A/C off small generator with soft start - no go when its hot out

[DigitalFusion]

Hey all,

I recently installed a soft start from softstartrv into my 13.5K Domentic Brisk on our 2016 x19h to pair with a new Ryobi 1800/2300 genset with electric start. I tested the soft start with the genset at home when it was maybe 80-85* and it worked great! It started the AC off the genset, and even with the AC on max, the draw never went above about 1550w.

Yesterday the air temp was 98*. I fired up the genset, and turned the AC on low. It fired right up without issue was was blowing nice cold air. That didnt last. After about 2 mins the genset went into overload mode. Long story short, every time I would get the AC started, it would start around 1400w draw, slowly creep up into the 1900's, and after about 60-120 seconds or so, it would overload. Nothing else was running as I made sure the refer was on propane and I even shut off every breaker except the main and the AC.

From what I understand, the compressor will draw more watts with higher temps. The only reason I purchased the genset and soft start was to use on those days where its just too damned hot out! Is anyone else able to run a 13.5K off a small generator when its hot? Is there anything a person can do to optimize the efficiency?

I'm still within the 30 day return window for the Ryobi, and am very seriously considering returning it for a Honda EU2200i to see if the Honda would solve the issue because everyone tells me the Hondas are typically underrated for output. I LOVE the electric start option from the Ryobi Bluetooth app, and the shut down timer is amazing as well. Both things I would loose with the Honda.

[RAurand]

I am running a Micro-Air softstart. Using 2 YAMAHA EF2000ISV2 2000 WATT INVERTER GENERATORs. Most of the time I just run 1 generator unless I am running other electrical loads such as hot water heater, etc. Never had any problems yet.

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by DigitalFusion

Hey all,

I recently installed a soft start from softstartrv into my 13.5K Domentic Brisk on our 2016 x19h to pair with a new Ryobi 1800/2300 genset with electric start. I tested the soft start with the genset at home when it was maybe 80-85* and it worked great! It started the AC off the genset, and even with the AC on max, the draw never went above about 1550w.





I'm still within the 30 day return window for the Ryobi, and am very seriously considering returning it for a Honda EU2200i to see if the Honda would solve the issue because everyone tells me the Hondas are typically underrated for output. I LOVE the electric start option from the Ryobi Bluetooth app, and the shut down timer is amazing as well. Both things I would loose with the Honda.

I would return the Ryobi while you can. If it's not powering your AC correctly now, it probably never will. I don't have a 13500 AC, but a 15000. I measured 3450 starting watts and a hair over 1500 running. I would suggest a slightly larger generator. I see you have a soft start, so you have the first step done.

[DigitalFusion]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

I don't have a 13500 AC, but a 15000. I measured 3450 starting watts and a hair over 1500 running. I would suggest a slightly larger generator. I see you have a soft start, so you have the first step done.

Is it 1500 while running even in warmer (upper 90's) temps? Wondering if perhaps there is something off my my AC if it was pushing 2000 with the AC on low?

[craigav]

Just a thought to check and based on other recent postings by others. I would make sure that the generator doesn't have or doesn't use an "economy" setting as that may reduce the rpms and result in a bit less power output from the generator. Also, I would make sure that you don't have anything else turned on, such as the power converter in the RV. In fact, I would likely shut off all of the breakers except for the A/C, at least as a test. If you find that after doing this that the generator still is a bit underpowered then you really don't have an option except to use a more capable generator. Also, keep in mind that if you camp at higher elevations that your generator's output capacity will be diminished, likely not an issue in MN but certainly an issue when you get 4~5k' and higher in elevation. ~CA

[DigitalFusion]

Originally Posted by craigav

Just a thought to check and based on other recent postings by others. I would make sure that the generator doesn't have or doesn't use an "economy" setting as that may reduce the rpms and result in a bit less power output from the generator. Also, I would make sure that you don't have anything else turned on, such as the power converter in the RV. In fact, I would likely shut off all of the breakers except for the A/C, at least as a test. If you find that after doing this that the generator still is a bit underpowered then you really don't have an option except to use a more capable generator. Also, keep in mind that if you camp at higher elevations that your generator's output capacity will be diminished, likely not an issue in MN but certainly an issue when you get 4~5k' and higher in elevation. ~CA

I did turn off all the breakers besides the main and the AC. The genset has an "economy" mode (called auto-idle) which was off. I also did a lot of research before buying, and found numerous people who use this genset (some with, and some without elec start option) with 13.5K ACs without issue after installing the soft-start.

