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Old 09-22-2020, 11:04 AM   #1
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Disappointed Jayco Customer Service

WOW... Had my first run in with Jayco Customer Service. Trying to replace tanked with tankless water heater.

Rarely do I post but felt I had to. I originally called my dealer that I purchased my 2021 312BHOK from a few weeks ago. They do not have any experience with the JayCommand system and tankless water heaters... nor am I finding anyone that has... I currently have the 6 gal water heater that came with the unit.

So I decided to call Jayco and ask about replacing the water heater with a tankless and had a question. Will the JayCommand system work the same as the switches we used to have in our older rigs? 12V on or off... basically... I can't image the suburban water heater is some special unit that has to communicate with the water heater.

The lady on the phone, who was rude as all get out. Said you need to call your dealer. I stated I already did that and they have no experience since it is a new system. She said the only thing she can tell me is Jayco won't advise on modification and that is a modification. I asked again, if she can advise me on only the JayCommand system. Don't worry about what it is hooked to regardless if I want to modify it or not. She again said I have to call the dealer. I said I did... Round robin starts and ends quickly with her saying Have a nice day and hangs up... After all the great things I have heard about Jayco I am a bit perplexed.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:19 AM   #2
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Wow! I have heard many times they do not want to give out information on a unit that is still in warranty. Just don't recall hearing about pure rude customer service rep.

May need to try another approach. Call and ask for the low voltage wiring diagram. If they question it, say you need to add power for medical equipment.

I suspect the JayCommand system is all low voltage, hence you could get the wiring diagram through a bit of lie.

Now the real question, why do you want a tankless water heater? Do you only camp with full hookups?

Good luck
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:22 AM   #3
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We may camp a little without hookups... More importantly, between wife, daughter and me all trying to take showers in a short amount of time, I know the tanked water heater will not keep up. For us, it is convenience. I am done with the navy shower routine...
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:29 AM   #4
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Before you make that leap, you might want to search the forum (top of the page) on the tank/tankless topic. From what I have read here there are more that dump the tankless than visa-versa.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:31 AM   #5
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I have seen those. I agree with both sides and see why people love or hate them. I won't get rid of tanked water heater in case I want to go back to it.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:39 AM   #6
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If you have never used a Tankless water heater, talk to a few people before you invest in one. You will love it or absolutely hate it. We have one in our house. You will get a slug of cold every time it fires up. So if you take a shower and turn the water off, say while washing your hair. When you turn the water back on to rinse. It will be hot for a moment (existing water in the pipe), then you will get a slug of cold water until the WH, purges the flame chamber, fires, and heats the incoming water. In my SB house, I would guess the slug is a gallon of water, in the TT, I suspect it is less, as the water flow rate is much lower. Doing dishes is the same. You will get that slug every time you turn the faucet on/off while rinsing, etc. In our SB house, when doing dishes we turn the water flow down, but just pour hot water down the drain as we wash dishes.
Otherwise we would rinse in cold water.

As stated above there is a learning curve, it is either a love or a hate relationship. You can use a lot of water, which is not always a good thing in a camper when you do not have full hook ups.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:42 AM   #7
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I say we come up with the perfect solution and become billionaires! Uhhh maybe ten thousand aires???

I agree from what I read. It is either Love or Hate.... Just trying to keep the DW happy!
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:59 AM   #8
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I’m not sure on the JayCommand system but have looked at others and it is really just a Bluetooth phone or tablet that controls a relay module To turn things off and on, just like a switch would. You could test this by looking at a wiring diagram of the water heater model, probably available online and using a volt meter just teat the 12v power connection.

So on to tankless water heaters. They kinda got a bad rap because of the early Girard units, they have gotten better. Out Seneca came with a Truma unit but it was a “basic” model. We were not happy with it at first but had it upgraded for around $300 to the Comfort model which has an Eco and Comfort mode. On comfort it keeps the water in the tank, about a liter, at 108 degrees at all times which has worked great for us as unit is a rear bath and you have hot water in 2-3 seconds. The kitchen sink up front takes a while and since we boondock most of the time this can waste a lot of water so I installed a hot water circulation system. You just push an air switch mounted in the counter and it opens a valve on the hot line and it runs for 20 seconds and closes and you have hot water. The return line dumps back into the fresh water tank so no water is wasted. The Truma is spendy but I would not install the basic model, only the comfort or comfort plus. The comfort plus has a hot water circulation system pump build into it but installation can be trickier as you need to plumb a return line from the furthest away hot line.

We love our Truma now since the upgrade, it also make it so you can decalcify yourself and gives you freeze protection.
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Old 09-22-2020, 12:02 PM   #9
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I just did a quick search and came up with a manual for the JayCommand that might help you out....

https://teambmpro.com/wp-content/upl...ered-BMPRO.pdf

https://teambmpro.com/products/smart...powered-bmpro/
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Old 09-22-2020, 12:03 PM   #10
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I think you are correct on it being a simple on or off deal. No way systems have been re-engineered for the JayCommand system. Sad that Jayco couldn't help out a bit... That is on them.

I just called Truma and discussed. They are sending out their units in Jayco Fifth Wheels with the JayCommand. So if I were a betting man... It is nothing more than 12v on or off.
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Old 09-22-2020, 12:34 PM   #11
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JayCommand uses 2 different companies based upon the trailer, LCI and BMPro, both of these use nodes to control/determine status of item its controlling. So I would imagine it’s just a on/off type things....

But, since these trailers have a bypass for winterizing, you could put the tankless in line of the bypass and use it that way so you can always go back or use the other in a pinch.

