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Old 12-16-2016, 11:39 AM   #41
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:59 AM   #42
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What happens to the legislation if Obammmmmma doesn't sign before he leaves office on 1/20? Does it go back to Congress to be repassed by the new congress or is it still available to the incoming president?
We should assume that he will sign it, and act appropriately, don't you think? One thing I found interesting is that there's no date on the fee increase in the bill. Presumably that means that *officially* it will take effect immediately upon the president's signature, but how long will it take to actually be implemented? Your guess is as good as mine.

If I remember my high school civics classes correctly, the pres has 10 days to sign it. If he doesn't sign it, then it becomes law, EXCEPT if Congress is not in session. Then it does not become law. That's called a "pocket veto". Congress is not in session after today, I believe, so it will *require* Obama's signature to become law. If he doesn't sign it, then it's effectively vetoed. The 10-day requirement means it can't carry over, and the new Congress would have to take it up again in the next session beginning in January.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:04 PM   #43
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We should assume that he will sign it, and act appropriately, don't you think? One thing I found interesting is that there's no date on the fee increase in the bill. Presumably that means that *officially* it will take effect immediately upon the president's signature, but how long will it take to actually be implemented? Your guess is as good as mine.

If I remember my high school civics classes correctly, the pres has 10 days to sign it. If he doesn't sign it, then it becomes law, EXCEPT if Congress is not in session. Then it does not become law. That's called a "pocket veto". Congress is not in session after today, I believe, so it will *require* Obama's signature to become law. If he doesn't sign it, then it's effectively vetoed. The 10-day requirement means it can't carry over, and the new Congress would have to take it up again in the next session beginning in January.
1st I would never assume that Obammmmmma would do anything appropriate. I think your civics lesson sounds like I remember it. One way or another I suspect it will get passed and signed by one president or another.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:08 PM   #44
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1st I would never assume that Obammmmmma would do anything appropriate.
I meant to say that WE should act appropriately. Which means getting the Senior Pass now, before the price gets jacked up. If we're old enough, of course.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:14 PM   #45
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I absolutely believe that the NPS needs and deserves more Taxpayer support. It is maddening to me that we have $$ for just about everything and everybody except for the very things that belong to We the people and are enjoyed by so many of us. The parks and reservors are used to punish the people when things don't go the way politicans want. Example are the brief shutdowns over funding bill. I was vacationing in the Smokey NP during one just a few years ago and a short parkway on the west side of the park was closed because the rangers were on standdown. Interesting since the parkway did not require any employee attention and the rangers had nothing else to do with their time than put up barracades on both ends.

They should raise the daily entry use fees. At 3 times current rates they would be a bargain for anyone [less than half a tank of gas].

Hope to see the Senior pass increase passed.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:36 PM   #46
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A good article on the budget shortfall that is affecting the NPS from doing the job they have been charged to do.

https://www.npca.org/articles/832-ba...jsvtbpofe7zkj1
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:07 PM   #47
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Hold on a minute . I think somewhere in all the other mumbo-jumbo of this post the original post got overlooked. If what dewey is saying here is true (and I think it is), then the OP is incorrect about the cost of the "Senior pass" going up. Sounds to me like it's staying at 10 bucks. No?
I think you misinterpreted my post. I never said the Senior pass may not be going up. I was responding to someone who asked if there is any difference in benefits between the Annual Pass and the Senior Pass. There most definitely is a difference in benefits.

I did not say that there weren't discussions and bills seeking to increase the cost of the Senior Pass. There ARE.

As others have said, if you already have your senior pass, you are good to go, as they are good for as long as you are alive.

If you don't have one yet, but you are already 62 years old, it would behoove you to get one soon, as they MAY go up in price in the near future.

If you aren't yet 62 years old, you just have to wait...and by the time you qualify, they MAY still be $10 or they MAY be $80 or they may be some other amount.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:18 PM   #48
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A good article on the budget shortfall that is affecting the NPS from doing the job they have been charged to do.

https://www.npca.org/articles/832-ba...jsvtbpofe7zkj1
That was an interesting article. But there was one sentence in it that I find VERY difficult to believe.

"Nine out of ten Americans has visited a national park"

That is an incredible claim.
Given that there are 324 million Americans, that means that 292 million of those folks have visited a national park. Given the number of people that are poor, have little to no transportation, live hundreds of miles from a national park, or just don't have an interest in the outdoors, I just can't believe that figure.

But I do understand how someone can juggle the numbers to come up with such an assumption. Many people NEVER visit a national park in their entire lives (my parents never did, none of my wife's 3 siblings nor their many children have). But some of us (like many of us on this forum) have visited many, many national parks and will continue to do so as long as we are able. So if you take the number of "visits" to national parks and compare them against the population, you can come up with the 90% number.

But again, I find it highly unlikely that 9 out of 10 people in this country have been to a national park, or national seashore, or national lakeshore, or national monument or national battlefield, or the myriad other places the NPS manages.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:30 PM   #49
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That was an interesting article. But there was one sentence in it that I find VERY difficult to believe.

