Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-17-2013, 09:27 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southeastern MA
Posts: 13
TV/TT Combination Opinion

We’re currently waiting delivery of the 2013 White Hawk 27 DSRL we ordered in January that we'll be towing with a 2012 Chevy Avalanche we bought last August. Based on what I’ve read so far on the forum I’ve determined that for this TV/TT combination, I’m looking at a TT with 5,400# dry weight, 7,500# GVW and a 610# dry hitch weight. I figure the hitch weight might increase to about 725# with a 1,000# payload, by maintaining the same 11.3% of the GVW on the tongue. The Avalanche has a 5,969# curb weight a 7,200# GVW, a 1,263# cargo capacity and a max TT weight rating of 8,000#. I’m thinking I should have about 500+ # of load capacity to spare and be well within the tow rating. The Class V factory installed hitch is rated for 1,100# with a WD hitch and the dealer is including a DrawTite HP Dual Cam WD hitch with torsion bars, though not sure what weight rating. I would like to know how people feel about this combination and whether or not I can expect to have any problems with TT sway. BTW, the Avalanche is equipped with StabilTrak Electronic Stability Control and the manual says that the TV will “sense” sway and automatically take corrective actions (reduce speed and brake) to stop it. Sounds nice in theory, not sure if it will work or help in reality and that I better depend more on having the right towing setup.
__________________
Spray56
'12 Chevy Avalanche LS 4WD, 5.3L V8, 3.42 Ratio, HD Cooling
'13 Jayco White Hawk 27 DSRL
'95 Coleman Chesapeake
Spray56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:17 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Terry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 4,923
Eagle - we need you ...lol

Hey Spray! We have lots of knowable folks here that can jump right in and help. Welcome!



__________________
Terry
2009 Jayco 26BH
2004 Chevy Silverado 1500
2009 JayFlight Manual Library

Want to add a signature to your posts? --> Click Here
Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 11:18 AM   #3
Member
 
GBandPB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Greenwood, MO
Posts: 50
We have your TT and pulled it first with a Silverado 1500 crew with the 5.3 motor and 3.73 gears. We picked it up from Middlebury, Indiana and towed it home to Missouri. It did fine averaging 7.5 mpg. In doing the math I decided that if we loaded the TT and the TV with four people and gear, it would likely push the limits of the 1500.

I sold the 1500 and bought a 2500hd with the 6.0 and 3.73 gears. So for, I notice that I average 8.5 mpg towing and feel more confidant in my breaking etc. Camping local, I would have been ok keeping the 1500 but we want to be able to cross the Rockies with more confidence. Or a false sense of anyway.
__________________
Greg & Patty
2014 Flagstaff 8528IKWS
2011 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Crew Cab
4x4 6.0l v8
GBandPB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 05:49 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
Rustic Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
Spray56,

It appears that you have a good understanding how the TV & TT weights work with each other, and focusing on loaded weight conditions is a smart move. IMO your TV/TT combination is doable, but one's loading habits will influence the outcome do to the limited TV payload capacity. To add to your do-diligence I offer the following for consideration:

* To dial in your weight assumptions, take your "loaded" (simulate going camping weight) Avalanche to a CAT scale and weigh it. Subtract the CAT scale weight from your TV's GVWR of 7,200lbs, the delta is the "actual" TV weight remaining what you have to work with.

* Your published Tow rating of 8,000lbs doesn't reflect the TV's actual tow rating, please note: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

* Once you have the new TT, take your TV/TT under loaded conditions to the CAT scale. IMO depending on your personal loading habits one could exceed some weight limits with your TV/TT combination. CAT how-to: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...igh-Your-tt-tv

* Although it's possible to maintain a 11% loaded tongue weight, but it will take considerable effort to maintain. Most find that a 13% to 15% is more common and desired....., especially with the longer TT's.

