$26,000 just for the battery.....plus labor and taxes

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by billcf7

a battery in a f150 lightning weighs 6590 lbs

Amazon XL warehouses and Nebraska Furniture Mart here in North Texas don't ever recharge batteries in stand up forklifts, reach trucks, order pickers, tuggers and etc. while they're in the machines, they slide the discharged battery out, slide a fresh battery in and then send the discharged battery up an automated lift to be recharged. In fact the entire operation is 90% automated. Facilities that operate 24/7 don't have time to idle machines waiting for batteries to charge.

[TWP723]

Just looked up several other "electric only" vehicle parts. The new Lightning is incredibly heavy. It has the 2300lb. battery, three convertors, an array of other batteries and chargers and the list goes on. BTW, the gas and electric company here uses a couple of them. One was brand new and fully charged. Made it to Hanover, Pa. from Baltimore and quit. About 50 miles. They regret buying them .

[SmokerBill]

Maybe charging from the road surface as you travel is in the future.
https://phys.org/news/2012-07-japan-...ricity-ev.html

[craigav]

Originally Posted by SmokerBill

Maybe charging from the road surface as you travel is in the future.
https://phys.org/news/2012-07-japan-...ricity-ev.html

Perhaps with some slots in the road as well.

[Onyrlef]

Some of these comments are like that Larry David commercial for crypto, some guy says "I call it the wheel" and as they're dragging those huge stones to build the pyramids behind them, Larry goes, "Nah, I don't think so". In the early 19th century the Luddites who were weavers rioted and burned down the houses where factory workers were making cloth on looms. To this day they call those who scoff or ridicule efforts at progress or change "luddites".

[SmokerBill]

Originally Posted by craigav

Perhaps with some slots in the road as well.

Slot cars! That's the solution!

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by SmokerBill

Maybe charging from the road surface as you travel is in the future.
https://phys.org/news/2012-07-japan-...ricity-ev.html

When I'm finally forced to buy an EV, I intend to put a couple windmills on the roof. I'll probably have to make the garage door higher tough.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by craigav

Yes, indeed they are heavy. Maybe one day they will come up with a liquid that will have a lot more power potential than batteries and can be easily pumped into a vehicle...

Are you thinking like the rest of us are thinking... something with 124884.3 BTU's of energy per gallon?

[craigav]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Are you thinking like the rest of us are thinking... something with 124884.3 BTU's of energy per gallon?

That sounds perfect, and perhaps a similar liquid with even more BTU's for our bigger RV's and trucks. lol

[Onyrlef]

Wouldn't celebrating the obvious btu potential in a gallon of gas without comparing the energy output in a gallon of gas with that of an equivalent meaure of kw's be a non sequitur, affirming the consequent? If I were going to make an argument I'd begin with pointing out that as it is the cost for a kw of energy is relatively low and therefore quite attractive, however if as proposed by California to phase out the sale of new vehicles with i.c.e.'s by 2035, where is the revenue to build and maintain roads and bridges going to come from? The answer is likely by raising the price of electricity by adding those taxes which were beforehand derived from the sale of gas and diesel fuel. As it is ev's are using the roads and bridges being funded by taxes they don't pay.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

Wouldn't celebrating the obvious btu potential in a gallon of gas without comparing the energy output in a gallon of gas with that of an equivalent meaure of kw's be a non sequitur, affirming the consequent? If I were going to make an argument I'd begin with pointing out that as it is the cost for a kw of energy is relatively low and therefore quite attractive,

I wonder if you aren't missing the point?

An EV battery (even the biggest you can find) stores how many BTU's of energy? The Ford Lightning at the reported 125Kwh total storage comes to 426,517 BTU at total discharge. You cant use the entire 426,500BTU.

Compare that to the energy in one gallon of gas 124,884 BTU

Compare the two in terms of total energy storage, in a vehicle that must store the energy within the vehicle to make it function. The Battery storage of the Lightning equals about 3.4 gallons of gasoline.

The lighting battery weighs about 1,800 Lbs (Empty or Full) - and compare that to three gallons of gas at 18 LBS. Add another 30# for the tank and you have about 50# of weight to really compare. The Ford tank is 36 gallons in size, capable of storing about 10-times the amount of energy as the electric version.

It is all about:
* Storing enough energy to get the vehicle to travel far enough to reach it's destination.
* The weight required to store that energy.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

Amazon XL warehouses and Nebraska Furniture Mart here in North Texas don't ever recharge batteries in stand up forklifts, reach trucks, order pickers, tuggers and etc. while they're in the machines, they slide the discharged battery out, slide a fresh battery in and then send the discharged battery up an automated lift to be recharged. In fact the entire operation is 90% automated. Facilities that operate 24/7 don't have time to idle machines waiting for batteries to charge.

