Do you travel with the frig on poll

[msturtz]

We had a 2004'JayFlight 29BHS and we turned on the frig and didn't turn it off until we sold it except when we defrosted it to clean it out. Been through many tunnels never turned it off. Not at gas stations either. The frig had a hard time keeping up as it was. Occasionally we brought a cooler with dry ice if we had too much frozen food to fit in the freezer. Now we have a new Greyhawk and it hasn't been of since we got it. I have thermometers in both the freezer and refrigerator compartments and keep the temp as close to 32 f as I can get it without freezing. It keeps food longer.

[Shorty Cox]

Fridge ON, always on, never been off.

[troutslayer]

I guess I'll buck the trend here and say that I never travel with the propane on and therefore never have the refer on when on the road. Call me crazy

[VicS1950]

I find it interesting that some people here criticize others for endangering people by not using a Weight Distributing Hitch (for which there are fewer specific related laws and regulations), but openly admit to not following the laws and regulations regarding propane in tunnels and at fuel stations.

As to not having any problems, you can close your eyes and cross back and forth many times on a rural highway and not get hit by a car. That doesn't mean that it is not a dangerous practice. Leaving an open flame device operating in tunnels or at fuel stations is against the law and dangerous. Period. The possible consequences are too great to even consider worth risking.
*********************************
Risk of accidental ignition

A "No Smoking" sign at a gas station

It is prohibited to use open flames and, in some places, mobile phones on the forecourt of a filling station because of the risk of igniting gasoline vapor. In the U.S. the fire marshal is responsible for regulations at the gas pump. Most localities ban smoking, open flames and running engines. Since the increased occurrence of static-related fires many stations have warnings about leaving the refueling point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filling...ental_ignition

vic

[eldermike]

I have no idea how to get to a fuel pump without running my engine. If it's a two sided pump and someone is filling up on the other side should I stop 10 feet back and push my rig to the pump? I have no idea how to leave a fuel pump without starting up my engine. Am I safe now that "I" am not pumping fuel even if someone else is pumping fuel from the same pump? How do those rules force the fumes from the other side of the pump to obey and stay on thier side????? Now there is good question.

Also, given the height of the "open flame" on my ref and it being 45 feet back from the pump if there were sufficent gas/air density to ignite you would never make it to the pump to begin with, unless you were breathing oxygen from some other source than normal.
Also, if there is sufficent gas/air density for igniton in a tunnel everyone would pass out on the way through it and crash into each other simply because you can't breath that concentration of gas/air and live.

I think this: We should obey laws but we don't have to be confused about how things actually work, you can know things, and we should understand that sometimes we are following a rule that has no actual reason to exist........but follow it we should.

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by eldermike

I have no idea how to get to a fuel pump without running my engine. If it's a two sided pump and someone is filling up on the other side should I stop 10 feet back and push my rig to the pump? I have no idea how to leave a fuel pump without starting up my engine. Am I safe now that "I" am not pumping fuel even if someone else is pumping fuel from the same pump? How do those rules force the fumes from the other side of the pump to obey and stay on thier side????? Now there is good question.

Also, given the height of the "open flame" on my ref and it being 45 feet back from the pump if there were sufficent gas/air density to ignite you would never make it to the pump to begin with, unless you were breathing oxygen from some other source than normal.
Also, if there is sufficent gas/air density for igniton in a tunnel everyone would pass out on the way through it and crash into each other simply because you can't breath that concentration of gas/air and live.

I think this: We should obey laws but we don't have to be confused about how things actually work, you can know things, and we should understand that sometimes we are following a rule that has no actual reason to exist........but follow it we should.

Here's the point - it's not about everyday transactions - we all know pumps are safe. It's about public safety during a mishap....(tank overfill, can dumped over, equipment malfunction, car drives onto the lot with a leaking gas tank, vehicle backs into a pump, car drives off with hose attached to the car). NOW...the last thing we need is a spark or flame.

[eldermike]

Originally Posted by Threebutchers

Here's the point - it's not about everyday transactions - we all know pumps are safe. It's about public safety during a mishap....(tank overfill, can dumped over, equipment malfunction, car drives onto the lot with a leaking gas tank, vehicle backs into a pump, car drives off with hose attached to the car). NOW...the last thing we need is a spark or flame.

I am all about safety. But if somone backs into a pump I am starting up and moving away......everyone else can stick around and be "safe". But you are not safe........the pump is electric, that's how the gas gets from the ground and into the tank and that's how it knows your credit card and when to stop pumping. There is no IEC-EX compliant fuel delivery system in the US......for example: to be EX a pump would have to have an internal system to disconnect it's electric service in the event somoene plows it off it's based with a car. The disconnect would need to be proven in all possible senerios.....
We don't have that.

But again, I will follow the rules.......even though NASCAR dumps a ton of gas in 43 running cars in about 13 seconds several times each weekend.