Question to you, I was told the 6 gallon tank gas/electric WH could be used with both the gas and electric turned on and it would keep up pretty good.... have you been you using it with both gas and electric? Asking for my own reference for when I get my 2021 TT.
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JayFeather24BH View Post
JayCommand uses 2 different companies based upon the trailer, LCI and BMPro, both of these use nodes to control/determine status of item its controlling. So I would imagine it’s just a on/off type things....

But, since these trailers have a bypass for winterizing, you could put the tankless in line of the bypass and use it that way so you can always go back or use the other in a pinch.

Question to you, I was told the 6 tank gas/electric WH could be used with both the gas and electric turned on and it would keep up pretty good.... have you been you using it with both gas and electric? Asking for my own reference for when I get my 2021 TT.
I believe the full-tank recovery time on a gas/electric 6 gallon unit is 18 minutes on gas & electric?

One thing I've noticed is that my tank produces VERY hot water, so I usually don't have to use much of it to get a comfortable shower. My wife, my son and I can all shower back to back comfortably. Especially since no one gets in the shower until the previous user is done, which typically takes something like 10 minutes. So it's not like we're running the hot water constant for 30 minutes straight; the tank has some time to recover between showers...
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:20 PM   #13
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Sad that Jayco couldn't help out a bit... That is on them.
The people who answer the phone are not "service techs" so she wouldn't have the answer anyway. I'm more surprised that you dealer didn't know. How would they ever service your rig or anybody else's?
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:31 PM   #14
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I believe the full-tank recovery time on a gas/electric 6 gallon unit is 18 minutes on gas & electric?

One thing I've noticed is that my tank produces VERY hot water, so I usually don't have to use much of it to get a comfortable shower. My wife, my son and I can all shower back to back comfortably. Especially since no one gets in the shower until the previous user is done, which typically takes something like 10 minutes. So it's not like we're running the hot water constant for 30 minutes straight; the tank has some time to recover between showers...
I swapped my tankless for a tank model because I absolutely hated it. Not only was the water temp poor, you have to run the thing at a high flow rate just to get it to come on. This wastes a lot of water. My tank version is so much better and I am very happy with it.

Before you swap, think about 2 things. If you ever dry camp you will use more water with the tankless. Also, you will fill up your holding tank quicker because of the higher flow rates required.

Try staggering your showers and using both electric and propane at the same time to heat the water during the showers even if it means using the generator. This has worked for my family.
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:59 PM   #15
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I believe the full-tank recovery time on a gas/electric 6 gallon unit is 18 minutes on gas & electric?
..and that's from a complete cold start... but since it starts to heat as soon as the thermostat sees colder water, I believe it recovers even faster.

Here is the sticker from my WH showing recovery time. On electric/gas, it's pretty quick. If there's a few minutes between showers, I find it hard not to believe it will be at full hot for the next person.
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:51 PM   #16
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If it were me, before I went tankless, I would see if a larger water heater could be installed. I have a 10 gallon Atwood in my Eagle and have tried many times to run it out of hot water to no avail. Although I like the Eagle line of Jayco 5th wheels, I can't believe they put those little 6 gallon heaters in those big 5th wheels. You have to go up to a Northpoint or Pinnacle to get the larger water heater.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:02 PM   #17
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Just wife & I in our White Hawk. I take longer showers with the 6 gallon propane electric heater and usually with just the electric on and have never ran out of hot water. I agree staggering you showers slightly and with the time you spend in the bathroom after your shower will be time for the water to get hot for the next dirty body.

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Old 09-22-2020, 04:25 PM   #18
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5 in my family, 3 girls and 2 boys. Using gas and electric. We never had any problems.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:15 PM   #19
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?.......
So on to tankless water heaters. They kinda got a bad rap because of the early Girard units, they have gotten better. Out Seneca came with a Truma unit but it was a “basic” model. We were not happy with it at first but had it upgraded for around $300 to the Comfort model which has an Eco and Comfort mode. On comfort it keeps the water in the tank, about a liter, at 108 degrees at all times which has worked great for us as unit is a rear bath and you have hot water in 2-3 seconds.
We love our Truma now since the upgrade, it also make it so you can decalcify yourself and gives you freeze protection.
I always had a 6 gallon HWH in all my TT’s over the years. When we bought our Precept it came with the Girard which did not work well for us. We had it swapped out for the Truma Comfort model and it works great and makes my DW very happy. The only drawback I see with it is it runs on propane only since it’s not real practical to heat water to high temps in a short timeframe with only a 50 amp service. But for us it is not an issue as we stay mostly in full hookup CG’s and a tank of propane will last a full camping season.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:11 PM   #20
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I just did a quick search and came up with a manual for the JayCommand that might help you out....

https://teambmpro.com/wp-content/upl...ered-BMPRO.pdf

https://teambmpro.com/products/smart...powered-bmpro/
I am still trying to wrap my head around JayCommand but it would appear there are different iterations, so the BMP links may not be appropriate for all. At the heart of this is the CAN Bus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus), which was developed for automotive automation/control. My 2019 36FBTS has an Omega controller and the control panel, displays OneControl (LCI) and has a single hard button for power on/off. The basic functionality remains the same across the different hardware options but the software/firmware/interface options may vary. I have been having trouble trying to connect with my iPhone and it would appear that things are more geared toward Android. I am still exploring this to better understand the issues. I tried to get the electrical schematics but being under warranty they would not provide them. They sure do not make this easy.
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