I am starting to wonder if:

1. If there is something off with my AC unit
2. if higher temps really increase running power by 500+ watts
3. all the reviews I found were never tested when it was nearly 100* out

I have one of those kill-a-watt things somewhere. Its supposed to be in the mid-90s later this week. I might have to run some more tests using that instead of the info from the Ryobi app.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by DigitalFusion

I did turn off all the breakers besides the main and the AC. The genset has an "economy" mode (called auto-idle) which was off. I also did a lot of research before buying, and found numerous people who use this genset (some with, and some without elec start option) with 13.5K ACs without issue after installing the soft-start.

I am starting to wonder if:

1. If there is something off with my AC unit
2. if higher temps really increase running power by 500+ watts
3. all the reviews I found were never tested when it was nearly 100* out

I have one of those kill-a-watt things somewhere. Its supposed to be in the mid-90s later this week. I might have to run some more tests using that instead of the info from the Ryobi app.

One other thing I didn't mention, but your comment reminded me to share this. In most cases this doesn't matter however when you are very close to having a generator's output match your needs, that not only will the A/C draw more current with higher temperatures, but that the generator's engine will have a little less power the hotter it gets, similar to higher altitude loss of power. I haven't tested the numbers to know how much loss there would be at say 100 degrees (+) vs 70, but I am sure that there is some loss of engine power due to the higher temps, and of course that doesn't work out well when you don't have any power to spare. ~CA

[kirkelli]

My 13.5 will draw 14-15 operating amps on a hot day when the compressor is working overtime. Factor in your charger and whatever else is running and you are maxing out your Generator. Also, some generators have a flunky ECO circuit that will not let your generators ramp up under load. Try turning your ECO mode off and see if that helps. I just installed two volt/amp/wattt meters to keep tabs ln current draw. I have a post on the install on the Jayco Mods/AC Multi Function Meter Install. - Good Luck

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...all-96240.html

[DigitalFusion]

14-15a is 1680 to 1800w, well within the range of 1800 continuous and 2300 surge of the genset I have. Mine was bumping up to the 2K (nearly 17a) mark on a hot day.

I genuinely appreciate all the responses and feedback, but I am starting to feel like I am repeating myself here. The "eco" mode was off. All of the breakers were shut off besides the AC.

I did another test today when the temp hit 86*F. It started with all the breakers on at about 1400w and it ran completely fine for nearly 20 mins before I shut it down, hitting a peak of 1650w and pretty much leveled out there, which is in line with what the Dometic documentation says is the running wattage of 1640w (about 14a) for the 13.5K Brisk II.

Bottom line seems to be that, at least in my case, the 1800/2300 Ryobi on a 13.5K with soft-start combo doesnt work when the temps are closing in on 100 degrees.

Now I guess I either need to decide between returning it for the Honda EU2200i which will not cut out until it surpasses 2000w/16.7a but will be humming along to do so, or converting to a 9-12K mini-split which draws 500-700w (4.2-5.8a) and keeping the Ryobi with all its bells and whistles via the app that will basically be idling based off the load tests I have ran.

[kirkelli]

Originally Posted by DigitalFusion

14-15a is 1680 to 1800w, well within the range of 1800 continuous and 2300 surge of the genset I have. Mine was bumping up to the 2K (nearly 17a) mark on a hot day.

I genuinely appreciate all the responses and feedback, but I am starting to feel like I am repeating myself here. The "eco" mode was off. All of the breakers were shut off besides the AC.

I did another test today when the temp hit 86*F. It started with all the breakers on at about 1400w and it ran completely fine for nearly 20 mins before I shut it down, hitting a peak of 1650w and pretty much leveled out there, which is in line with what the Dometic documentation says is the running wattage of 1640w (about 14a) for the 13.5K Brisk II.

Bottom line seems to be that, at least in my case, the 1800/2300 Ryobi on a 13.5K with soft-start combo doesnt work when the temps are closing in on 100 degrees.