Actually, Distribution centers have been doing this since the 80's.

The operator brings the discharged Fork/Barret into the electric shop and picks up a fully charged unit and continues to work... The electric shop attendant does the battery swap, and other relative maintenance the equipment requires. When an order selector comes in for lunch, their transporter will park in a charging stall and charge while it is idle, The electric shop can't swap out 300+ batteries in that short of time.

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Actually, Distribution centers have been doing this since the 80's.

The operator brings the discharged Fork/Barret into the electric shop and picks up a fully charged unit and continues to work... The electric shop attendant does the battery swap, and other relative maintenance the equipment requires. When an order selector comes in for lunch, their transporter will park in a charging stall and charge while it is idle, The electric shop can't swap out 300+ batteries in that short of time.

Who's talking about maintenance, point was, a battery can be mechanically removed and a fresh battery installed mechanically and in a relatively short amount of time. I kinda know, I worked there and witnessed the operation.

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I wonder if you aren't missing the point?

An EV battery (even the biggest you can find) stores how many BTU's of energy? The Ford Lightning at the reported 125Kwh total storage comes to 426,517 BTU at total discharge. You cant use the entire 426,500BTU.

Compare that to the energy in one gallon of gas 124,884 BTU

Compare the two in terms of total energy storage, in a vehicle that must store the energy within the vehicle to make it function. The Battery storage of the Lightning equals about 3.4 gallons of gasoline.

The lighting battery weighs about 1,800 Lbs (Empty or Full) - and compare that to three gallons of gas at 18 LBS. Add another 30# for the tank and you have about 50# of weight to really compare. The Ford tank is 36 gallons in size, capable of storing about 10-times the amount of energy as the electric version.

It is all about:
* Storing enough energy to get the vehicle to travel far enough to reach it's destination.
* The weight required to store that energy.

Except you left out the critical fact that only 17-21% of the energy in a gallon of gas goes to propelling the vehicle down the road, an ev converts 59-62% of electrical energy from the grid to turning the wheels. Having x number of btu's is one thing, losing the overwhelming majority of those btu's in the combustion process is quite another. An ev is therefore 3 times as efficient in use of available energy. In the early 20th century a a horse could travel further in a day than the first generation of automobiles.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

Except you left out the critical fact that only 17-21% of the energy in a gallon of gas goes to propelling the vehicle down the road, an ev converts 59-62% of electrical energy from the grid to turning the wheels. Having x number of btu's is one thing, losing the overwhelming majority of those btu's in the combustion process is quite another. An ev is therefore 3 times as efficient in use of available energy. In the early 20th century a a horse could travel further in a day than the first generation of automobiles.

Does your 59-62% number include the energy losses that occur when generating and distributing electricity that the EV will use to charge its batteries? You wouldn't leave out a critical fact like that would you?

My thought would be that you have to start with an even playing field, lets say 5 gallons of gasoline where you have an ice and an ev F150 truck, and lets say that the ev truck uses a gas generator to charge the ev batteries. In such a case, which vehicle will travel farther and for a bonus, how much farther?

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by craigav

Does your 59-62% number include the energy losses that occur when generating and distributing electricity that the EV will use to charge its batteries? You wouldn't leave out a critical fact like that would you?

My thought would be that you have to start with an even playing field, lets say 5 gallons of gasoline where you have an ice and an ev F150 truck, and lets say that the ev truck uses a gas generator to charge the ev batteries. In such a case, which vehicle will travel farther and for a bonus, how much farther?

You're arguing with your own premise, who ever made any assertion a vehicle with ice doesn't have greater range? The fact that an ev is more efficient at energy transfer is unarguable.

[billcf7]

When they stop using coal to build batteries and evs and produce electricity for charging you will see more people jump on the bandwagon

[Bill Johnson]

It had an 8 year/100,000 warranty on the battery

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I looked up the vin and it shows this car was in for service in 2019 with 96,000 miles. 29/10/19 FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM 96000,
Not sure if that recipe wasn't photoshoped

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

You're arguing with your own premise, who ever made any assertion a vehicle with ice doesn't have greater range? The fact that an ev is more efficient at energy transfer is unarguable, if you can read.

I am not arguing with anyone and certainly I can read. My question was "Does your 59-62% number include the energy losses that occur when generating and distributing electricity that the EV will use to charge its batteries? ? " and if you can't answer the question then why not just say so instead of being insulting? There is no need for you to insult me or anyone else here in the forums. Thanks ~CA