* TT dry weight is not the actual "ship weight" (yellow sticker on TT), I would add another 350lbs...., as an example: (Dry 5,400lbs) + (Ship Delta 350lbs) + (Dealer adds: battery/WDH/etc. 125lbs) + (TT cargo 1,000lbs) = 6,875lbs loaded weight (11%=756lbs, 13%=894lbs, 15%=1,031lbs)

* IMO the ideal HP Dual Cam WDH weight rating should be 1,200lbs.

* Keep in mind that upon departing the RV dealership the WDH was adjusted under "unloaded" conditions.., once the TV/TT is under "loaded" conditions the WDH in most cases will require a re-adjustment.

* Assuming that the TV/TT combination is loaded within it's weight limits and the WDH is sized/adjusted correctly, you should not experience any sway under normal towing conditions. Should a sway event arise you will be in the best position to control it's effects.

Hope this info helps.

Bob
__________________

2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
Rustic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 09:35 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dripping Springs
Posts: 153
Spray56, I'm pasting the content of a post I made after picking up our Whitehawk 27DSRL on April 3, below. Hopefully this will be helpful for you. We still have not made our first outing, it is planned for May 17-19; and with luck I can swing by a CAT scale in New Braunfels, TX to get the loaded weight. Thus far, we love the Whitehawk, time will tell how it all pans out! Best of luck with yours!

"In the meantime, I'd like to report that we hauled it just under 1,300 miles from Middlebury, IN to our ranch north of Dripping Springs, and averaged 8.44 MPG over 7 tanks of gas. We hauled 'er on Interstate highways almost the entire distance, and drove between 65 & 75 mph depending on the speed limits. (We averaged 15.2 to 16.2 MPG enroute to Middlebury, driving a wee bit faster.)

I weighed the truck on the way north in Elm Mott, just north of Waco, TX at a CAT scale. Not knowing how the process worked, I parked the truck across #2 & #3 weigh sections, and stood on #1 to reach the call button. Consequently, the steer axle weight reported at 240 lbs, the drive axle (front of truck) reported at 3960; and the trailer axle (rear of truck) reported 2720 for a gross of 6920 lbs. This startled me, I figured the truck would weigh far less. But after discussing it with my buddy, we decided that my "typical" ranch truck had quite a bit of extra weight. Things like boomers, 16' tow chains, Ranch Hand headache rack and front end replacement; tool box full of tools, etc. Plus us at 200 lbs each (actually, I weigh around 217 according to last physical), which made me wonder about accuracy of the #1 weight.

On the way back, we weighed in Marion, IL at another CAT scale, in the exact same fashion. This report showed 220 lbs for steer axle (me) 3820 lbs for drive axle (front of truck) and 8580 lbs for trailer axle (rear of truck and trailer). Gross weight of 12,620 lbs. Sticker from the Jayco factory showed weight of trailer to be 5,933 lbs.

So far, we're well within the parameters listed in the owners manual of 8,300 lbs for gross trailer weight; and 15,000 gross combined vehicle weight. And, the truck/trailer drove/pulled very well. The difference in towing between my previous TV (2000 Silverado, 5.3 & 4-speed automatic) and current vehicle with the 6-speed Allison is huge.

Thus far, I'm well satisfied with the TV/TT combo, and look forward to making some trips on non-Interstate highways at a slower pace. "
__________________
Mike

2014 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab, long box, Duramax and 3.73, SRW
Equal-i-zer 1k WDH, 2013 White Hawk 27DSRL