Now I guess I either need to decide between returning it for the Honda EU2200i which will not cut out until it surpasses 2000w/16.7a but will be humming along to do so, or converting to a 9-12K mini-split which draws 500-700w (4.2-5.8a) and keeping the Ryobi with all its bells and whistles via the app that will basically be idling based off the load tests I have ran.

Sounds like you resolved your problem.. have fun!

[craigav]

Originally Posted by DigitalFusion

14-15a is 1680 to 1800w, well within the range of 1800 continuous and 2300 surge of the genset I have. Mine was bumping up to the 2K (nearly 17a) mark on a hot day. ...

Just for awareness as this information is helpful to know, it doesn't change the fact that you need more power or less load.

Watt is a Watt and to keep it simple, a watt doesn't completely represent the load on the generator as it depends on watt is pulling the watts. Anyway, to be brief, you have to consider what is known as the power factor which is 1 (or 1to1) with resistance loads (heaters for example), but is reduced with inductive loads. In this case with an A/C the power factor (pf) is commonly .9 which means that if a generator is providing power to an A/C that has a pf of .9 then the 1800w x .9 becomes 1620 watts. Therefore, the generator could run (assuming it can provide 1800w continuously) an 1800w heater, but only a 1620 A/C (with a .9 pf). ~CA

[DigitalFusion]

hmm... interesting.

I cannot find my kill-a-watt unit for the life of me, so I am relying on the Ryobi app to tell me what the load is. Not sure how accurate it is, but it was showing 1630-1650 when it leveled out yesterday, which using the .9 pf, I would be basically red-lining the genset?

From what I have seen from numerous videos is that the EU2200i will run 2000 to 2100w continuously without going into over load. Most of these tests were using space heaters and blow dryers to hit those numbers, which if I understand what you are saying correctly are going to be resistance-based loads.

When it was nearly 100* out, I was pulling 1950 and climbing when the genset would overload. Using the 2000-2100 of the Honda x .9 pf = 1800 to 1890w, so even the Honda might not run my AC when the temps get that high?

[craigav]

Originally Posted by DigitalFusion

hmm... interesting.

I cannot find my kill-a-watt unit for the life of me, so I am relying on the Ryobi app to tell me what the load is. Not sure how accurate it is, but it was showing 1630-1650 when it leveled out yesterday, which using the .9 pf, I would be basically red-lining the genset?

From what I have seen from numerous videos is that the EU2200i will run 2000 to 2100w continuously without going into over load. Most of these tests were using space heaters and blow dryers to hit those numbers, which if I understand what you are saying correctly are going to be resistance-based loads.

When it was nearly 100* out, I was pulling 1950 and climbing when the genset would overload. Using the 2000-2100 of the Honda x .9 pf = 1800 to 1890w, so even the Honda might not run my AC when the temps get that high?

Of the many related areas that I worked in my career (retired now), I never put a lot of time in determining the differences in manufacture ratings. With that and at a high level, when a manufacture rates something like a generator they often have in the specs somewhere a line that shows the output voltage along with (+or- 10%). The same is similar for an A/C where they list the watts of an A/C which is also a moving target based on the voltage, and other aspects of the A/C such as understanding they require more power the hotter it is.

In any case, you are correct, a generator (or inverter generator) with a rating of 2000w~2100w can only supply power to a A/C with a .9pf around 1800~1890 watts (after calculating in the pf). To make the "sizing" math even a bit more challenging, if a generator specifies that the output voltage is 120v +or- 10% and for a resistance load such as a heater, the wattage the heater pulls is proportionally less at the lower voltage, however this is not true with an inductive load (A/C) where as the wattage remains somewhat consistent through a range of voltages and as the voltage becomes decreased the amperage becomes increased. This is why under lower voltage scenarios a circuit breaker for something like an A/C may trip when it would not have at the higher voltage. Not too mention you can easily damage an inductive appliance (motorized, A/C's for a common example) when running at the lower voltage.

I have found that the reality is to only use the ratings provided for things like a generator and appliance as only a guideline and it would certainly be better to provide a level of overhead (say 10%) when sizing the generator (along with considering the load and using .9 pf in your sizing when sizing for an A/C).

With this said, certainly many people have reported no issues running their 13.5k A/C with a EU2200I (with a soft start installed in the A/C). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that if measured accurately, that a quality name brand such as Honda EU2200I would\could actually output more continuous power than an off-brand 2200w generator could produce. A lot of this variance is due to how a manufacture rates their products.

