
Not a problem. It is good to be sure and understand the weights. As I said it is confusing because of all of the marketing spin and how the numbers apply to us. It doesn't help that most salespeople don't know how to do this either.

This weekend would have been the first chance but we spent it loading out the camper. Plus we added this memory foam pad to the front bed and it smells pretty bad. We could air out the camper much because it was raining on and off. Today was better so it aired out most of the day so we could probably driveway camp this weekend. None of the campgrounds around us are open yet.

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Old 03-29-2017, 10:24 AM   #15
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As far as I'm concerned, a dealer should never send someone out the door without the WD hitch being set up properly. Tell them you are new to this game and demand answers. a last word of advice, remember to swing wide, especially when making right hand turns.
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:15 AM   #16
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As far as I'm concerned, a dealer should never send someone out the door without the WD hitch being set up properly. Tell them you are new to this game and demand answers. a last word of advice, remember to swing wide, especially when making right hand turns.
Very true, but since the variable of not knowing exactly how the tt will be loaded and weigh when a dealer sets up the wdh, they try to get it "close". Some do a good job, others aren't so lucky, and then there are a few who are not even close which is sad.
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