Campfire rules and regs

[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by barryg

Don't want to be the schmoe here but I would disagree with your interpretation of provided being synonymous with intended in this case. In there context they are referring to the physical provided facilities at the campground meaning that you can only use what they have provided a fire ring, grill, stove or fireplace. Am fairly sure that this is in respect to what others have mentioned of campers not building fires wherever they want. Many of the campground rules were made many years and even decades ago long before solo stoves etc were even in the marketplace and have not been updated regularly with the changing times and technology. Do I think the solo is safe to use yes but it was not provided by the CG entity and hence the host's actions.

As far as really rectifying the issue lobby the folks who designate the rules (and that may vary depending on what campground you are at state vs federal) present your case stating safety reasons, cleanliness, smokiness etc. Not to make light of the current wildfire situation but now might be a good time to do it. Though it wouldn't surprise me that if successful that they would ban regular type open fires in pits and rings and only allow these types of devices in the future. There is a place we go sometimes that does allow fires but they cannot be on the ground itself you have to have a fire pan for the fire, you have to haul in your own wood and you have to haul out your ashes. This is within a special area within a national park sounds like the solo would fit the bill just fine in this case.

I would normally agree, except for the "grill, stove, and fireplace," portion. Your interpretation means RV stoves, supplied grills, or portable gas firepits are also subject to the same sentence. All of which were clearly in use at various sites throughout the campground. When I brought this up to them, they said its because they are propane burning grills etc. However, neither the campground rules, nor the state fire regulations made any distinction between devices based on their fuel use. As I have said before, without the distinct clause being clarified (provided by whom) then it is synonymous with intended; especially in light of their application of the rule by ignoring other "grills" and "stoves" clearly being used, yet unprovided for by the campgrounds.

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[bansai]

Originally Posted by Cirrob

My question is, what resources can you pro campers point to that would establish clarity on the issue (for or against) outside of California forest services own regulations or that of the chosen campground, provided there are no fire bans across the bored.
Thanks in advance.

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I found 2 phone numbers you can try.

San Bernardino forest supervisor's office at (909) 382-2600.
Or the info line for your campground which is (909)336-6717 I'm not sure if that's just an automated recording or what...but that first number should get you started as far as your question goes.

Did you ask them if you used your solo stove *in the provided* fire pit if you would be ok? I'm presuming it fits, and it might not, but curious.

I always try to find compromise. I feel fortunate we're allowed to have fires at all anymore.

[The Logans]

It IS California... I believe there is even a regulation regarding how many acorns that an individual campground squirrel is allowed to possess at any give time. :-)

[barryg]

While I stand by what I said I too have run across the propane discrepancy many times in our camping excursions and in some campgrounds I have seen it in the rules section of the CG rules board, registration area etc stating they were ok even in fire ban areas. Now I know I am starting to get on thin ice here (not that I wasn't before) and am speculating but it is just the way I have interpreted the rules and reasons. The open flame is confusing but I think the original intent was wood burning fire and its associated hazards of being left hot, not out, still smoldering, flying sparks that can ignite some other fuel many feet away from the fire whereas propane can't doesn't have those issues (yes it could still cause a fire but not nearly as easily) and stuff inside the rv is contained I don't think their has ever been an issue with someone saying you cant use the stove/oven in your rv. I have been in places where charcoal grills were not allowed but propane ones were ok. Again I think that many of these rules were made in the 30's, 40's 50's and 60's when RVing was not a real big thing heck even tent camping while both were certainly happening not nearly to the extent as now. Open fire cooking was the norm not gas grills and portable fire gas fire pits and rules just have not been updated.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Cirrob

I would normally agree, except for the "grill, stove, and fireplace," portion. Your interpretation means RV stoves, supplied grills, or portable gas firepits are also subject to the same sentence. All of which were clearly in use at various sites throughout the campground. When I brought this up to them, they said its because they are propane burning grills etc. However, neither the campground rules, nor the state fire regulations made any distinction between devices based on their fuel use. As I have said before, without the distinct clause being clarified (provided by whom) then it is synonymous with intended; especially in light of their application of the rule by ignoring other "grills" and "stoves" clearly being used, yet unprovided for by the campgrounds.

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Several of your posts make it sound like you are an attorney. You keep trying to parce words and make statements like an attorney speaking to a jury. You live in California and they make the rules and they intrupret the intent, and they decide right and wrong...... While I'm supportive of the general use of one of these portable units, I also think some of the recent posts from "the jury" are on point. Propane yes, open flame burning no. CG's generally don't want you choosing where you set your campfire. Sit your device inside the provided fire ring and I'm guessing your problem goes away. Advancing this as a legal issue, and you lose.

[bansai]

Where I live, I can't even have an open fire on my own property that isn't propane or in a charcoal grill.

None the less I burned a cord of pine in my Chimnea over the summer. I've also been known to get away with parking my camper in front of my house for a week at a time also 'illegal'. You can go a long ways by just being nice in general.

Agree fully with the post above me. This is a no starter from a legal perspective.

[bluegill1]

If you were planning on setting your new fire pit on the ground and it was going to burn a new spot, then I think you're wrong, plain and simple.
If you're fire pit is mounted above the ground (like ones you see at Home Depot or Lowes) then you might have a case(a poor one though). I'm not talking about jury rigging it above ground, I mean above ground from the factory.
The campground rules are rules that are there for a reason, believe me, I think we've all witnessed the same actions that you had with the host. But sometimes you just say "OK" and move on. Stick it on or in the camp supplied ring and you should be good to go.
Snuggle up with the wife and kids, enjoy the fire, roast a marshmallow, grill a good hot dog, tell some stories, sing some songs and enjoy the fire and the time with the family.
How and where the campfire is doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
(On a side note, might be a good teaching moment to teach the kids how important it is to follow the rules)

[vcbice]

I am not surprised. Think of it this way.

Someone puts their portable fire thing where it will damage someone's awning. This prompts the CG owners (the state) to ban every fire device except the one they provide. Doesn't matter what you do, you are being restricted by past abuses.

Open flame in the SW can mean ANYTHING with a flame that you can see. Propane, wood, and even sometimes applies to cig lighters. Yep, even stoves.

Other places Open Flame means a fire/flame that cannot be shut off with a valve. Check your area for the rules.

I stopped using campfires after a close call. Tent camping in nat forest. Fire pit, rocks around it. Cleared about 30ft in all directions. A largish log was in there and burst, throwing burning chips about 40ft. One hit in some grass and started a small grass fire. All four of us had to run and put it out or it would have easily spread to surrounding area. Just not worth the risk to me.

I do consider the portable 'fire pits' a good alternative and much safer than the fire rings provided by some campgrounds.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

You live in California and they make the rules and they intrupret the intent, and they decide right and wrong...... While I'm supportive of the general use of one of these portable units, I also think some of the recent posts from "the jury" are on point. Propane yes, open flame burning no. CG's generally don't want you choosing where you set your campfire. Sit your device inside the provided fire ring and I'm guessing your problem goes away. Advancing this as a legal issue, and you lose.

I have to say I agree with this post.

I had no idea what a Solo Stove Bonfire was until I looked it up. It is a portable fire pit that burns wood with a large open flame. Very cool concept. However because it is a portable fire pit with an open flame, I would be surprised if people were allowed to use this in WI state parks unless it was placed inside the fire ring. I'm thinking if you had put it inside the fire ring no one would have batted an eyelash.

All that said I commend you for following what you were told and not getting into a hassle. It's just not worth it.

[LoveCamping58]

Any chance you have a pic of the stove? thanks may want 1