Water pump pick up issues

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 06:26 AM

The water pump will leave approx. 16 gals in the tank and will not pick up prime at that level. Is the pick up line accessible from inside the storage compartment ?

Iraqvet05 · 08-05-2015, 06:51 AM

Welcome to the forum! What year and model do you have?

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 06:58 AM

2008 313rks

ctbailey · 08-05-2015, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Tremont

The water pump will leave approx. 16 gals in the tank and will not pick up prime at that level. Is the pick up line accessible from inside the storage compartment ?

Hi Dave... this post got me wondering. I put ONLY 20 gallons into my FW tank, since my TT is on a "weight diet."

Anyhow, are you dumping the FW tank into 5 gal pails to determine the 16 gallon volume? 16 gallons seems like a rather precise measurement.

The FW on my unit is actually a pair of tanks, but I've never really run out of water.

Camper_bob · 08-05-2015, 08:05 AM

I have the same problem (different unit; '14 28BHBE). There seems to be A LOT of water left in the tank after the pump stops picking it up. I haven't measured it yet, but it is a lot more than I think it should be.

I guess I'll make it a point to get under there and take a closer look for sure this week while I have the trailer home. I'm thinking I might get to where I'll call up Jayco and get a plumbing diagram so I can see exactly what is going on down there. Maybe a project for this winter...

I'm interested to hear what others have to say about this issue. I'm not so much concerned about the weight any more (bigger truck now, less weight worries), but if/when I need that water I'm afraid I won't be able to get to it.

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 08:16 AM

We dry camp a lot so using every bit of water is important, and yes after the pump lost water pickup I emptied the tank into a 5 gal pail. Does anyone know how the pickup is designed in the tank ?

RoyBraddy · 08-05-2015, 08:31 AM

I would check the simple things first to be sure your pump is getting good flow.

This is a typical water flow chart for trailers when just using the water pump and the associated fresh water tank....

I would make sure the VALVES are all fully turned in the right direction etc... Might be allowing the water pump to suck some outside air if not...

Also the ONE WAY VALVES might have some trash in them slowing down the flow...

Has your problem always been there - perhaps the pump is not big enough to the job you are expecting?

Roy Ken

ctbailey · 08-05-2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Tremont

We dry camp a lot so using every bit of water is important, and yes after the pump lost water pickup I emptied the tank into a 5 gal pail. Does anyone know how the pickup is designed in the tank ?

Sorry Dave, I wish I knew your tank's setup. With these enclosed bellys the simple things get difficult, eh?

I know on my old '04 Surveyor by Forest River the FW tank did in fact have a low point on the rear at the middle of the tank. The pickup hose was hooked to the low point. There aren't many Tank manufacturers, and if I recall, the pickups on most are molded into the tank.

For your sake and mine... I hope Jayco isn't using some sort of bulkhead fitting drilled into the side of the FW tank... that sounds like a leak just waiting to happen.

One more possibility - they use some sort of bung on the TOP of the FW tank, and stick the tube down into the tank. If the tube starts to recoil due to it's natural curvature, then the pickup could potentially lift off the bottom of the tank. But - that's pure speculation.

theres' only one way for you to know the truth. Cut open the belly enclosure, get some light in there, and take a look. Even if a fellow forum poster happens to have your exact model and year... these campers are basically custom built by humans, based on the model guidelines. They simply are not perfectly identical like automobiles being built by robots.

Good luck Dave, and post some pics when you get the nerve to create a looky-loo "door" into the enclosed belly. Be sure to fashion up some way to seal that "door" back up

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 08:50 AM

The system works fine when the water level is higher. This model has a manifold system with multiple valves for different scenarios i.e. normal, fill, city hook-up, sanitize. All positions work correctly. I was wondering if the pickup tube was flexible and weighted or rigid. We just purchased this unit and the previous owner never put water in the tank.

Camper_bob · 08-05-2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctbailey

Snip ...

One more possibility - they use some sort of bung on the TOP of the FW tank, and stick the tube down into the tank. If the tube starts to recoil due to it's natural curvature, then the pickup could potentially lift off the bottom of the tank. But - that's pure speculation.

This is what I originally thought may be the problem, but others have stated that the pickup to the pump doesn't drop into the top of the tank, it's supposedly plumbed to a fitting on the outside of the bottom of the tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Tremont

The system works fine when the water level is higher. This model has a manifold system with multiple valves for different scenarios i.e. normal, fill, city hook-up, sanitize. All positions work correctly. I was wondering if the pickup tube was flexible and weighted or rigid. We just purchased this unit and the previous owner never put water in the tank.

Mine too (except for the manifold system). ALL other systems/pressures/operations work as expected when there's at least 1/3 (according to the idiot light) water in the tank.

Someone else mentioned that it could be that the pump only picks up from one tank (I have two tanks tied together) and that the leftover water could be in the other tank. The hose that ties the tanks together is not at the absolute bottom of the tank, so there could be a bit of water there that is inaccessible simply because it cannot flow to the other tank ...

This is making me want to leave work and go home and look at my trailer right now. Alas, it will have to wait until tonight; I'll try to figure it out and get pics if I can ...

**norty1** · 08-05-2015, 09:34 AM

On this last trip, we stopped in a rest area that required us to park on a slight down grade and I noticed that my pump would not pick up at that down angle. It was working fine at the last stop and when we arrived at our destination, I checked it and it worked fine, so on mine the pickup is affected by the angle of the rig. I may have to start filling it to 1/3 full in the future.

