Generator for Home Use & RV

[bleckb]

Hi all,

Maybe more than a little off topic, but since there is so much generator knowledge here, I figured I'd ask.

We just had a 30-amp plug installed so we can run a charger if/when we lose power at home. We have a Champion 3500 for the trailer, but it doesn't have a 240-volt outlet. From what I can tell, We won't be going more than 6500 watts as that gets us pretty close to the 30-amp max of of the plug and outlet.

I'm not sure whether I want to go dual-fuel but I'm open to that given that we have several fire pits, bbqs and the trailer to swap a tank with, along with gas from mowers and such.

Fundamentally, what would you suggest I look for when shopping for a generator for the house, one that won't likely, but could, do double duty with the trailer. About all I can say, somewhat for sure, is I won't be going Honda due to the price.

Thanks,

[cekkk]

I'm the last to advise you on your question but I expect you'll be getting answers from several members. But I would ask why you are looking for 240 voltage outlet. Aren't the household appliances you'd run on a generator 120 v?

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by cekkk

I'm the last to advise you on your question but I expect you'll be getting answers from several members. But I would ask why you are looking for 240 voltage outlet. Aren't the household appliances you'd run on a generator 120 v?

Depends on what he needs to run. My well pumps at my house are 240v for example.

[Siamese]

Not sure what you mean by having a 30 amp plug installed. It's important that you have a separate panel installed running off your main panel if you want to feed your house with generator power during an outage. The panel allows only certain circuits (fridge, furnace, modem, some lights, etc.) to function so there's no possibility of overloading the generator. It also serves to isolate the circuits, otherwise, you could be running your generator and feeding power back into the grid, and zap the guy on the power pole trying to fix things.

These panels are only a couple hundred bucks.

I installed a panel for my house, and recently did another for a friend. The panel came with clear instructions, and of course there are vids on youtube.

Why do you need 240volt? The only reason I can think of is if you have your own well, and the pump need 240v. Please clarify.

On my 6 circuit panel, two of the circuits can be linked together to provide 240 volts. I have city water, so it wasn't an issue, but my friend's install required it for his well. Easy.

When the power goes out, I hook up the generator, flip the circuits to generator, and turn on a light in the living room that's not powered by the generator. As soon as that light goes on, I know that the power's back on.

I have a Home Depot construction type (noisy) generator that puts out about 6000 watts and handles how modest home. That's really all I use it for. Reliable, inexpensive, and noisy.

For the trailer, I just have a quiet, 2000w inverter generator that does everything but run the AC (we don't camp in hot weather).

[cekkk]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

Depends on what he needs to run. My well pumps at my house are 240v for example.

As did mine. I thought I accounted for that in my wording. Most folks want lights and refrigeration, nor an electric water heater or electric dryer. Judicious use of water will let you get by with the reserve in the pressure tank. We lived basically in a NF at 9000' for 19 years and had plenty of opportunities to run off our generator..

[bleckb]

Originally Posted by cekkk

I'm the last to advise you on your question but I expect you'll be getting answers from several members. But I would ask why you are looking for 240 voltage outlet. Aren't the household appliances you'd run on a generator 120 v?

I didn't bother to ask, but the electrician who installed the outlet said we needed 240 volts and I didn't question him. Maybe not the best reason, and maybe the worst, but that's where we are.

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by cekkk

As did mine. I thought I accounted for that in my wording. Most folks want lights and refrigeration, nor an electric water heater or electric dryer. Judicious use of water will let you get by with the reserve in the pressure tank. We lived basically in a NF at 9000' for 19 years and had plenty of opportunities to run off our generator..

Sorry, I didn't gather that from your original post.

I have my wells, and a couple af outlets (fridge and freezer) wired through my transfer switch. Even with my storage tanks, I've had to run our wells during outages many times. Of course, I've got 7 people here so my water use may be different than yours.

[bleckb]

Originally Posted by Siamese

Not sure what you mean by having a 30 amp plug installed. It's important that you have a separate panel installed running off your main panel if you want to feed your house with generator power during an outage.

The electrician said we could go with 30 or 50 amps with each requiring a different plug type for the outlet on the outside of the house where we will run the generator.

That 30-amp plug is wired into our main breaker box. We must first shut off the main switch so as not to kill anyone and also allow activation of the 240-volt breaker switch that was previously unused. We flip the main switch off, slide up a plate to lock it, activate the 240-volt breaker, then turn on the generator.

