Water Storage in Winter

[Todd Klassy]

I have a 2015 Jayco Jay Flight 23RB and will be using in this autumn and winter. How exposed is the gray water and potable water tank to the elements? I had it installed with the thermal insulation package and the under body cover, but are the gray water and potable water tanks technically located outside or are they inside the RV? Does the propane heater keep these warm in colder weather? Does an electric heater in the main body do the same? If not, what are my options?

My dealer told me the gray water and potable water tanks are good to 0 degrees F. I don't know if I believe him and I guess I don't know where to turn for the definitive answer. Your help, as always, is much appreciated.

[PhyerPhyter]

The tanks are outside. (Stapled to the underside of your trailer). They are not heated. Ambient heat inside your trailer will not heat or keep from freezing. The insulation pkg will help keep interior warmer but not your tanks as they are external.

[spoon059]

Yes and no... your exterior holding tanks are technically insulated as they are in the insulated, heated and enclosed underbelly. They are also immediately adjacent to the in floor ducted heat. If you are running your propane furnace, it will keep the ducts warm. The ducts will also provide some heat to the insulated underbelly since you have the thermal package. On a cold night when temps dip into the low 20's the thermal package should keep you from freezing up.

Using electric heat in the main cabin of the camper will not provide any additional heat to the underbelly and enclosed tanks.

I doubt the insulation and heated ducts will keep your tanks from freezing when its 0 degrees outside. 0 is awful cold. For those temps you are going to need tank heaters, dedicated heating pads for each tank.

Very few people actually camp when it gets that cold. I have camped when it gets into the teens at night... its cold. I wanted to take my bride to NYC for Christmas when the city is decorated and beautiful. Early December in that year it never got above freezing. We didn't attempt to use onboard water. We took showers in the bath house and thoroughly dried off and got dressed inside the bath house. We used an oil filled radiator for heat and had a heated mattress pad to take the chill outta the bed before we got in at night. We have also gone to the Poconos in November... teens at night but would get into the low 30's during the day. I couldn't imagine using water in those temps.

[FishAr]

Following.

[gmapatime]

When it gets that cold that you are worrying about the tanks freezing, your water lines will have already froze-up for sure. Tank heaters aren't much help when your water lines freeze up first.

Steve

[mike837go]

I've done some checking and there is a package that adds an insulated layer underneath the frame. Part of the furnace output is directed into this "3 season" space.


That will keep all the water (tanks and lines) from freezing. Provided you keep the RV headed using the built-in furnace. An electric heater to keep the cabin warm will not circulate heated air past the tanks.


I have been half-thinking of modding my TT to extend its season past first frost.

[FishAr]

Before I bought my 23rb I was looking at a starcraft with the arctic package. I asked the dealer about leaving here in 20 degree weather and going to florida. He told me I'd best have all the water drained or the unit would freeze, and then fill when I got farther south.

He wasn't willing to tell me the arctic package would keep the water from freezing at cold temps.

[Todd Klassy]

Originally Posted by mike837go

I've done some checking and there is a package that adds an insulated layer underneath the frame. Part of the furnace output is directed into this "3 season" space.

This is exactly how my underbelly wad described to me. I have a contact at Jayco and I emailed him to get some clarification, too.

Most of my camping with the 23RB between November 1 and January 1 will be in climates with an average low temperature from 35 to 20 degrees F. If I can find away to keep water lines, water storage, and gray water from freezing at those temperatures I will be happy.

Here's what my "winter camping" notes include already:

* Hose for potable water tank is located under my couch. So as long as the temperature inside my RV does not go below 32 that line won't freeze.

* The gray water and potable water tanks are contained outside the RV under the frame BUT are enclosed in insulation and a barrier on the bottom of my trailer. Black water tank is also, but since I have a composting toilet in my bathroom, I don't use it.

* Adding some RV antifreeze to gray water tank will help prevent it from freezing. Draining it at night time is also advised and then adding antifreeze.

* Don't keep outdoor water hose hooked up at night or in lower temperatures unless it is a heated hose and/or has heated tape and insulation installed.

* Keeping an electric heater in the bathroom will help keep the gray water tank from freezing in lower temperatures.

* Block foam/insulation storage compartment doors + weather stripping.

* Block foam/insulation for windows + weather stripping.

* Checking with Jayco RE: whether or not the furnace blows head into insulated undercarriage to keep potable water and gray water tanks from freezing.

[ctbailey]

Todd, that's basically my list too. However, I have learned the hard way... Auxiliary tanks that are brought into the cabin can and do leak. Worst case scenario; your 20 gallon auxiliary tank springs a slow leak over night. That water will find its way into the walls and floor. And you might never know it until the day you put your foot through the floor.

Worst case calls for a tray that your inside tank sits on. Drain the containment tray to the outside directly.

Sort of like the trays that hot water heaters in our residential homes (common in apartments) sit in.

Water inside the coach is a risky move. Don't be scared, just respect it.

[Todd Klassy]

Jayco confirmed that my 23RB has a heat duct blowing warm air from the furnace to the tank area since my unit was built with the Thermal Package option.

[Todd Klassy]

Originally Posted by ctbailey

Todd, that's basically my list too. However, I have learned the hard way... Auxiliary tanks that are brought into the cabin can and do leak.

My tanks aren't inside the cabin. They are still outside under the frame. They are, however, contained within the Thermal Package insulation and thin layer of steel beneath it.

[Jagiven]

How cold do you expect to see, and for how long? That probably the most critical question. Next question will it warm up above freezing during the day.

The reason I ask is in northern Minnesota winter verses say a Georgia winter, are way different in how to prepare.

[Todd Klassy]

I will not stay in any place where it stays below freezing all day long. If winter hits Montana early, I will make a mad dash south. November and December the plan is to work/travel from northern Montana to southern Montana, Utah, eastern Nevada, Death Valley, and some of the higher elevations in northern Arizona, southern Utah, and New Mexico. But given weather history I expect mid 40s to high 30s during much of my trip and nothing lower than 20 degrees during the night.

[Jagiven]

I missed your post earlier about the temps. We camp every fall in those temps without doing much. We have an open underbelly, and all water lines run inside the unit, in the walls.

Fill your FW tank, and use from it, don't drain your water tanks. 20 degrees is not very cold, unless it stays sustained. Having the tanks fuller, has a lot of thermal mass. If it freezes it will be from the top down. And will take a lot of time. The tanks are large so the potential thin ice expansion is not an issue. If you drain the tanks, your more likely to freeze the gate valves.

If your pipe run inside the unit, leave cabinet doors ajar so heat can get inside incase you have any cool areas such as pipes that run behind the shower. Run your furnace and the ducted heat will help with the tanks.

[ctbailey]

Originally Posted by Todd Klassy

My tanks aren't inside the cabin. They are still outside under the frame. They are, however, contained within the Thermal Package insulation and thin layer of steel beneath it.

Yeah... I mis read the first post. I thought I read "my portable tank and hose is under the couch..."

Sorry.

But seriously, don't bring water into the coach... Don't ask me how I know this.

[Todd Klassy]

Looking at getting a low temperature alarm, too, to notify me when the outside hits 32 degrees.