222 Roof Membrane Taking In Air

Riich · 06-24-2021, 08:14 AM

Well, after a couple of years of ownership I'm finally having my first issue and looking for some ideas on how to fix an issue that just cropped up with my travel trailer.

While driving down the road I noticed that my roof membrane (rubber roofing) is lifting about 2" in the front left part of my 2016 Octane 222SL. It appears to be from the left edge of the trailer and puffs up over to about the center. There is no way to see how far back it puffs up, and I can't convince my wife to ride on the roof for a few miles to investigate. Lol.

I know this is a bad problem and I am 500 miles from home so I hope to resolve this before getting back on the road on Sunday. I crawled on the roof at one of our stops and cannot see where air is getting in. Literally, the seams appear fine and I don't see any other reason for this issue. I looked over the whole roof and things look great. I would assume it has to be air getting under the membrane.

I did cover the front seam with duct tape from one side to the other, and it is sealed well, just to see if that would alleviate the problem and get me by, but after getting back on the road and within a few miles it was swelled up again. As you slow down to 25 to go through small towns it settles right back down.

I'm looking for ideas! I am stumped. And I'm worried that leaving it as is for my 500 miles trek home could result in a much bigger issue to deal with. This camper has been great and problem free up until this point and I'm not about to pawn it off on some unsuspecting person and then have to replace it. I want to own it long term.

Any ideas?? My wife thinks we should swing into an RV dealer on the road and see if they can fix it, my thought is they will send a 25 year old kid on the roof with no better idea of what is wrong than me. I'm fully capable of fixing an issue, I just need to know where to start.

Thank you.

Grumpy · 06-24-2021, 08:53 AM

Air may not be getting under, it may be an airplane effect where vacuum is lifting it up.. Probably needs to be reglued.

Riich · 06-24-2021, 02:15 PM

Would it look puffed up like it is pressured up with air?

And what does the re-glueing process consist of? Just a small portion or the whole roof?

Radar57 · 06-26-2021, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Air may not be getting under, it may be an airplane effect where vacuum is lifting it up.. Probably needs to be reglued.

X2. As the air flows over the top of the camper the speed of that flow increases. The result is a decrease in pressure. As Grumpy referenced this is what produces lift on an aircraft and allows it to fly. Look up Bernoulli's principle for flight. This will cause the roof material to bubble. The way to fix it is not an easy one. The best fix is to peel it back and reglue it.

craigav · 06-26-2021, 09:23 AM

If you go by the airplane wing lift effect thought (which certainly could be the case), then just as with an airplane wing you could try lowering the front of the RV to reduce the lift, especially if your RV is higher in the front than in the rear. Without seeing a picture of your setup it is hard to know if lowering the hitch a notch (or link, setting, etc) would be appropriate or not, although even without seeing it, I can say that the RV roof and trailer underside should be very close to level while traveling (connected and on a flat road) and not lifted in the front. If yours isn't level when hooked up to the TV then I would consider re-adjusting the hitch height if you can, and perhaps add a slight bias downward in the front (but only slightly, in other words have a level frame and roof line with perhaps a very little downward angle towards the front). ~CA

Radar57 · 06-26-2021, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigav

If you go by the airplane wing lift effect thought (which certainly could be the case), then just as with an airplane wing you could try lowering the front of the RV to reduce the lift, especially if your RV is higher in the front than in the rear. Without seeing a picture of your setup it is hard to know if lowering the hitch a notch (or link, setting, etc) would be appropriate or not, although even without seeing it, I can say that the RV roof and trailer underside should be very close to level while traveling (connected and on a flat road) and not lifted in the front. If yours isn't level when hooked up to the TV then I would consider re-adjusting the hitch height if you can, and perhaps add a slight bias downward in the front (but only slightly, in other words have a level frame and roof line with perhaps a very little downward angle towards the front). ~CA

The above is a good thought but even when you change the angle of attack on an airplane wing to make it climb or dive there still is lift (low pressure area) on the upper surface of the wing. It is only when the angle attack of the leading edge of the wing is raised to the point there is enough air flow disturbance and lift is lost (wing stall).

