Campfire rules and regs

[Cirrob]

Recently i purchased a solostove bonfire using Amazon gift cards. The price is stupid high but I ended up paying 50 bucks for it. It really is a great device though. Gas pits fly through propane and give off very little heat, and traditional campfires give off too much smoke. This gives off a ton of heat and virtually no smoke once it gets going.

So, I have it. It's great. But I got into a polite disagreement with the camp host here in California last weekend. They stated I'm not allowed to use it. However I checked the local fire bans, restrictions, and regulations; even checked the individual campsite rules. Nothing posted said I could not use it. The closest they got was a line, " prohibited except for fire rings, grills, stoves, or fireplaces provided for that use."

The problem is the word "provided." Without proper context, it is synonymous with "intended" in this chosen and critical sentence (yes, I read contracts and regulations for a living but am not a lawyer... an analyst for a government agency is all I'm saying). The state forest service regulations were even more liberally in my favor stating, "prohibited except for exhibit a, b, and c," with exhibit a, b, and c being a list of campgrounds within geographic regions on the mountain in question.

I am not trying to be a thorn, but the pit is nice, safer than what is available at the site, and is perfectly suited for this lifestyle. I want to continue using it while camping. My question is, what resources can you pro campers point to that would establish clarity on the issue (for or against) outside of California forest services own regulations or that of the chosen campground, provided there are no fire bans across the bored.


Thanks in advance.

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[merlinhomeauto]

Their campground their rules.

[Sundancer330]

What exactly is the reason they say you can't use it.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Cirrob

Recently i purchased a solostove bonfire using Amazon gift cards. The price is stupid high but I ended up paying 50 bucks for it. It really is a great device though. Gas pits fly through propane and give off very little heat, and traditional campfires give off too much smoke. This gives off a ton of heat and virtually no smoke once it gets going.

So, I have it. It's great. But I got into a polite disagreement with the camp host here in California last weekend. They stated I'm not allowed to use it. However I checked the local fire bans, restrictions, and regulations; even checked the individual campsite rules. Nothing posted said I could not use it. The closest they got was a line, " prohibited except for fire rings, grills, stoves, or fireplaces provided for that use."

The problem is the word "provided." Without proper context, it is synonymous with "intended" in this chosen and critical sentence (yes, I read contracts and regulations for a living but am not a lawyer... an analyst for a government agency is all I'm saying). The state forest service regulations were even more liberally in my favor stating, "prohibited except for exhibit a, b, and c," with exhibit a, b, and c being a list of campgrounds within geographic regions on the mountain in question.

I am not trying to be a thorn, but the pit is nice, safer than what is available at the site, and is perfectly suited for this lifestyle. I want to continue using it while camping. My question is, what resources can you pro campers point to that would establish clarity on the issue (for or against) outside of California forest services own regulations or that of the chosen campground, provided there are no fire bans across the bored.


Thanks in advance.

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The COE has pretty much the same rule enforce on Dale Hollow Lake shoreline. Wording includes something to the extent "or an appliance designed for that purpose" . I had a run in with a ranger the first year it was put in place and they said it wasn't allowed. I was using a unit built by Coleman that was a 2x4 foot metal pan with legs and a solid lid with a 14 " high heavy mesh fence completely around. It was designed as a portable fire pit and stated so on the product description.

Later at an unrelated public meeting with the COE I ran across the same rangers and before I could say anything, they apologized and said I was correct all along. In your case if its a private CG you are screwed because they can make the rules and enforce them the way they want. If its a state park or national parks property you can contact the district supervisor at HQ and you will have a good chance of winning. Others will thank you.

[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by merlinhomeauto

Their campground their rules.

It's a state campground. So it's our campground. Regardless, if someone imposes damages on another party, citing a rule for cause, they better be damned sure they have left no room in the wording of the cited rule for interpretations contrary to theirs.

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[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by Sundancer330

What exactly is the reason they say you can't use it.

It literally came down to that it wasn't the fire ring at the camp sight being used. It was the busiest set of camp hosts I had ever seen. Reminded me of HOA types that have nothing better to do than to time how long your trash cans are on the curb.

