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Old 07-09-2015, 04:34 PM   #1
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10,000 lb GVWR

Sorry if I have missed this post previously.

I am shopping for a TV upgrade. I'm considering upgrading to a 5th wheel as well. Kinda tried of trying to balance travel trailer weight and cargo from my family on the half ton frame I currently have.

I'm a little confused on my upgrade options. I shopped the F250 (as I see a lot of these pulling big rigs down the road around here). I was kinda surprised to see the cargo capacity of three F250's I looked at was 2,000 lbs (per the door sticker). These were diesel motors with 4wd and were higher trim levels (king ranch, lariat, platinum) and I get that those options take away from the vehicle payload.

I see a lot of 1 ton trucks with no more payload than the 3/4 ton models.

I've read on this form, and been party to posts about folks looking at larger trailers than their half ton truck is really rated to pull (payload wise). The general consensus is to upgrade to a heavy duty truck as the weight from the trailer tongue often puts the half ton frame over the GVWR, or select a smaller trailer that fits their TV GVWR.

I have a family of 5 and if we are looking to slide into a 5th wheel, I'm thinking we need to be looking for a TV with at least 3,500 lb cargo. My family of 5 is about 550 lbs and growing. 5th wheel pin weight could easily be 2,500 - 3,000 lbs. So I guess I should be looking for a TV with a cargo sticker around 3,000 lbs.

What I'm trying to reconcile is; All these SRW HD trucks have a 10,000 lb GVWR. Payloads range in the 2,000 - 3,000 range. I see the crew cab high trim level diesel 4wd trucks hauling the big 5th wheels down the road. But to get a truck with 3,000 lb + available payload, you pretty much need to be a single cab 2wd or a DRW set up, and or gas engine.

It seems exceeding the GVWR in a half ton is a big no no and dangerous. But exceeding the GVWR in an HD pick up is more accepted.?

I've read the 10,000 lb GVWR is a marketing deal to help folks from a tax purpose perspective, or regulatory thing. So the belief is that a HD truck with a GVWR of 10,000 lb can really perform in excess of that, but it's rated lower to avoid possible regulation or taxes. I may not be communicating that very well, so I apologize if I'm way off.

I've read where it's okay to exceed the GVWR, just don't exceed the axle rating. And it does seem that most trucks have a lower GVWR than the sum of the two axle ratings.

My TV doubles as my daily commuter, so I don't want the DRW. There are 5 of us so I need the crew cab. I want to keep the 4wd.

I guess I wanted to see if anyone else out there has a solution, or is over weight and happy with it.?

Thanks for any feedback.
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Old 07-09-2015, 04:59 PM   #2
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I foresee a lot of investigation and reading will come your way ..... here's why i say this. I have a 2015 ford F250 lariat (4x2) and I can tow about 14k in conventional towing (bumper pull) and about 16.3k in a 5th wheel configuration. (from the ford website) This is the weight of the trailer by itself.

Looks to me that you are referring to the vertical load on the bed and that will be 3/4 ton truck should carry 1500lbs and a one ton 2000lbs on the bed. Usually those numbers account for 5 adults (maximum capacity) . So can you carry 5 adults and a 5th wheel that say weights 10k pounds and has a hitch (pin) weight of 1000 lbs ?... YES. All withing the limits of the truck. Why .. I am not exceeding the vertical weight for my cargo bed where the pin (hitch) is connected or the pulling weight.

Lost of information out there ..... I hope I was able to make it easier for you

P
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:43 PM   #3
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It is not more acceptable to exceed the limits with a 2500/250 or 3500/350 than it is with a 1500/150 class truck. I think many folks believe that they have a HD truck and no longer have to think about limits, but as you can see those limits are just as easy to exceed in a HD tuck as they are in 1500/150 class truck.

My 2007.5 LMM Duramax has an average trim package, certainly not luxury, and has 2351 Lbs of cargo. Should I have got the same truck in gasser, the cargo would have have been 3k lbs +. The diesel and 4x4 really affect cargo weight.