Los Madrones, a little slice of Texas hill country heaven
www.losmadrones.com
mikmurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 05:54 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
David472's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 1,393
Regarding towing speed. The TT "ST-type" tires are speed rated for a max of 65 mph. exceeding that you run the risk of a blow-out. You will find your fuel mileage will be better if you can hold your speed to 60 mph max. That is my approach.
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle 31.5RLDS
2018 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax
David472 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 07:12 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Nighthawk 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 572
2X to David472's comment about tires and speed. My 06 Tundra with 4.7 litre engine worked hard to pull our 26BH, which is 1000# lighter than the 27 DSRL. '12 Tundra pulls the 27 DSRL just fine with approx 10 MPG. Got 8 MPG with the 06 Tundra. Your 3.42 real axle and
the additional weight of a 4X4 will probably have your truck working pretty hard, especially on hills. When you get it loaded up take it to a CAT scale and see what it all weighs. For a better towing experience try not to exceed 85% your gross combined vehicle weight. I suspect that
you will be close to the limits. I think the truck's stability control you mention is accomplished by the rear brakes. Good luck with your new rig!
__________________
2012 Toyota Tundra 5.7 Litre DoubleCab
6 speed, 4.30 Limited Slip, Tow Package
2013 Jayco White Hawk 27DSRL
2010 Jayco JayFlight 26BH sold
Yamaha EF2000is Generators (2)
1996 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
Nighthawk 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 06:04 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 67
Focus on keeping the Avalanche weight under the gross and rear axle ratings. Pack stuff in the trailer. I had a 2012 Suburban (23k miles on it), 2012 Avalanche (15k miles on it), and 2013 Suburban (19k miles on it). All had the 5.3 and 3.42. I used them to tow stock trailers, horse trailers, and utility trailers. (Came close to trying my trailer, but would have been in trouble for exceeding the ratings if anything happened.) They did fine. I was problably close to max on one trip with a 20ft stock trailer, 9 llamas, show equipment, and 1000lb of feed.
__________________

Dad of Four Girls
2011 Silverado CC 2500HD
2011 Jayflight G2 32BHDS
Dadof4Girls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 05:38 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southeastern MA
Posts: 13
Thank you to everyone who has replied to this post so far an offered their opinion. I know the first thing I'm obviously going to do is hit the scales once I take delivery and load everything up. I have a public truck scale about 45 minutes from the house where I assume they have the three separate scales, otherwise, I may have to try the local junk yard here in town with their single scale. Anyways, I wanted to expand on the background info I provided and mention that my manual states I have a 14,000# GCWR, which I would exceed by 700# if I were to hit the GVWR for the TV and TT. I also didn't mention that the 2012 Avalanche has the 6-speed transmission with the tow-haul mode feature. I found in a post on ChevyTalk.org the following information about net gear ratios with the 6 sp trans and the 3.42 axle ratio versus other trans and rear end ratios:

Final drive ratio's.......

6 speed w/3.08 ratio
1st: 4.02 x 3.08 = 12.38
2nd: 2.36 x 3.08 = 7.27
3rd: 1.53 x 3.08 = 4.71
4th: 1.15 x 3.08 = 3.54
5th: 0.85 x 3.08 = 2.62
6th: 0.67 x 3.08 = 2.06

6 speed w/3.42 ratio
1st: 4.02 x 3.42 = 13.74
2nd: 2.36 x 3.42 = 8.07
3rd: 1.53 x 3.42 = 5.23
4th: 1.15 x 3.42 = 3.93
5th: 0.85 x 3.42 = 2.91
6th: 0.76 x 3.42 = 2.60

4 speed w/3.73
1st: 3.06 x 3.73 = 11.41
2nd: 1.75 x 3.73 = 6.52
3rd: 1.00 x 3.73 = 3.73
4th: 0.70 x 3.73 = 2.62

4 speed w/3.42
1st: 3.06 x 3.42 = 10.46
2nd: 1.75 x 3.42 = 5.99
3rd: 1.00 x 3.42 = 3.42
4th: 0.70 x 3.42 = 2.39

Based on this and what they're saying on the other forums, the 3.42 is equivalent to the lower (3.73 and 4.10) axles they used to make available when considering the new 6-sp trans versus the older 4-so trans.

One other question I had is with regards to Nighthawk 96's comment on not exceeding 85% of the GCWR. I was speaking to a Chevy service department today and they wondered if you meant with regards to the dry weight when looking at trailers in order to allow enough capacity for gear. Otherwise, doesn't the manufacturer build some room for error in the 14,000# GCWR specification listed in my manual?
__________________
Spray56
'12 Chevy Avalanche LS 4WD, 5.3L V8, 3.42 Ratio, HD Cooling
'13 Jayco White Hawk 27 DSRL
'95 Coleman Chesapeake
Spray56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 07:50 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 67
You are indeed correct on the 6sp and 3.42 axle. It provides a great match.