Keep in mind, my comments are at a high level, one could research the differences between "Real Power vs Apparent Power" along with "Resistance vs inductive" loads, as the understandings of how all this can be measured and the implications of the different loads becomes much more complex than my high level statements. ~CA

[DigitalFusion]

Everything you took the time to write out makes a lot of sense, thank you for taking the time.

I think I have two choices at this point:

1. Return the Ryobi and get the Honda EU2200i
2. Keep the Ryobi and convert to mini-split

The Honda will likely power our AC, but there is a chance that it might be over-worked on those super hot days, which seem to be happening more frequently lately. It will also be humming away when it is able to run the AC. Plus, its going to cost an extra $300 and the Bluetooth app does not have half the features that the Ryobi app has.

I could keep the Ryobi with all its bells and whistles, and get good mini-split with a decent SEER for about $900. A friend of mine put a 9K in his trailer and not only will his smaller Honda 2000 run it in eco-mode (its basically idling because the mini-split only draws about 500w) he can turn his trailer into an ice box regardless of outside temps. Plus, you can actually hold a conversation when the AC is on because it is whisper-quiet.

I've never much liked the look of having a mini-split compressor mounted to a camper, but the efficiency, and the ability to have the genset basically idling to run it is starting to out-weigh the cosmetic inconvenience. Sure, its an extra $600 more than getting the Honda (and its yet another project in my never ending list of them), but we could probably sell our roof-top unit and convert it into a maxx-air vent and recoup a little bit of the cost.

🤔 I have 13 more days left for my return window. Gonna have to ponder this one for a bit.

[craigav]

Personally speaking, I would go with the Honda EU2200i as a 9k btu vs 13.5k btu A/C is a decent size difference and while the 9k may be nice and cold, if you find yourself in even more demanding (hot) conditions, and assuming equivalent sized RV's, there will be a threshold where the 9k will no longer be able to keep the RV nice and cool as compared to what the 13.k btu can provide. ~CA

[Florida Ranger]

Just forget about the mini split and go to Harbor Frieght and get yourself a 3000 watt predator invertor generator that is half the price of a Honda and just as good with a better warranty ,,,,also you can get an extended warranty real cheap. You will find lots of the Predators at campgrounds in Florida….Lots of food trucks around here use them….

[Frosty42]

Originally Posted by Florida Ranger

Just forget about the mini split and go to Harbor Frieght and get yourself a 3000 watt predator invertor generator that is half the price of a Honda and just as good with a better warranty ,,,,also you can get an extended warranty real cheap. You will find lots of the Predators at campgrounds in Florida….Lots of food trucks around here use them….

X2 on this.. Hondas are over rated, over priced and not what they used to be. Lots of options with more running watts for lot less money. Onan, Generac, Westinghouse and Predators ate just a few....

[craigav]

Originally Posted by craigav

Personally speaking, I would go with the Honda EU2200i as a 9k btu vs 13.5k btu A/C is a decent size difference and while the 9k may be nice and cold, if you find yourself in even more demanding (hot) conditions, and assuming equivalent sized RV's, there will be a threshold where the 9k will no longer be able to keep the RV nice and cool as compared to what the 13.k btu can provide. ~CA

First time I have quoted myself

In any case, important update, I was thinking I wouldn't actually purchase any generator without first checking the specifications, and interesting enough the specs are that the EU2200I can only output 2200w as a max and is rated for 1800w. While I have read from some who have ran their A/C on the Honda 2200I, I would recommend an inverter generator that has more capacity. ~CA


Specifications
Full model nameEU2200ITAN (49 State), EU2200iTAG (California)
EngineHonda GXR120
Displacement121cc
AC Output120V 2200W max. (18.3A), 1800W rated (15A)

https://powerequipment.honda.com/gen...els/eu2200i#!#!

[John7349]

Cant go wrong with the Honda EU2200i and the easy start. I use mine on a 15K.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by John7349

Cant go wrong with the Honda EU2200i and the easy start. I use mine on a 15K.

I have read the same from others as well, what I suspect is that even though the EU2200i is rated for 1800w\2200w max, I suspect that it likely can run at a higher continuous output than the 1800w rating but not over 2200w. Other generators\inverters may not be able to exceed its continuous output rating for very long at all. ~CA