Cut Off Water to Your Home

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

We have hot water heat in our home. Excellent heating! It is a closed loop system, which means it recirclates the same water over and over. It does have a city water connection, to refill the system, if it is ever drained. If you have a small leak, you know as the pressure will drop over time, and you have to add a little water periodically.

Our 1964 house has a boiler for heat and domestic hot water. First winter (2008) had home heating fuel over $4 a gallon, which was exhorbitant at the time. Went through 800 gallons of oil that first winter. We had an older central AC system (not a heat pump). Did the math and figured a heat pump would pay for itself within a couple years if heating oil stayed at $4/gallon.

We installed the heat pump and a wood burning fireplace for heat, kept the boiler for backup heat and domestic hot water.

When heating oil was over $5/gallon this spring, we did the math and determined that a hybrid (heat pump) water heater would pay for itself in less than a year. Fuel prices are unlikely to trend downwards, but electricity is still less expensive until the government forces everyone to use electric EVERYTHING and lack of competition drives electric prices through the roof.

[CAG]

Originally Posted by spoon059

That's interesting, not sure why you would want it to maintain pressure, becuase it only needs to "maintain pressure" if there is a leak. I'd prefer to know there is a leak and have to find it when its only a 20-50 gallon system, rather than have it leaking and I never know until its flowing out of the wall.

That being said, my argument to whomever I originally replied is still the same. The water supply can be turned off without having any effect on the boiler heating system.

We get so complicated with a simple OP question. Let's see, what was that question??


And we were able to run this one on for three pages LOL.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by CAG

We get so complicated with a simple OP question. Let's see, what was that question??


And we were able to run this one on for three pages LOL.

Its called thread drift, it happens when people ask questions. Ever have a conversation with someone?

I answered the OPs questions and pointed out the flawed logic in the first response the OP received. Someone asked a question about my response, I answered that question.

Otherwise this forum would be a single question and either one answer or an echo chamber.

[us71na]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Kim... I'm fairly certain that your heating system is a closed loop, meaning that you only have 25 or so gallons of water in your boiler and radiators. That same water constantly recirculates throughout your system and doesn't change unless you manually drain and refill it.

Your domestic water supply, your drinking water, can be shut off at the main while you are gone and it should have no effect on the water that is contained within the closed system of your boiler.

If your house freezes and a pipe bursts but your domestic water is shut off, it will only drain the 25 gallons or so that is in your closed loop heating supply. That's unfortunate, but not awful.

If your house freezes and a pipe bursts in your domestic water line, you will have full city water pressure flowing out of that burst until someone gets home to realize and shut it off. That is a catastrophic situation.

I'd encourage you to research and plan to take action.

OP, yes we turn ours off at the entrance to the house when we go on vacation.

Not exactly accurate. When the heat system cycles, the water in the system is heated and it expands. Most modern systems have expansion tanks to accommodate this expansion, many older systems do not. They relied on the water being pushed back into the supply system, which refilled the system as the water cooled down. These systems need an active water supply to work properly.

[CAG]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Its called thread drift, it happens when people ask questions. Ever have a conversation with someone?

I answered the OPs questions and pointed out the flawed logic in the first response the OP received. Someone asked a question about my response, I answered that question.

Otherwise this forum would be a single question and either one answer or an echo chamber.

The comment was rhetorical and I’m aware of what it is called. In many like sites once the thread goes off topic it gets closed to keep it from becoming 20 pages of unrelated wash. It was not pointed at anyone in particular just all of us in general.

The question does not just get answered it gets answered, and answered, and answered with the same answer from some who fail to read previous responses or just like to pontificate ad nauseam. That would be fine if some of that added to and helped the OP but in most all cases it does not. There is a point where we are no longer helping, just listening to ourselves talk, so to speak.

Just MHO and I don’t need a response hence rhetorical.

[RogerR]

I shut off the water and turn heat (gas forced air) down to 55 and water heater to pilot only for years. But I also have Simplisafe alarm system including a low temp warning sensor and two water sensors. One is near the sump pump and the other is on the other side of the basement.