As for GCWR, I believe that you can go to 100% without issue. It has that rating for warranty and performance.
__________________

Dad of Four Girls
2011 Silverado CC 2500HD
2011 Jayflight G2 32BHDS
Dadof4Girls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 09:22 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri City, The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,063
There's no way I can improve on the info already provided but I'll provide a couple of things I've noticed.
My hitch (dealer installed) needed tightening after a couple of outings.
Our TV (Ford Explorer) is well enough matched to our light-weight trailer and is pretty content to cruise along at 60mph (my target speed) and ANY mpg over 9.5 I consider to be "good".
2x on your plan to hit the scales. I knew that I was within my load range and my TT was ballanced but after visiting the CAT, I KNEW I was in range and ballanced.
__________________
Cheers,
T_

2013 F-350 CC SB 2WD 6.7PS
2013 Eagle Premier 351 RLTS
-SOLD- 2012 X23B
-SOLD- 2003 Ford Expedition 5.4, Bilstein shocks
RedHorse1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 05:44 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Nighthawk 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 572
You are considered to be legal and safe to tow at 100% of your GCWR. You will find many folks on this and other forums who think you will probably be happier to be at 80 to 85% of GCWR. If you travel mostly in the flatlands you will probably be ok. IMHO, get into the hills and mountains and your truck will work hard for its living.
__________________
2012 Toyota Tundra 5.7 Litre DoubleCab
6 speed, 4.30 Limited Slip, Tow Package
2013 Jayco White Hawk 27DSRL
2010 Jayco JayFlight 26BH sold
Yamaha EF2000is Generators (2)
1996 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
Nighthawk 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 07:16 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Seann45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Saskatoon Sask Canada
Posts: 10,714
Total cargo weight is determined with a 150 lb driver and empty truck... soo remember to add the weight of all the passengers and other cargo you add.
__________________
Seann
2004 Chev Silverado Duramax optioned past the max. 2009 Jayco Eagle 308 RLS 900watts of solar, Lithium batteries (400amp hour), 2000 watt (4000 surge) whole house inverter.
145days boondockinig in2023 2022/151 2021[/COLOR]
93/2020,157/2019219/2018 206/2017,215/2016, 211/2015, 196/14, 247/13, 193/12

Seann45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 05:26 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dripping Springs
Posts: 153
Just checked the TT tires. They are Grand Ride Power Towing tires, ST205/75R14. Load range C. Maximum load of 1760 lbs at 50 PSI. No statements regarding limitations on towing speed. And, since it was cool and wet for much of our tow back from IN I was not worried about tire temps as I do when towing in W. TX in August! However, that does raise the question, for Jayco, of why put 4 tires with combined towing weight of 7,040 lbs on a TT rated to 7,500 lbs gross weight? (And, none of these wheels have wheel weights, indicating the tires are mounted without balancing.) Even if the specified tongue weight of 610 lbs transfers totally to the TV, that still appears to leave very little margin of error in terms of weight on the TT and the four tires.

I'm thinking we'll get one year of use from these tires and then replace them with something with more weight carrying capacity. And we'll also have the wheels balanced.
__________________
Mike

2014 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab, long box, Duramax and 3.73, SRW
Equal-i-zer 1k WDH, 2013 White Hawk 27DSRL

