Egregious overloading

[klinner28]

I was considering a 5th wheel with a F250 diesel and after calculations, determined that it would easily exceed my payload, despite any "HT" designation on a Jayco.

On our last trip, we went to a couple of campgrounds and I checked people's tow vehicle for a 5th wheel.

The worst I've seen - a Chevy 2500 towing a Pinnacle! Either the owner is completely clueless or doesn't care.

If he's clueless, the dealer must be willing to take some responsibility for selling it right?

[PlayersZ28]

How do you figure the HT would exceed the 3/4t payload? The 29.5BHDS is 10k gross which if you stuff it full would give you 2500# pin. A Chev 2500 gasser in CC 2WD has 3230# payload.

As far as other people then you should report it to the weight police

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by klinner28

The worst I've seen - a Chevy 2500 towing a Pinnacle! Either the owner is completely clueless or doesn't care.

Depends on how you define "clueless".

Clueless could be that a gas GM 2500 could have up to 3500 lbs of available payload.

Clueless could be that the only difference between a diesel 2500 (with 2500 lbs of payload) and a diesel SRW 3500 (with 4200 lbs of payload) is nothing more than an additional overload spring on the 3500?

Clueless could be that the manufacturers 10,000 GVW rating is nothing more than an arbitrary spec and doesn't have any influence on how much weight the truck can physically carry.

Clueless could be that the 10,000 GVW has nothing to do with how much the vehicle can legally be registered too weigh.

Clueless could be not knowing that the rear axle of that Chevy 2500 is a AAM 11.5" axle rated to 11,000 lbs.

But again... clueless depends on how you define the word.

By the way, you might gain some information reading this...Pickup Trucks 101: How Do SRW 2500s and 3500s Differ? - PickupTrucks.com News

[klinner28]

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

How do you figure the HT would exceed the 3/4t payload? The 29.5BHDS is 10k gross which if you stuff it full would give you 2500# pin. A Chev 2500 gasser in CC 2WD has 3230# payload.

As far as other people then you should report it to the weight police

Let me know if I'm evaluating this correctly because I'd love to be wrong and be able to tow a 5th wheel.

The sticker on my F250 door says do not exceed 2057lbs.

2057 - 500 (family of 5) = 1557 remaining
1557 - 400 (5th wheel hitch weight) = 1157 remaining
1157 - 1715 (dry hitch weight 29.5BHDS) = 558 overweight

So if I google F250 payload, it says 3300-4200, but with the crew cab and accessories, it greatly reduces that.

[norty1]

Dealers don't usually sell clues.

The buyer has to get them some where else in most cases.

[norty1]

Originally Posted by klinner28

Let me know if I'm evaluating this correctly because I'd love to be wrong and be able to tow a 5th wheel.

The sticker on my F250 door says do not exceed 2057lbs.

2057 - 500 (family of 5) = 1557 remaining
1557 - 400 (5th wheel hitch weight) = 1157 remaining
1157 - 1715 (dry hitch weight 29.5BHDS) = 558 overweight

Usually the hitch pin weight is 15-20% of the gross trailer weight. There are the clues. Your pin weight will be closer to 1500 to 2000 lbs.

Another consideration is the dry hitch pin weight is useless unless you add in what you are loading on the fifth wheel and weigh it.

I would do some more research. The payload sticker on your truck is for that truck specifically.

[klinner28]

Originally Posted by norty1

Usually the hitch pin weight is 15-20% of the gross trailer weight. There are the clues. Your pin weight will be closer to 1500 to 2000 lbs.

Another consideration is the dry hitch pin weight is useless unless you add in what you are loading on the fifth wheel and weigh it.

I would do some more research. The payload sticker on your truck is for that truck specifically.

Right, there is no Jayco 5th wheel that is less than 1450 dry pin weight so anything additional in the RV will add to it.

Based on the calculations for my truck, 1157 is what I have remaining so there's not a single 5th wheel I can tow without exceeding payload.

[jpgale]

What year f250 do you have? I have a 2003 f250 with the 6.0 powerstroke. I have reviewed the ford fleet specs the only difference between the f250 and f350 is the number of springs in the front and read. Unless of course the f250 was equipped with the optional camper package which mine was, then the only difference is the door jam sticker for the f250 still says 8800 GVWR and the f350 say 9900 GVWR even if the f250 camper package has the exact same suspension as the f350.