And Simplisafe has texted me twice in 10 years with water sensor alarms. My son lives an hour away and found the sump pump and replaced it both times saving us thousands of repair cost plus I get a small discount on house insurance.
Get a referral from someone like me who has Simplisafe and you get first month free.

Self install is easy and gives peace of mind as we also have motion sensors that would warn us of burglars plus fire alarm..

[Murff]

Murphy' Law Corollary #88:

A washing machine hose will only fail when the occupants are gone for a week or more!

Murff

[Kim Gass]

Murphy's Law Corollary #89
Your house is dumb. Don't depend on the Internet! We lost it for two days due to power outages around here. Messy snowstorm ; nearby had 22 inches of something related to liquid concrete. Now we all have standby generators ( mostly permanent propane units). So we were warm and watered. But out of information.

No radio station has local news.. Being told to go to dot com is not helpful.
We had two peaceful days where for all we knew the world was done.

[garywilson]

Always. Temperature doesn't matter.
If city turns off water for repairs, etc and then turn it back on, you have a water hammer that can blow your weakest fitting. Everything floods.
If line in yard breaks, expensive water bill.
Since most ground moves for one reason or another, always a potential for a break.
Two 'horror' stories, one a friend and another a neighbor.

[mcdanger]

Originally Posted by gunafulltime

Thank you!

We live in FL and shut off the water when we leave for more than a day. We put a whole house shut off but it is by passed to allow auto pool water to run. I know of one instance of a toilet valve running and flooded the house and ruined all wallboard. House had to be gutted and redone due to mildew and mold.

[bgelyhome]

Yes, we turn off the water coming in to the house.

[Wireman]

Originally Posted by norty1

I suspect the routine would depend on where you live.

In coastal SC, we seldom get cool enough to freeze pipes. When we leave in the winter, the water is turned off at the street sometimes? We have a shallow well for washing cars and watering yards that is turned off and drained and the pump house is on a timer with a bulb in there to keep it above freezing if needed.

In winter we are not traveling for more than 3-4 weeks. In summer we are gone for several months and do not go to much drastic measures. We do have to have yard service cut the grass.

Norty, here in SoCal obviously freezing isn't an issue. i do live in a housing track, with houses built in the 90's. I always shut the water off at the house entrance.

We've had numerous houses with burst water pipes in the attic and the walls. Speculation is cheap copper pipe and fittings used during construction.

My point being frozen pipes are just one of the issues that can cause you grief. Damage can be in the 10's of thousands of dollars before the water can be turned off with no one around.

Takes 10 seconds to shut it down vs months of possible repairs and headaches.

[Hollander Mutthaulers]

For more than a few days we fill a couple gallon milk jugs with water and put them in the sink in case we need some, then turn off the water to the house.
In summer furnace and AC is off, in winter furnace is set to 55.

[Rami D]

I installed an automatic whole hose shut off by Moen. It learns how much water we use, and if there is any flow out of the ordinary, it gives me (cell phone) a worming, and within a minute or so, it shuts the water off.
https://www.moen.com/flo
Or it can be found on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/Moen-900-00...60&sr=8-2&th=1

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by RoadrunnerII

Just had a minor flood in the fall while we where away camping. It was caused by the 1/4 inch line to the fridge icemaker.

Replace it with the braided line then you never have to worry.

https://www.amazon.com/Kelaro-Maker-.../dp/B07X5VTGHT

[javan]

We always turn our water off. We live in PA, and if something unforeseen should happen during our absence, like a loss of electric power, we do not want to come home to a flooded basement. Tuning the water off is a simple turn off a valve.

[Genr8rs]

Yes, turn off at the entrance into our house always and sometimes on long weekends. We have forced air heat, but even they have problems when your gone. Mine just did and today its -18 degrees with 50 mph wind gusts and -37 wind chill. Wont take long to freeze.
I have many years of experience with plumbing, heating and electrical. Pay attention to those horror stories, but if your a gambling man....

[jimmoore13]

Interesting questions...and my answers vary depending on the house.

Previous house, mountain log cabin on a well:

• Turn off the well pump;
• Use the "downstairs" tub and sinks to somewhat drain the system of pressurized water - open upstairs faucets to facilitate complete draining - leave everything open once drained;
• Pull the plug on the electric hot water heater but leave it full;
• Open all cabinet doors that contain plumbing on exterior walls;
• Foam covers over outside hose bibs.