Don't take me wrong I believe in safety......but it's ok to understand the actual danger is already built into the pump.

We do unsafe things every day. Driving comes to the top of the list......if you want to be safe, don't drive. If you want to be safer than you are while driving go hang out at a gas station because you are less likely to be hurt at a gas station than even in your home. There are so many things more unsafe than refueling stations that there is not enough space to write them all down. If you drive, everything else you do is safer.
Gas stations are safe, the miles between them are filled with danger.

But again: obey all rules

[The Hawk]

This always seem to be an on going discussion. I travel with the the LP shut off. I will never have a LP consume my rig while traveling down the highway and that cannot be said about the people who leave the refer running on LP. The refer stays cold for at least 8 hours when not running and the LP closed off.
If anyone one wants to see how dangerous LP can be when not properly used, check on You Tube and type in RV fire. Most all are started in the center of the rig where the LP connections are. There are some you tubes where the rig is brand new! Once a fire starts in a RV stand back, they are impossible to stop.
A former trainer with the Western LP Gas Association.

[msturtz]

I must weigh in here while rules are rules I think we need to be realistic. To turn off the refrigerator on a TT requires the following procedure:
Stop at the fuel pump
Set the brake
Walk back to the TT
Unlock the TT
Go inside
Turn off the refrigerator
go to the front of the TT
Uncover the propane tanks
note which tank is in use
turn off the tanks
fuel the TV
go back to the propane tanks and turn on the propane
go back into the TT and turn on the refrigerator
verify it is working (frequently it isn't and the lines need to be purged but turning on the stove)
go back to the front verify that the propane bottles are properly covered
drive off
You have to do all of this while you are blocking at least one pump and with my old rig at least two pumps

Similarly with a tunnel you need to pull over on the side of the road and perform the procedure while you are on the side of the road before and after the tunnel. Many tunnels don't have any place to stop so that is dangerous.

Leaving the refrigerator off while traveling works fine for a short while if you are in cloudy weather less than 60F however does not work well if you are in 100F sunny weather. Health department regulations state that if food is over 40F and under 140F for more than a few minutes it must be tossed out due to excessive microbial growth. At some point we need to weigh the various risks.

I used to drive a fuel truck and don't see an issue with a refrigerator in an enclosed compartment with an enclosed flue. It is highly unlikely to get enough concentration of air-fuel mixture to cause a fire. Most service station fires are caused by static discharge. The most common cause: people getting back into their vehicle during the fueling process! To perform the above procedure requires you to enter and exit your vehicle at least twice and the potential for a real problem with static electricity is a greater danger especially since many RVs use synthetic carpet.
There are a lot of regulations written with good intentions by bureaucrats sitting in their ivory towers with no connection to reality.
On ferries where they provide a time and place to turn off the propane and refrigerator or in posted tunnels where they do the same I would turn off the refrigerator otherwise I won't.

[Crabman]

From the VDOT website pertaining to propane tanks and the Hampton Roads tunnel:

"Hazardous Materials

Before motor homes can go through tunnels, they must stop to have propane tanks checked."


http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/hr...ult.asp#hazmat

And they have flagged down RV`s that fail to stop to be inspected.

[jdorant]

Originally Posted by joeortego

How do you know what the cause is we had only went about 10 miles stopped to get a water bottle thought I would check it and the lights on the fridge was blinking which on my unit means its not on and after so many seconds it would try again up to 3 times then it would have to be turned off and them back on which it starts to work till we take off again. Any suggestions?

Make sure you are bleeding your propane lines before trying to run your fridge on propane. A small air bubble could be keeping your fridge from lighting on propane or going out. You can bleed you lines by lighting the stove and letting it run for 30 seconds.

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by Crabman

From the VDOT website pertaining to propane tanks and the Hampton Roads tunnel:

"Hazardous Materials

Before motor homes can go through tunnels, they must stop to have propane tanks checked."


http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/hr...ult.asp#hazmat

And they have flagged down RV`s that fail to stop to be inspected.

Yep similar to what is on Washington State Ferries. If I saw such a sign and they had a place to pull over and handle it I would turn off the fridge and propane.

[NewBlackDak]

We're plugged in at home, so the fridge is already cold. When you load it up with cold heatsinks(food) it stays cold for a long time without any power. If we know we're driving more than a couple hours, we put frozen water bottles in the fridge and a block of dry ice in the bottom of the freezer. Both easy solution that don't endanger anyone.

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by NewBlackDak

We're plugged in at home, so the fridge is already cold. When you load it up with cold heatsinks(food) it stays cold for a long time without any power. If we know we're driving more than a couple hours, we put frozen water bottles in the fridge and a block of dry ice in the bottom of the freezer. Both easy solution that don't endanger anyone.