I'm all for order, but there comes a line that, when crossed, it becomes "pretending to have fun as long as you remain within code"



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[nunyadamn]

Originally Posted by Cirrob

It literally came down to that it wasn't the fire ring at the camp sight being used. It was the busiest set of camp hosts I had ever seen. Reminded me of HOA types that have nothing better to do than to time how long your trash cans are on the curb.

I'm all for order, but there comes a line that, when crossed, it becomes "pretending to have fun as long as you remain within code"



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What campground? I was at Silver Strand State Beach in San Diego in June and the camp host said I couldn't use my propane fire pit 6 feet behind my trailer on the sand, but I could use it on the asphalt next to my trailer. Her reasoning was - others in the campground would be jealous because I have one on the sand. Worst excuse I have ever heard, but what am I supposed to do?

[Sundancer330]

Next time I went to that campground I would take a chunk of wood place it inside the fire ring and place your solostove on top of it. Was this a private or state park campground, our state park hosts don't enforce any rules for the most part, they leave that up to the DNR personal that cover the parks.

[repacs0103]

Here in Michigan I couldn't care less what the host at a state park says- but maybe CA is different.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Cirrob

It's a state campground. So it's our campground. Regardless, if someone imposes damages on another party, citing a rule for cause, they better be damned sure they have left no room in the wording of the cited rule for interpretations contrary to theirs.

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Contact State Park HQ and talk to someone with a title not the secretary that answers the phone. I would suggest you ask them if the rule is intended to allow use of appliances [portable fire pits] designed for the purpose of a protected fire. Don't talk specifically about your model. I suspect that they will say yes. At that point tell them that you were told the opposite by a cg host at what ever state park. Follow up your phone call with an email to the same person and ask them to document the conversation. That will give you a document to take with you on your next outing.

There is no question that your unit is designed as a portable fire pit and is clean burning and safe. I 'm surprised that a host would step into the role of enforcing rules rather than advising that you might be in violation and then ask you to check with a ranger in the morning.

Good luck. I would say you are right, but then again you are talking California where stupid rules are the norm.

[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Contact State Park HQ and talk to someone with a title not the secretary that answers the phone. I would suggest you ask them if the rule is intended to allow use of appliances [portable fire pits] designed for the purpose of a protected fire. Don't talk specifically about your model. I suspect that they will say yes. At that point tell them that you were told the opposite by a cg host at what ever state park. Follow up your phone call with an email to the same person and ask them to document the conversation. That will give you a document to take with you on your next outing.

There is no question that your unit is designed as a portable fire pit and is clean burning and safe. I 'm surprised that a host would step into the role of enforcing rules rather than advising that you might be in violation and then ask you to check with a ranger in the morning.

Good luck. I would say you are right, but then again you are talking California where stupid rules are the norm.

Your last line should be our state flag.

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[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by nunyadamn

What campground? I was at Silver Strand State Beach in San Diego in June and the camp host said I couldn't use my propane fire pit 6 feet behind my trailer on the sand, but I could use it on the asphalt next to my trailer. Her reasoning was - others in the campground would be jealous because I have one on the sand. Worst excuse I have ever heard, but what am I supposed to do?

Campground called dogwood in the San Bernardino forest near lake arrow head.

The campground is nice but the environment felt sterile. The hosts constantly patrolled looking for the silliest infraction. I saw them harass several campers for not having the rear view mirror tag on their vehicle; something that, ironically, is against the law in this state. However, we had several groups near us blasting music through a p.a. system, and the hosts drove right by. I suspect because the groups looked numerous and hostile so they never harassed them. Instead they went after minorities (asians) for their car tag and small families like mine who were being disruptive with our smokeless firepit.

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[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by repacs0103

Here in Michigan I couldn't care less what the host at a state park says- but maybe CA is different.

Well normally I would agree. But I was with my family and I suspect the authorities would have been called. Granted I felt I was correct but I did not want to risk being arrested for a principled argument in front of my kids and ruin the weekend.