This, of course, didn't winterize, but we used this tactic, summer and winter, for many years.
We had two reasons we didn't actually have to fully winterize.
All of our plumbing was in a central core in the house...the utility room backed up to the downstairs bath, and both the upstairs bath and kitchen sink were stacked above the down bath and utility room. Next, we had electric baseboard heat that we set to about 60 in the utility room and 55 elsewhere. Even if the power went out, we had enough stored warmth in the home to survive 12 hours or more without electricity...but the electric heat was VERY reliable (if expensive).

We did this for years, because the cabin was first a vacation home, and later, when we move there permanently and started RV-ing, we continued the practice to avoid something like a "washing machine hose blowout"...which we experienced with our "city home" (before the log cabin).

Our current home...on "city water and sewer" with a propane forced air furnace.
We don't travel much in winter, so we haven't winterized. While power outages happen, they are generally brief...a few hours. We have a backup generator, so we are never without power.
But our big "problem" is that the main water shutoff is in a far, back corner of a crawl space where I sometimes need to get on my belly and crawl under ducts, drains and so on to get to it.
So the water is on all the time...at pressure.
Your question makes me realize that I NEED a plan for when we are away from the house...even during the summer...because of the dreaded "washing machine hose blowout" phenomenon. In addition to the washer hoses, we also have one to the fridge icemaker and one to the dishwasher...not to mention that every single faucet and toilet in the house is connected with a short stainless braided hose from the shutoff valve to the fixture. And one of these failed just a couple months ago, while we were home. According to the water meter, it spewed 2000 gallons of water before we discovered it...DON'T ASK.

So, there you have it. I need to do something to enable me to EASILY shut off the main water supply to the house. I have a "key" to operate the water main feeding my home at the street, but that's no way to run a railroad.

Getting to my home's main water shutoff is very difficult, but I sure can do it once...to install something like this.
https://www.plumbmaster.com/moen-900...hoCjWYQAvD_BwE

So, I think your question was "would I?" The answer is, damned right I would/will, because fuggeduboud freezing. After two stainless steel braided hose lines failed and flooded our city house and our current house, leaving the house pressurized is asking for problems.

[jimmoore13]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Replace it with the braided line then you never have to worry.

https://www.amazon.com/Kelaro-Maker-.../dp/B07X5VTGHT

I've had two of these fail over the years, so never say never. (see my post below).

[Kim Gass]

We were away since Thursday AM.. Friday AM the power went out. The temp Sat and Sun were way below freezing for highs. The power was out Friday Saturday Sunday Monday until 3;30. 78 hours. We got back about 2pm Monday

We did not turn the water off but you really have to think through your houses situation.. We have a very large and very rooted in concrete automatic generator that powers the whole house ( when you are away all you care about is heat but the genny doesn't care). So thievery is not an issue. We have a couple of neighbors who don't mind sashaying over here and listening for the hummmm of the genny each day. When its really cold all they have to look for is our Christmas Lights this season.

Our house has hot water heat and it is winterized with propylene glycol year round.. The builder was..an idiot.. The house is insulated. The lines on one wall are OUTSIDE the insulation. ( we are trying to fix that as we go)The line from the well pump is not insulated . I think it is below the frost line as it has never frozen but we have had freeze ups in prior houses on wells because a contractor went cheap and ran the line over a ledge and did not bother to bury beneath the frost line. So our concern over turning off water is that line from the well to the house freezing solid. Back in NJ the poorly installed line required an arc welder for a long time to thaw out the pipes ( copper.. wouldn't work on newer water lines I think)

Have to say that our investment years ago in a standby genny was well worth it.. We learned we can go for two weeks off grid if necessary.. ( use five percent of propane supply a day). There is a huge propane tank. None of this involves running to a gas station ( nearest is 10 miles away!) with gas cans to keep a noisy contractors genny going.

Yes there has to be a plan. The plan can vary and we are fortunate to have neighbors ( the homes are each on two acres so not close) who we can trust to check and to check well.

And now to the propane bill....Not all peaches and cream. However no hassle from any HOA.. ( The scourge of developments)