I tried the dry ice on a trip. It is expensive and a hassle. It depends on where you live and the ambient temperature. Our fridge barely kept up in the summer when the temp exceeded 70F and we go east of the mountains and it is 90 - 110 F it is a hopeless case. I had to manage how much warm pop I put into the fridge. These absorption fridges are not the same as your home fridge. We regularly had slushy ice cream etc because the freezer compartment would be between 28 - 32 F.

[Jayko 141]

Oh my goodness, I never thought about refueling...

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by eldermike

Gas stations are safe...

And that IS point...gas stations (and tunnels) ARE safe...it's PEOPLE who aren't...

[clubhouse]

Originally Posted by NewBlackDak

We're plugged in at home, so the fridge is already cold. When you load it up with cold heatsinks(food) it stays cold for a long time without any power. If we know we're driving more than a couple hours, we put frozen water bottles in the fridge and a block of dry ice in the bottom of the freezer. Both easy solution that don't endanger anyone.

As previously mentioned I travel with the fridge on, and here is why.

A couple trips ago I plugged in TT and turned on fridge 2+ days before leaving, it got plenty cold. Night before leaving we loaded fridge and freezer with pre-chilled/pre-frozen items. Fridge was packed tight and freezer fairly full, and left on till minutes befroe leaving the following day. We traveled ~200 mile (~4hrs) in 95-102 heat. Thought the fridge would work like a cooler; but no, I arrived to have warm milk & wilted veg. Frozen chicken started to thaw and ice cream was soft.

I don't buy the idea that these fridges hold temp if off while traveling.

We rarely have to fuel up while towing, never travel through tunnels and rarely cross any of of major bridges. My Fridge now stays on while traveling.

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by msturtz

I must weigh in here while rules are rules I think we need to be realistic. To turn off the refrigerator on a TT requires the following procedure:
Stop at the fuel pump
Set the brake
Walk back to the TT
Unlock the TT
Go inside
Turn off the refrigerator
go to the front of the TT
Uncover the propane tanks
note which tank is in use
turn off the tanks
fuel the TV
go back to the propane tanks and turn on the propane
go back into the TT and turn on the refrigerator
verify it is working (frequently it isn't and the lines need to be purged but turning on the stove)
go back to the front verify that the propane bottles are properly covered
drive off
You have to do all of this while you are blocking at least one pump and with my old rig at least two pumps

Similarly with a tunnel you need to pull over on the side of the road and perform the procedure while you are on the side of the road before and after the tunnel. Many tunnels don't have any place to stop so that is dangerous.

....and the people say....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gLMSf4afzo

[VicS1950]

Even though once before a moderator deleted some of my posts which contained safety comments about battery boxes (complete with references) because some other member's replies were over the top... it seems that some here are questioning my ability to understand systems, so I'll reply here.

Anyone who has any safety training should know that the fire triangle has three elements. Oxygen, fuel, ignition (heat). If all three are present there is danger, take away any one and the danger is gone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle

We live and drive in about 21% oxygen. So no control over that.

We pull into a fuel station and EXPECT that conditions will be normal, but there may be a fuel spill or other problem which we have no control over. So not much control over that other than avoidance should you observe something as you approach.

Ignition source. Now there's one we can control. We can not smoke cigarettes around fuel stations. We can shut off our engines. We can make certain that our trailer doesn't have an open flame by not running propane appliances.

Some people think it is silly to pull into the station and then go back and shut off their refrigerator. I agree completely. It should be done before you get to the fuel pump area. Nobody can convince me that if they want to operate their propane appliances while on the road and also fuel up safely, that there isn't somewhere in the parking lot to stop, turn off the appliances and THEN proceed to the fuel area. The same applies to tunnels. There is plenty of signage and warning for anyone who really cares about safety to find a safe place to pull off the highway and secure their propane tanks before the tunnel.

A vehicle with an engine running pulling up to a fuel pump presents little risk. The engine fan is moving air across any potential spark making or heat devices which keeps the atmosphere out of an explosive range. In fact, with electronic controls there are fewer spark making devices in a vehicle anymore anyway. So pulling up and driving away do not present a big risk.

As to fuel trucks... last time I recall being around them they are storage and transport trailers. They do not have any open flame appliances associated with them. There are however many regulations and rules specified by the DOT for proper operation of fuel transport. They are not at all the same as pulling up to a fuel station with a travel trailer which has an operating open flame.

Threebutchers has the right idea. It isn't the normal conditions which will get you. It is the abnormal, unexpected which will be the problem. You will not be able to pull your strapped in the back seat, burning grandchildren out of the fire in time once your trailer has sparked some spilled fuel vapors. Most tunnels have no escape.

Do with my opinions what you will. vic

[Crabman]

As long as we continue to discuss this issue in a civil manner we will let it run. If things get too hot and attacks get personal, we`ll shut her down as usual. Have fun with the topic and poll guys.