"Nine out of ten Americans has visited a national park"

That is an incredible claim.
Given that there are 324 million Americans, that means that 292 million of those folks have visited a national park. ...snip
It's a good thing the total number of visitors didn't equal (or exceed) 324 million! Would they say that EVERY citizen visited a national park?
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:45 PM   #50
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It's a good thing the total number of visitors didn't equal (or exceed) 324 million! Would they say that EVERY citizen visited a national park?
Close - National Park Service Certifies 2015 Visitation at 307 Million.
Link here: https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/news/release.htm?id=1784

But this figure also includes visitation such as 15 million people driving the Blue Ridge Parkway and another 7 million driving the George Washington Parkway.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:20 PM   #51
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In looking at the numbers I also think you have to factor in school field trips.

There are National Parks in more places than you would think - especially in the East. Visit the NPS website and look at the list.
There is even a national park (It's a minute man missle silo) in the middle of nowhere in South Dakota.

For example, I can assure you that pretty much every student in the north half of Georgia has visited the Martin Luther King National Park in downtown Atlanta at least once before they graduate from High School. When I taught at Georgia State University I drove through that area every day - and never a weekday went buy when there weren't lines of yellow school buses out front all day long.

Probably EVERY student in EVERY major population center in the U.S. visits at least one National Park before the graduate. Most of those won't have a campground, many are urban, or forts, or battlegrounds, or native american sites.

I think I would buy the 9 out of 10 number.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:35 PM   #52
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I agree with Buddy Ray. The National Parks System is so much more than just the big, well publicized parks. I'd be willing to bet that there are very few people in the US who live more than 150 miles from the nearest site administered by the NPS. The biggest area that is lacking in such sites appears to be in Texas, west from Dallas - Fort Worth to near the New Mexico border.
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:00 AM   #53
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I think you misinterpreted my post.
Yea, probably did. I also screwed up when I said "mumbo-jumbo of this post" when I should have said mumbo-jumbo of this THREAD. Man! I hate it when I'm wrong!
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:16 AM   #54
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I worked as a Park Ranger for the NPS.
I am quite familiar with all the historic sites, battlefields, monuments, etc. We called them the "cannonball circuit." And I also worked at one of the NPS sites that was approximately 50 miles outside of a very major metropolitan area of nearly 9 million people. There is no other NPS administered site within 200 miles.

Yes, we had school programs that came to the park, and I was actively involved in the school program. But visitation by schools was nowhere near the level that has been described above. And we frequently visited schools to do programs, but I don't consider a visit from an NPS ranger as having visited a National Park.

I still do not believe the 90% figure.
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:42 AM   #55
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Yeah, especially if you live out here in God's Country. There are so many national parks and monuments to visit out here that it's almost a necessity. It doesn't take long to get your money's worth out of it. But $10 always beats $80.

Most of the time I don't really have a problem with paying a entrance fee just to help support the park (I spent many weekends hiking in Rocky Mountain NP back in the 80's before I met my wife to be, and paid the $10 regular entry fee each time (it changed at some time during that period, but that's the number I have in my head), but I will often just drive through for the heck of it on my way to some other destination. Rocky Mountain NP is on a direct line from here to my sister's home - there are faster routes, but none more scenic. I have also driven from Cody WY over the Beartooth highway and through Yellowstone and Grand Teton without spending any real time in either on my way to my brother's home in SE Idaho.

The National Parks are truly a national treasure, and easily worth the fees that they charge, whether you qualify for the senior pass or not.
I couldn't agree more.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:36 PM   #56
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BTW, it has now become law. The president signed H.R. 4680 on Friday. Only question remaining is how fast it will be implemented.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:05 AM   #57
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I start a 3 month host position January 1 at a COE Campground where they sell the passes. I guess I may find out when this goes into effect in a couple of weeks.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:33 AM   #58
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Several years ago my wife, Peggy, got her Senior Pass. She paid $10.00 for her lifetime. I never thought much about it because we have been making good use of hers but then we decided it wouldn't hurt for me to have one also just in case. Took a ride to the nearest Forestry office last week but when I showed him my ID, he said he couldn't sell me one. After we both asked why, we got a good laugh. He actually gave me an all Access Pass because I have a service-connected disability. This is a free lifetime pass with all the benefits of a senior pass and a few more. So if you have a VA ID card it would be a good idea to show it when you buy your pass. Pleasantly surprised with something I was not aware of.




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Old 12-20-2016, 01:54 PM   #59
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Currently if you lose your Senior Pass you can't replace it. You have to buy a new one.

I wonder if this policy will change with the escalation of fees?

If not guard it as a credit card.
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Old 12-25-2016, 11:18 AM   #60
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I am not quite eligible to purchase this pass, but I do purchase an annual pass every year ($80) to support our National Parks. To me, its not about the "value" I get, but to support our National Parks, of which I have travelled to extensively. Even in years when I know I may not get my money's worth, I know the parks need my money for support. It seems that $10 was always a great deal for the lifetime pass, but I will not mind paying the $80 when I turn 65. Funding for our National Parks comes from many sources and to me its a bargain even at this new price increase.
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