Surge brakes hopping

[walleye]

Hey all need some help. Just bought a 95 1207 with surge brakes and my TV is a z71Colorado. We took it out for a dry run and I noticed when stoping the trailer would hop bad. I haven't pulled the drums off to look at pads yet, my 18 foot Tuffy with a 150 hp mariner fishing boat was much heavier then the pup so should I look into fixing the brakes or just remove? Any advise would be good. Thanks

[emjayuu]

Do you have an external brake controller? Is the setting set too high / or is there any boost settings set on it?

[walleye]

No the brakes on the pup are on the trailer, there's a master cylinder on the coupler on the pup, could it be the shock absorber is shot or brakes need to be adjusted or replaced.... Don't know kinda scary when stoping. Hops like crazy when stoping. Never had brakes on a trailer before.

[3firetrucks]

Hopefully only the brakes need adjusting. I have surge brakes on my 197. I was going to change to electric, but so far I'm not going to rush it. I've taken the trailer through some serious Mtn passes, and only one emergency brake when a car cut me off and slammed the brakes to make a right turn in front of me, and the brakes worked great.

[Spike99]

If it were my PUP and just bought, I would pull the hubs, inspect, remove an rust, check remaining brake pad thickness, etc. etc. I would then adjust the front cylinder. Lots of Y-Tube videos on how to inspection brake hubs. And while the hubs are off, I'd replace each hub's seals and re-grease each hub as well.

If wondering, I'm not a fan of surge brakes. For me, I've have much better luck with full electric brakes. If the existing brake hubs, brake pads or compression cylinder needs replacing, I would simply convert to full electric brakes. I find full electric brakes easier to adjust, easier to understand and easy to buy parts as well. Especially when STAR brake wiring is installed. re: http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...iring-Star.jpg If wondering, I have 3 x trailers with full electric brakes and never had breakage problems with them. Normal wear and normal annual re-greasing.

Hope this helps.

[walleye]

Just to add I have never had any trailer with any kind of brakes and have pulled some heavy stuff, just confused and don't think they are worth fixing.

[Spike99]

.

Each regional has different trailer brake laws. Some regions use 1,500, some use 2,000 and some use 3,000 lbs law. Each region is different.

If wondering, my region uses 3,000 lbs rule. If trailer is more than 3,000 lbs, it needs its own brakes. But if a trailer is < 3,000 lbs, NO trailer brakes is required. I used to pull a 6x10 utility trailer at 2,500 lbs and go tired of being pushed around by it. I installed Full Electric brakes under this trailer and now I understand why regions are using the 1,500 lbs law. Combo TV & attached Trailer braking ability is amazing. Now, any attached trailer over 1,500 lbs gets its own brakes. It's a life saver....

Do check your local laws and your TV's braking power ability numbers. Pick the lesser number of each. Works for my combos...

[walleye]

Good advise gonna look into that, It's either shock or pads I would think

[walleye]

Ok next from what I have read is to check brake adjustment, get that done tomorrow. In IL trailer brakes are required for trailers over 3000 lbs so why does this PUP have brakes when it weighs 2100 lbs?

[Doug]

Because it's safer.

JMHO,

Doug

[Spike99]

Originally Posted by walleye

Ok next from what I have read is to check brake adjustment, get that done tomorrow. In IL trailer brakes are required for trailers over 3000 lbs so why does this PUP have brakes when it weighs 2100 lbs?

Because trailer brakes really is safer and less "stress" on the Tow Vehicle brakes.