Its a series of compromises to get the right combination of TV and TT/5R. You have to balance the pulling power of diesel vs gas and the affect it has on GVWR. Same for the TT/5R you want -- maybe 3000 lbs pin weight isn't an option for you if you need to stay in a particular TV. You could accept a DRW as a daily driver -- or possible buy another $3-$4k "beater as you daily driver". There are lots of options -- however IMO none are to exceed the limits of you vehicle.

Most of my camping friends and I no longer use our trucks as daily drivers. We have each purchased very low cost, $2000-$3000, used sedans for daily communters. Our fleet of "beaters" have almost become joke around town.
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:59 PM   #4
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Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn here. Max towing 17,000. Max GCWR 25,000. Max payload 4,070. Max GVWR 11,700. Truck weighs empty just a touch over 8,000 with the fifth wheel hitch.

Mine has the Cummins 6.7 TD with the Aisin transmission with a 3:46 rear end.

We pull a 2014 351 RSTS max at 15,500 (heaviest we have seen at the scale is around 14,500) and have always been legal.
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Old 07-09-2015, 06:59 PM   #5
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I get a little "over" about weights, but this link has my weight analysis spreadsheets. https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...ets-28187.html
Hope this helps.
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Old 07-09-2015, 07:21 PM   #6
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Recently I ran over a CAT scale with my 2500HD pulling the 32BHDS. I found the gross combination over weight by 820 pounds. The gear, food, and passengers I think put me over.

I'm in the process of weeding out excessive gear from the trailer.

I am concerned but not scared. I do not believe in the arbitrary "80%" rule. General Motors placed a GCVWR on me, and I intend to use every pound!
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:01 PM   #7
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hboy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by hboy View Post
snip......It seems exceeding the GVWR in a half ton is a big no no and dangerous. But exceeding the GVWR in an HD pick up is more accepted.?
I would disagree. Exceeding a manufacture's specified GVWR in any size vehicle is considered over weight as defined by the manufacture's vehicle design criteria (Engine, Transmission, Axles, Brakes, and Frame) for that specific vehicle model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hboy View Post
snip...... I've read where it's okay to exceed the GVWR, just don't exceed the axle rating. And it does seem that most trucks have a lower GVWR than the sum of the two axle ratings.
I would disagree about exceeding the GVWR, but agree about not exceeding an "individual" axle GAWR. The sum of one's TV's "actual" CAT scaled axle weights should not exceed your GVWR. Yes, in most cases the TV manufacture's specified F/R GAWR's when combined do in many cases exceed the manufacture's specified GVWR, it just means that the F/R axles have their "individual" weight limits and respective load considerations.

Bob
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:09 PM   #8
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I am sure I will get crucified for this but I really get a kick out of the weight/load limit threads. Growing up on a farm in a rural farming community I guarantee you every farmer around grossly overloaded their trucks on a very regular basis and would work their trucks hard every day and still drive them until they had 200,000 miles on them.

People would totally flip out if they saw some of the loads that were pulled around here by 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks!

That being said I also like to overkill my tow vehicle just for good insurance but I can guarantee you i wouldn't be getting worked up about being at my max or slightly over. For years I have routinely hauled beds full of firewood that would put me over my max payload and still have 140,000 trouble free miles on my truck with mild performance mods to the tranny and motor. The other thing that cracks me up is the fact I have the same axle, same brakes, and same frame as the 3500 Cummins but yet I am rated for lower weights. I ended up adding the extra leaf spring to my badged 2500 and now I don't have to pay the increased tag price of a one ton.

I am by no means saying I think people should pull more than their truck is rated for I am just saying I don't get nearly as worked up about it as a lot of people.

If it was me and I was going for a fifth wheel I wouldn't even consider a truck unless it was a 1 ton dually.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:10 PM   #9
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Thanks to all. I appreciate you sharing!
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Old 07-11-2015, 11:41 AM   #10
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Look at a RAM. My payload capacity is just shy of 2800 lbs on my 2500.
A farm truck is a different scenario. You're usually on the farm or going down a farm to market slowly. Very different than screaming down the interstate at 65mph.
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