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 09:49 AM

I'm pretty sure that I have only 1 tank because I have only 1 drain valve. do you think that the drain valve and the pickup are on the same fitting coming out of the tank ???

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 09:53 AM

I believe angle can effect the pickup but my unit was set up level and left 16 gals so out of the 46 gal available that hurts

dphoward62 · 08-05-2015, 10:17 AM

I appear to have the same issue with my 2015 264 BHW. When we get ready to pack up I put about 5 gallons in the fresh water tank to flush the toilet and rinse the black water tank after the initial dumping. But with that amount in the fresh water tank I get more air than water from both the toilet and the faucets.

Recently I took it to the dealer for service and reported this and a few other minor issues. When I went to pick it up they reported that the pump is working normally. But then I found out that they completely filled the fresh water tank.

We're camping this weekend and I'll do a full diagnostic and try to determine at what point the pump stops drawing water correctly. If, as I suspect, it leaves a significant amount of water in the tank, I'll take it back to the dealer.

dewey02 · 08-05-2015, 10:28 AM

If you get underneath and take a look at the tanks (you might have to remove the coroplast if you have a belly cover), you may see that on many Jayco models, the FW intake for the pump is on the side of the tank, and not on the bottom. You may also see that the tanks tend to bulge downward between where the metal bars hold them in. And if you have 2 tanks, the equalizers between the tanks also come off the side of the tanks.

What all this means is that your pump is working just fine. The problem is that it cannot get to those 16+ gallons of water still left in your tank. And I'll be willing to bet it is more than 16 gallons, because if you are measuring what's left by opening your FW drain valves, you are not getting the water that is contained in the bulging portion of the tanks. Your drain valves ALSO may drain off the side of your FW tank.

This is just a poor design that gets perpetuated from year to year. I think they put the side ports on the FW tanks to have nothing hanging down below the frame so they can put the underbelly cover on and have it smooth across. I added additional 2 inch steel bars to my dual FW tanks to cure the bulging, but I still start sucking air when I start getting low on water, even though there are probably many gallons left.

Dave Tremont · 08-05-2015, 02:07 PM

Could the assumption be made that both the intake and drain fittings are on the sides of the tank at the same elevation. And if so why will the drain allow the 16 gals to come out and not flow to the intake fitting so the pump will pick it up. I agree the tanks bulge or bow but 16 gal is over a 3rd of the overall capacity. So I guess a top mounted pickup system is unlikely. It seems like the easiest solution will be an extra water tank in the bed of my truck with a way to pump it to the camper. Wow I think I jumped around a lot with ?'s, ideas and solutions. Thanks to all who brought ideas to the discussion. I think I need to do a lot more checking of my campers water tank and I will post my findings.

ninjahbob · 08-05-2015, 05:09 PM

Buy or rent a Waterproof inspection camera,Endoscope or Borescope. may save you the trouble of taking your trailer apart. If you can get the scope in the fill pipe or at the pump inlet you can see what is going on. You may have to live with it due to the cost of repairs. The site below is just an example of what you can do with one of the above cameras. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIbATdhdRhA

Camper_bob · 08-06-2015, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewey02

If you get underneath and take a look at the tanks (you might have to remove the coroplast if you have a belly cover), you may see that on many Jayco models, the FW intake for the pump is on the side of the tank, and not on the bottom. You may also see that the tanks tend to bulge downward between where the metal bars hold them in. And if you have 2 tanks, the equalizers between the tanks also come off the side of the tanks.

What all this means is that your pump is working just fine. The problem is that it cannot get to those 16+ gallons of water still left in your tank. And I'll be willing to bet it is more than 16 gallons, because if you are measuring what's left by opening your FW drain valves, you are not getting the water that is contained in the bulging portion of the tanks. Your drain valves ALSO may drain off the side of your FW tank.

This is just a poor design that gets perpetuated from year to year. I think they put the side ports on the FW tanks to have nothing hanging down below the frame so they can put the underbelly cover on and have it smooth across. I added additional 2 inch steel bars to my dual FW tanks to cure the bulging, but I still start sucking air when I start getting low on water, even though there are probably many gallons left.

I think a lot of this is probably right. Except for the bulging issue, I don't think my tank bulges that much. I didn't get a chance to look last night so I will try this weekend...

Plowtoy · 08-06-2015, 01:01 PM

I had this happen with our current camper. We bought it last year and our first couple times out, we "ran out" of water with still at least 1/4 tank left (ours is floor mounted under a bunk so you can see it). So after a few times out and prematurely running out of water, I got home and pulled the FW tank out. What I found is on our tank, the outlet to the pump is on the bottom. I removed the 90 degree elbow and looked in the hole. What I found is there is a screen on the inside of the tank at the inlet that is about 4 inches tall. I managed to remove it (by distroying it) and found that the screen was completely covered in an alge like substance. I suspect the former owner never sanitized or drained the tank when they were not using it and this caused the water to allow growth. I reassembled the tank with out the screen and havent had a water flow issue since. I can now run the tank competely empty.

Dave Tremont · 08-06-2015, 02:24 PM

That could be my issue also. that could also explain why the drain will allow the tank to empty as it would not have a screen on it.

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