To truly determine your payload, go to the scale with your family and weigh. Take that weight from the GVWR that is what you have left. Then look at 5th wheel hitches can you get one that is lighter, for instance this one http://www.reeseprod.com/products/fi...cCgd0AWKJy%7Cl is listed around 150 pounds and I have not tried to find anymore. 250 pounds of supporting equipment for the hitch feels too heavy.

[wags999]

Originally Posted by klinner28

I was considering a 5th wheel with a F250 diesel and after calculations, determined that it would easily exceed my payload, despite any "HT" designation on a Jayco.

On our last trip, we went to a couple of campgrounds and I checked people's tow vehicle for a 5th wheel.

The worst I've seen - a Chevy 2500 towing a Pinnacle! Either the owner is completely clueless or doesn't care.

If he's clueless, the dealer must be willing to take some responsibility for selling it right?

I've found that the vast majority of dealers and buyers only look at towing capacity....they ARE clueless as to cargo capacity, which is topped out long before towing capacity in most cases... Amazing how few people really understand everything about towing an RV...more need to be on the Jayco forums so they can educate themselves

[norty1]

Originally Posted by jpgale

........snip...
To truly determine your payload, go to the scale with your family and weigh. Take that weight from the GVWR that is what you have left. Then look at 5th wheel hitches can you get one that is lighter, for instance this one http://www.reeseprod.com/products/fi...cCgd0AWKJy%7Cl is listed around 150 pounds and I have not tried to find anymore. 250 pounds of supporting equipment for the hitch feels too heavy.

The hitch weight is a consideration in addition to the weight that the fifth wheel trailer adds to the truck when connected.

[jpgale]

Originally Posted by norty1

The hitch weight is a consideration in addition to the weight that the fifth wheel trailer adds to the truck when connected.

I agree, however if you have not decided to get a fiver over a travel trailer you may need to know the payload without the hitch.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by klinner28

Let me know if I'm evaluating this correctly because I'd love to be wrong and be able to tow a 5th wheel.

The sticker on my F250 door says do not exceed 2057lbs.

2057 - 500 (family of 5) = 1557 remaining
1557 - 400 (5th wheel hitch weight) = 1157 remaining
1157 - 1715 (dry hitch weight 29.5BHDS) = 558 overweight

So if I google F250 payload, it says 3300-4200, but with the crew cab and accessories, it greatly reduces that.

Current F250 CC SB shows 3470# payload (9900 pkg is 100# less but that's a sticker change for taxes). What truck do you have that is 1400# less?

My Chev is 3927# cap, loaded and hooked up with full fuel tank I'm about 100# over that with 2 adults. I have about 3200# on the pin. The 3500 SRW is not that far above the 2500 as the tires are the limit which is why the dually has a lot more cap, 2x the tires, otherwise it's the same.

[vcbice]

My 2017 Ford diesel, crew cab, 4x4 reg bed has 2632lb cargo on the sticker. My 2009 Dodge diesel, 4x4 crew cab reg bed had a capacity of just under 2100lb.

My hitch is under 150lb.

Our trailer when loaded had a pin of ~2000lb (10,800 trailer weight).

So, yes the Dodge was just over the limit. The Ford is well within the limits.

Just all depends on your exact truck and load. We have just me, my wife and the dog in the truck when we travel.

PS FWIW my 2006 Tundra had a payload of 1675lb.

[CampNow]

If you have a 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab truck, and you'd prefer to stay at or under the payload/GVW rating, you will need to watch your pin weight carefully. Loaded down with a family of four, gear, hitch, and, say, 1,500 lbs. of pin weight (typically a very small 5th wheel), odds are you'll be right at (or even over--depending on make/model truck) the payload/GVW rating. Many 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab trucks (especially those laden down with heavy, high trim options) have payload ratings as low as 2,000 - 2,200 lbs.

If you subscribe to the opinion (1) a 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab is just a slightly de-rated 1-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab, (2) the payload/GVW rating is only for licensing/registration/warranty purposes, and (3) the payload/GVW rating has no bearing on your potential liability in the event of any accident, then you're probably good with up to 2,500 lbs. of pin weight, although you may need some airbag assistance.

Pick your poison. IMO, both involve significant compromises.

We're thankful we had the opportunity to watch this debate play out hundreds of times before we ever purchased our first diesel. Rather than be forced to pick one compromise over the other, we elected to purchase a 1-ton diesel SRW instead.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by CampNow

If you have a 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab truck, and you'd prefer to stay at or under the payload/GVW rating, you will need to watch your pin weight carefully. Loaded down with a family of four, gear, hitch, and, say, 1,500 lbs. of pin weight (typically a very small 5th wheel), odds are you'll be right at (or even over--depending on make/model truck) the payload/GVW rating. Many 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab trucks (especially those laden down with heavy, high trim options) have payload ratings as low as 2,000 - 2,200 lbs.