Los Madrones, a little slice of Texas hill country heaven
www.losmadrones.com
mikmurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 07:33 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Nighthawk 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 572
Axles are rated at 3500# max each, so Jayco has this covered. However, I agree, a mighty slim margin. The 65 mph figure come from
Goodyear Marathon tires on lots of trailers. I was a little unhappy going from my 26BH with 15 inch tires to the 14 inch ones on the White Hawk. Don't know why they decided on the 14 inchers. Smaller rims and smaller tires probably saves a few bucks. Maybe they handle better with the wider axle spacing. I will try to get Maxxis tires for the next set.
__________________
2012 Toyota Tundra 5.7 Litre DoubleCab
6 speed, 4.30 Limited Slip, Tow Package
2013 Jayco White Hawk 27DSRL
2010 Jayco JayFlight 26BH sold
Yamaha EF2000is Generators (2)
1996 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
Nighthawk 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 12:00 AM   #16
Moderator Emeritus
 
Rustic Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmurphy View Post
snip.... However, that does raise the question, for Jayco, of why put 4 tires with combined towing weight of 7,040 lbs on a TT rated to 7,500 lbs gross weight? .....snip
Mike,

Your correct, Jayco (and most other RV manufactures) size/load range the tires based on the TV carrying the tongue weight, cutting it to close for me as well...., one big reason I went from a "C" to an "E" tire on my TT..

Bob
__________________

2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
Rustic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 02:30 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dripping Springs
Posts: 153
After thinking about this more, I decided NOT to wait to upgrade from a load range C tire to the next load range, D. I will be towing this rig across west TX in August, and don't want to be thinking about the tires being marginal when highway surface temperatures will likely be over 130F. However, finding a 14" load range D trailer tire has proven problematic. The only one I've found is a Kumho, and I've requested that our local Discount Tire order 4 and let me know when they arrive. I'll use the original tires on another trailer I have that has 14" tires. Other White Hawk owners, you might want to check the tires provided on your trailer and ponder the math and your situation. ...
__________________
Mike

2014 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab, long box, Duramax and 3.73, SRW
Equal-i-zer 1k WDH, 2013 White Hawk 27DSRL

Los Madrones, a little slice of Texas hill country heaven
www.losmadrones.com
mikmurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 02:17 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dripping Springs
Posts: 153
I sent an email to Jayco's Customer service on the tire issue yesterday:

I received a call earlier today from Joe Ehlers with Jayco in Middlebury, he wanted to respond to my comments.

He said that at Jayco they use 13% as the figure when calculating the tongue weight of a fully loaded trailer; and presume this transfers all to the TV. In this case, 13% of the fully loaded White Hawk at 7,500 lbs will be 975 lbs; and transferred to the TV. Using his premise, 7,500 lbs less the 975 transfer yields 6525 lbs on the TT, within the range of the load C tires which at 1760 each totals 7040, allowing in their view a margin of 515 lbs.

So, that's their reasoning for the stock tires on the White Hawk. I told Joe I still intended to replace the load range c tires with new d tires, just for my peace of mind when traveling west this summer. Fortunately, I have some other utility trailers on the ranch, so I can use the load c tires on them.
__________________
Mike

2014 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab, long box, Duramax and 3.73, SRW
Equal-i-zer 1k WDH, 2013 White Hawk 27DSRL

Los Madrones, a little slice of Texas hill country heaven
www.losmadrones.com
mikmurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 10:18 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dripping Springs
Posts: 153
The tires that Discount Tire finally found for me are Goodyear tires made specifically for UHaul, manufactured in Canada. They are load range D, each tire rated to 2000 lbs. They were $110 each before taxes, etc. I'll feel better when hauling our trailer this summer across TX knowing we're well within parameters on the tires.
__________________
Mike

2014 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD Crew Cab, long box, Duramax and 3.73, SRW
Equal-i-zer 1k WDH, 2013 White Hawk 27DSRL

Los Madrones, a little slice of Texas hill country heaven
www.losmadrones.com
mikmurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 05:52 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Nighthawk 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 572
Thanks for the info mikmurphy, are these Marathon ST tires?
__________________
2012 Toyota Tundra 5.7 Litre DoubleCab
6 speed, 4.30 Limited Slip, Tow Package
2013 Jayco White Hawk 27DSRL
2010 Jayco JayFlight 26BH sold
Yamaha EF2000is Generators (2)
1996 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
Nighthawk 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Jayco, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.