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[pconroy]

Ya know, there's a time and a place to take a stand.
And I agree - that wasn't it.

[Nukeneck]

We have camped at Death Valley NP for several Thanksgivings. Usually stay at Stovepipe Wells. Your type of fire pit is the only type they allow because it doesn't scorch the ground, makes sense.

[Aardvarkjff]

My advice: Contact Solo Stove technical support/engineering. Explain the situation and the regs for California. Then.... Send them a letter in writing with the regs and politely ask them to certify/state/confirm that their product is compliant with the regs. Then...... you may need to go to the CA authorities who issued the regs anpd provide them with the repsonse from Solo Stove and ask them if they agree th at it complies with the rules. If they say yes, keep it handy and maybe check wtih the campground ahead of time to see if they will agree with the State of CA of if they disagree. Since this sounds like it may be an ongoing issue, having the State's OK in writing may go a long way to making the busy-body rangers move on to the next campsite...... Maybe if all lines up, then you could post it here for others to use. Just a thought. Good Luck.

[Cirrob]

Originally Posted by Aardvarkjff

My advice: Contact Solo Stove technical support/engineering. Explain the situation and the regs for California. Then.... Send them a letter in writing with the regs and politely ask them to certify/state/confirm that their product is compliant with the regs. Then...... you may need to go to the CA authorities who issued the regs anpd provide them with the repsonse from Solo Stove and ask them if they agree th at it complies with the rules. If they say yes, keep it handy and maybe check wtih the campground ahead of time to see if they will agree with the State of CA of if they disagree. Since this sounds like it may be an ongoing issue, having the State's OK in writing may go a long way to making the busy-body rangers move on to the next campsite...... Maybe if all lines up, then you could post it here for others to use. Just a thought. Good Luck.

Thanks. Good suggestions. I will also follow up with the California State parks headquarters. Can't hurt to perform a two pronged assault on the situation.

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[bluegill1]

Here in Ohio, State Campgrounds are all fires in designated fire pit areas. This is to stop people from moving the fire pits and creating more burned areas in the grass,Otherwise you'd have sites w multiple 3' circles of "I wanted my fire over here".
Is it possible to put your new fire pit inside the parks fire pit ring? Does it fit inside? Here the rings are purdy big.
That would stop any controversy.
Keep us updated.

[bansai]

I have a solo stove, love it. It's not the big one like the OP has, mine is just for one or 2 people to cook on. I've never been told I can't use it anywhere I've camped - as long as 'open fires' are allowed at the time. I can see how a camp host would interpret the rules from the original post, as 'open fires are fine, as long as they take place in our *provided* fire pit / ring.' Most of the campgrounds I go to make it clear that this is the rule.

This is to keep morons from starting their own fires all over the campground in improvised fire pits they cobbled together themselves. Since the solo stove is considered an open fire, I can see where the confusion comes from.

[barryg]

Don't want to be the schmoe here but I would disagree with your interpretation of provided being synonymous with intended in this case. In there context they are referring to the physical provided facilities at the campground meaning that you can only use what they have provided a fire ring, grill, stove or fireplace. Am fairly sure that this is in respect to what others have mentioned of campers not building fires wherever they want. Many of the campground rules were made many years and even decades ago long before solo stoves etc were even in the marketplace and have not been updated regularly with the changing times and technology. Do I think the solo is safe to use yes but it was not provided by the CG entity and hence the host's actions.

As far as really rectifying the issue lobby the folks who designate the rules (and that may vary depending on what campground you are at state vs federal) present your case stating safety reasons, cleanliness, smokiness etc. Not to make light of the current wildfire situation but now might be a good time to do it. Though it wouldn't surprise me that if successful that they would ban regular type open fires in pits and rings and only allow these types of devices in the future. There is a place we go sometimes that does allow fires but they cannot be on the ground itself you have to have a fire pan for the fire, you have to haul in your own wood and you have to haul out your ashes. This is within a special area within a national park sounds like the solo would fit the bill just fine in this case.