Enough on that subject, thus is a RV forum and not flight theory. It don't belive you can change the setup so much to impact the natural phenomenon that is occurring. Sometimes you have to bit the proverbial bullet and fix the problem. It is likely not going go get any better. My thought to the OP is to contact a certified RV tech and solicit their advice.

craigav · 06-26-2021, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar57

The above is a good thought but even when you change the angle of attack on an airplane wing to make it climb or dive there still is lift (low pressure area) on the upper surface of the wing. It is only when the angle attack of the leading edge of the wing is raised to the point there is enough air flow disturbance and lift is lost (wing stall).

Enough on that subject, thus is a RV forum and not flight theory. It don't belive you can change the setup so much to impact the natural phenomenon that is occurring. Sometimes you have to bit the proverbial bullet and fix the problem. It is likely not going go get any better. My thought to the OP is to contact a certified RV tech and solicit their advice.

I agree that the OP should contact a certified tech and correct the issue when able to do so, however that may not be easy to do while 500 miles away from home and traveling.

That being said, an RV is not shaped like a wing (some are similar though with curved higher front areas, especially 5th wheels) and is more shaped like that of a box with many RV roofs having a flat roof line, so being similar to fluid dynamics as well as aero dynamics the lifting effect would not be present with a flat roof line angled downward into the wind. A picture of the OP's setup would help to know if this could be the case and if lowering the front would help, and I wouldn't suggest this as anything other than a something to try (lowering the front of the RV especially if the roof is flat and setup higher in the front of the RV) until an appropriate inspection and if needed repairs can be made. ~CA

Riich · 06-26-2021, 01:55 PM

So here is the shape of my camper, the front roofline tapers downward. The only part lifting is the front left section ahead of the roofline that levels out. My rig is level while towing.

I may have found the issue but I won't elaborate until I pull tomorrow and confirm. I'm very tied up at the moment and will most definitely follow up later.

Thanks for the ideas so far, I may need them yet.

Riich · 06-27-2021, 09:30 PM

Well, I just returned from the BMWMOA National Rally in Great Falls, MT and I'm still having the issue. I thought I had found a culprit and I was giddy to get on the road to see if I had solved the issue. On the front left corner on the downspout some filler (caulk) was missing and there was an opening looking right into the rail that runs the length of the camper holding the roof membrane on.

I notice now that there are a couple small gaps where caulking is missing about a foot behind the downspout on the bottom side of the rail. Wouldn't this let air get up under the membrane?

I'm just glad to be home where I have the proper time and equipment to look into this issue further. Maybe I can post some pictures in the next day or two.

**JFlightRisk** · 06-27-2021, 09:41 PM

It's possible, and the gaps should be sealed to keep water out, but I'm thinking it's not glued down in that area, and you're getting the wing "lift" effect.

You can definitely start with any seam gaps you notice up there. I always start with the easiest fixes first.

Route 66 Traveler · 06-28-2021, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFlightRisk

but I'm thinking it's not glued down in that area, and you're getting the wing "lift" effect.

That's exactly the problem. I've seen that time and time again with trailers going in the opposite direction on the Interstate, mostly 5th wheels. If you get up on the roof wash it using a brush you will probably notice how loose the roofing material is, or wrap some duct tape around your hand and stick it to the roof and see if you can lift up the roofing material.

I had a similar problem with a Class A years ago. They wanted to inject adhesive through the material and try and re-glue it. That didn't work and the whole roof was replaced at a cost of $8000. That was 18 years ago so a roof replacement today will probably cost a lot more.

TWP723 · 06-28-2021, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar57

The above is a good thought but even when you change the angle of attack on an airplane wing to make it climb or dive there still is lift (low pressure area) on the upper surface of the wing. It is only when the angle attack of the leading edge of the wing is raised to the point there is enough air flow disturbance and lift is lost (wing stall).

Enough on that subject, thus is a RV forum and not flight theory. It don't believe you can change the setup so much to impact the natural phenomenon that is occurring. Sometimes you have to bite the proverbial bullet and fix the problem. It is likely not going go get any better. My thought to the OP is to contact a certified RV tech and solicit their advice.