For my Tow Vehicle, it has a rear cargo capacity of 1,500 lbs. If I remember correctly, a Z71 Pickup has a rear cargo capacity of 2,500 lbs. This max number assume 150 lbs driver and no passenger and no items within the cab. The factory brakes can comfortable stop xxx lbs (1,500 for my TV and 2,500 for your TV). Let's add stuff in the vehicle's rear cargo area (like wood, peddle bikes, loaded coolers, etc. etc.) Let's add a wife, kid and perhaps a dog inside the tow vehicle as well. Add their wet weight and subtract from TV's max cargo capacity. Now, remaining Cargo capacity is down to say 1,000 lbs (for my vehicle) and perhaps 1,800 lbs for your vehicle. Attached a 2,600 lbs trailer behind the Tow Vehicle and TV's factory brakes are now being over stressed. This can cause longer stopping distance, this can cause warped front rotors and can cause extra wear/tear on TV's brake pads as well. And, if trailer has NO brakes, the trailer can "fish tail" around the TV as well. Especially during panic stops. If wondering, my 2,600 lbs trailer behind my TV would push my TV like a dry rag doll. I installed full electric brakes on my attached trailer and the TV/Trailer combo braking improvement was amazing. Like comparing night and day. Afterwards, I now understand why some regions are using 1,500 lbs and 2,000 lbs as their towing law number. So yes…. Having brakes on the trailer (even if under the max lbs law) is safer, creates less wear/tear and braking stress on your Tow Vehicle as well. Win-win-win in my books.

With above in mind, I'd get the trailer's existing Surge Brakes fixed. Or, convert to full electric brakes (if fixing existing surge brakes is too expensive). It's well worth it.

[chrisb]

Maybe it has a higher gvw. They dont go by empty weight. Check the gvw tag some where on camper or frame.i tow a 1006few with a jeep liberty and have no brakes and no problems, although i take my time with it

[walleye]

Thanks for the info I will pull drums Saturday before I adjust breaks to inspect and see if adjusting works, one more outage labor weekend and then will be in garage for the winter. Electric conversion doesn't look to pricey and might do that this winter.

[walleye]

Ok pulled drums and price tags were still on the hubs drums looked good and plenty of pad on the shoes. I did notice brakes were way out of adjustment, adjusted and I could still get the box to hop when braking.....is that normal ?

[walleye]

Could it be that the shock absorber it shot and letting the hitch move forward to quickly ?

[walleye]

Come on people I adjusted the brakes an seems better but I can still get the camper to hop with hard braking.is that how they work or is electric brakes in order this winter.......confused:dunno:

[Scott]

My 1206 has surge brakes. It does not hop when braking, although I have fortunately not been in a panic stop situation while towing. I don't know what is causing yours to do so. Sorry, wish I could be of more help.

[allanbradl]

Hello, how did the pad surface looked like? Were there any sighs of "glazing" (shiny spots)? Did you see any rust residue on the shoe surface? What may happened is that the drum inner surface gets rusted while trailer is not in use and when you take in the road the rust quickly accumulates on the shoe causing breaks to lock up (which causes "hopping"). So before the start of a camping season check your drums and shoes, clean the rust and remove glazing if any by gently using a wire brush. Second cause of lock up is when breaks are adjusted too tight (talking specifically of surge breaks on late jayco popup models). When you adjust your breaks to have a little drag, in some traffic or road conditions, the breaks will rapidly overheat which will cause break lock ups. So instead of adjusting for a little drag (as recommended by Dexter - axle manufacturer) I adjust my breaks just to have a rubbing sound. When I finish ajusting my wheels spin freely, if I turn the star wheel a click or two up, the wheel will stop much sooner due to an increased drag. That is how experienced mechanics do it on these trailers. Now, the breaks will still lock up occasionally when badly overheated (driving in severe traffic) but not as bad as if you adjust it too tight. Adjust the breaks, give it few test runs, find your "groove" setting and you should be fine, or get someone to do it for you. The last thing: according to the owner's manual your tongue must be lubricated, because that is where Atwood surge break actuator movable parts are so when you finish all of this you can also lubricate your own tongue too, with a lubricant of your choice of course. Hope it helps.

[walleye]

That sounds like what I a dealing with

[walleye]

Gonna pull both drums tomorrow ,drums are clean but will take a wire brush to the pads...good idea, cleaning pads and I did adjust the stars and see how that is. Still could be the shock in the hitch.