If you subscribe to the opinion (1) a 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab is just a slightly de-rated 1-ton diesel 4x4 crew/ext cab, (2) the payload/GVW rating is only for licensing/registration/warranty purposes, and (3) the payload/GVW rating has no bearing on your potential liability in the event of any accident, then you're probably good with up to 2,500 lbs. of pin weight, although you may need some airbag assistance.

Pick your poison. IMO, both involve significant compromises.

We're thankful we had the opportunity to watch this debate play out hundreds of times before we ever purchased our first diesel. Rather than be forced to pick one compromise over the other, we elected to purchase a 1-ton diesel SRW instead.

If you're buying a truck to tow with then it is better to go 1T, if you have a 3/4T already then, as you said, you need to determine if you can/are willing to make it work. My 1T SRW sits flat with ~3200# on the pin and loaded to travel, no bags. I prefer it over the '11 F350 DRW I had and it out pulls the Ford too (not looking to argue F vs C, I have both)

[Atlee]

Does your 3/4 ton have the diesel engine? If so, that's a big part of your problem. There is a steep discount in payload with the diesel engine.

If I were getting a 3/4 ton, I'd look for a gasser. If I wanted a diesel, I'd go to the 1 ton model.

Originally Posted by klinner28

Let me know if I'm evaluating this correctly because I'd love to be wrong and be able to tow a 5th wheel.

The sticker on my F250 door says do not exceed 2057lbs.

2057 - 500 (family of 5) = 1557 remaining
1557 - 400 (5th wheel hitch weight) = 1157 remaining
1157 - 1715 (dry hitch weight 29.5BHDS) = 558 overweight

So if I google F250 payload, it says 3300-4200, but with the crew cab and accessories, it greatly reduces that.

[vcbice]

Originally Posted by klinner28

Let me know if I'm evaluating this correctly because I'd love to be wrong and be able to tow a 5th wheel.

The sticker on my F250 door says do not exceed 2057lbs.

2057 - 500 (family of 5) = 1557 remaining
1557 - 400 (5th wheel hitch weight) = 1157 remaining
1157 - 1715 (dry hitch weight 29.5BHDS) = 558 overweight

So if I google F250 payload, it says 3300-4200, but with the crew cab and accessories, it greatly reduces that.

Sorry I missed this before. Is the 500lb for your family including you? If so the truck mfg calculates load with a drive (175lb I think). Second, if my hitch weighed 400lb then I must be a strong SOB cause I can get it in and out of the truck by myself (the head detaches). Figuring 75lb each that means 150lb max.

But, yes, you will be overweight with that truck.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by vcbice

Sorry I missed this before. Is the 500lb for your family including you? If so the truck mfg calculates load with a drive (175lb I think). Second, if my hitch weighed 400lb then I must be a strong SOB cause I can get it in and out of the truck by myself (the head detaches). Figuring 75lb each that means 150lb max.

But, yes, you will be overweight with that truck.

I used to carry my Reese 25k assembled and on my own. Probably why I needed the 2nd hernia op.

Total truck weight should include a tank of fuel. Before deciding what you can or cannot tow just load it up to haul, add fuel and people and CAT scale it to get frt & rear wts. GAWR for the rear minus the scale # is your pin capacity.

[vcbice]

LOL, yeah I picked up my B&W hitch one time, just once Could not lift it high enough to get it up on the bed of the truck. Take the head off and it is fairly easy, but, I am only 65

From Ford brochure:
Maximum capabilities shown are for properly equipped vehicles with required equipment and a 150-lb. driver.

Make sure that the vehicle payload (reduced by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue load weight and the weight of passengers and cargo added to the towing vehicle. [Note that driver is not included here]

For fifth wheels: Trailer kingpin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight [At least 15%, mine was usually closer to 20% but I could also rearrange things to lighten that up a bit]

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by vcbice

LOL, yeah I picked up my B&W hitch one time, just once Could not lift it high enough to get it up on the bed of the truck. Take the head off and it is fairly easy, but, I am only 65

Yup, mines probably 140-150lb. I put my arms under the head and grab the legs and I can lift it in the garage and carry it out to put on the tailgate. I've decided that was fine when I was younger (last yr) but now I'm just about to be 62 and not wanting to ruin a hernia repair.