Oh heck no...we can talk planes. Matter of fact, I belong to a couple forums (haven't visited lately) on piloting and aircraft. My son and I are getting ready to build a ELSA.

EvilDoer · 06-28-2021, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riich

On the front left corner on the downspout some filler (caulk) was missing and there was an opening looking right into the rail that runs the length of the camper holding the roof membrane on.

I notice now that there are a couple small gaps where caulking is missing about a foot behind the downspout on the bottom side of the rail. Wouldn't this let air get up under the membrane?

You may we'll have found the "cause", but you still have to deal with the "effect".
The roof membrane is no longer glued down. No amount of tape, or caulk, or other seals will change that. The loose section of membrane needs to be glued down. The only question left is can that section be repaired, or does the whole thing need to be replaced?

Radar57 · 06-29-2021, 06:25 PM

I watch a RV Tech on YouTube, AZ Expert. Below is a video of a repair he did on a rubber roof, probably EDPM, that was not glued down properly. It will give you a good idea what probably needs to be done to glue your roof material to the decking. He does a lot of roof inspections on TT, 5er's and MH in some of his later videos. Interesting videos.

https://youtu.be/zh39X5c4vAg

**norty1** · 06-29-2021, 07:20 PM

We were in a Cg years ago and a fifth wheel came in with the front 4 or 5 feet billowing. They called a mobile repair and the removed the front seal and the side seals back to where it was glued. They reglued it and replaced the trim and put Eternabond across the front and they were back on the road the next morning.

Riich · 06-30-2021, 06:01 AM

I spoke with a local Jayco shop foreman and he has me scheduled for a July 22nd repair. They will roll back the top a couple of feet and re-glue. He said this is a common issue and after speaking with him I felt it will be the proper fix. They will then make sure all seams are leak free and I will be good to go.

It was interesting, yesterday going down I-94 I looked across the median and a fifth wheel unit had the same issue, about a foot of the front of the roof was puffed up. I bet the driver has no clue he has an issue since it looked to be behind what he was probably able to see. I wonder how many others have this issue with no knowledge it is happening to them until it is beyond a simple repair.

I'll post after my repair is complete. Thanks for all the advice.

TCNashville · 06-30-2021, 08:26 AM

If it were mine and I was out of warranty, I'd slice the membrane open at the center part of the billowing, glue it down and cover the slice with Eternabond.

kirkelli · 07-03-2021, 01:02 PM

get up there with a shop vac and see where it is lifting. I had similar issues except in my caee i can see the bubbling.. I had mine into the dealer under warranty twice and they said they claim this is normal. I dont see it getting any worse but i am concerned. Really irritating the dealers blow this off.

Bill Johnson · 07-03-2021, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riich

I spoke with a local Jayco shop foreman and he has me scheduled for a July 22nd repair. They will roll back the top a couple of feet and re-glue. He said this is a common issue and after speaking with him I felt it will be the proper fix. They will then make sure all seams are leak free and I will be good to go.

It was interesting, yesterday going down I-94 I looked across the median and a fifth wheel unit had the same issue, about a foot of the front of the roof was puffed up. I bet the driver has no clue he has an issue since it looked to be behind what he was probably able to see. I wonder how many others have this issue with no knowledge it is happening to them until it is beyond a simple repair.

I'll post after my repair is complete. Thanks for all the advice.

Wonder if at the campground you could borrow a leaf blower and check it yourself

Riich · 07-03-2021, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkelli

get up there with a shop vac and see where it is lifting. I had similar issues except in my caee i can see the bubbling..

I don't see any bubbling, in fact the roof looks nice and snug looking at it. Someone above mentioned using duct tape to see where it lifts so I tried that little trick (ingenious) and it only lifts near the front edge. If I move back a couple of feet it appears fine. The repair shop guy built up my confidence 100% when he told me what he is going to do with it. When I asked how much this may run he mentioned he had just done one a couple of weeks ago and he looked up the invoice on the job and it was $380. Hell yeah, I'm tickled.I had no plans to use the camper in the next couple of weeks so the repair date works perfectly for me. I was surprised I'm getting in that soon. I'm looking forward to it.

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