It will be up to us to not overload the generator. We have gas for heat and heating water, plus gas stove, so we should be okay.

[Siamese]

I'm a little surprised an electrician would want to wire a plug like that for you given the low cost of a proper sub panel.

It's 240 volt and somehow feeds into your main panel? Not being an electrician (just a DIY'er) I don't know how he would have configured it.

As you said, you'll want to remember to turn off the main breaker when you use it. If it's daytime (no streetlights), there may be some challenge in knowing when the power comes back on, as you have the breakers off. You'd have to keep calling and checking, or have a neighbor call you when it's on again.

This is a panel very similar to what I installed. I suppose I'm thrashing this poor dead horsey, but your electrician ought to explain what he was doing. Not up to code in most places.

[2naEagle]

Originally Posted by bleckb

The electrician said we could go with 30 or 50 amps with each requiring a different plug type for the outlet on the outside of the house where we will run the generator.

That 30-amp plug is wired into our main breaker box. We must first shut off the main switch so as not to kill anyone and also allow activation of the 240-volt breaker switch that was previously unused. We flip the main switch off, slide up a plate to lock it, activate the 240-volt breaker, then turn on the generator.

It will be up to us to not overload the generator. We have gas for heat and heating water, plus gas stove, so we should be okay.

The plate is a generator bypass or interlock kit I put one on my daughter's house. https://www.amazon.com/Square-Schnei.../dp/B00CONDIGO. We got a Champion generator from Costco.
https://www.championpowerequipment.c...uel-generator/
You just have to be power conscious and understand what you can and can't do.
It has come in very handy for her.

As for me I have a natural gas whole house automatic change over standby generator.

[bleckb]

Originally Posted by Siamese

I'm a little surprised an electrician would want to wire a plug like that for you given the low cost of a proper sub panel.

It's 240 volt and somehow feeds into your main panel? Not being an electrician (just a DIY'er) I don't know how he would have configured it..

It could be because there wasn't a lot of physical space for a sub-panel and there was free space in the panel. The 240 does feed into the main panel, and like you, I don't know how or what they did. I don't mind doing small electrical stuff, but when it comes to the breaker box and main connection, I figure it's best to leave it to the pros. I've no doubt it's up to code because we had them do some other work previously, and in discussing what could and couldn't be done, they always defaulted to code and safety.

[bleckb]

Originally Posted by 2naEagle

The plate is a generator bypass or interlock kit I put one on my daughter's house. . . .

As for me I have a natural gas whole house automatic change over standby generator.

Thanks. For the life of me, I couldn't remember it was a bypass/interlock. I don't expect we'll be going full natural gas since plumbing a line to the generator space would likely cost more than it is worth.

Our last extended power outage was a few years ago from a windstorm that devastated the area. This is a "better safe than sorry" option, not one we expect to or plan to use much. Once every few years perhaps.

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by bleckb

Hi all,

Maybe more than a little off topic, but since there is so much generator knowledge here, I figured I'd ask.

We just had a 30-amp plug installed so we can run a charger if/when we lose power at home. We have a Champion 3500 for the trailer, but it doesn't have a 240-volt outlet. From what I can tell, We won't be going more than 6500 watts as that gets us pretty close to the 30-amp max of of the plug and outlet.

I'm not sure whether I want to go dual-fuel but I'm open to that given that we have several fire pits, bbqs and the trailer to swap a tank with, along with gas from mowers and such.

Fundamentally, what would you suggest I look for when shopping for a generator for the house, one that won't likely, but could, do double duty with the trailer. About all I can say, somewhat for sure, is I won't be going Honda due to the price.

Thanks,

bleckb, I read through all the posts and I think what you are asking is What size generator do I need to power my house? If you have a 30A, 240V connection, you will need at least an 8kW generator figure that out at a 10% overload so 33Amps x 240Volts = 7920W or 7.92kW Now, if you can get by with only 120V, you will need a 4kW unit 33A x 120V = 3960W or 3.96kW The 240V model will likely be an open frame style and be too noisy to use for camping unless boondocking in the middle of nowhere. I believe you can get a 4kW inverter style which is very quiet and would work well for either application. An additional point to note with the open frame style, if you are planning to run your tv, computer & microwave you can have serious stability problems with the frequency and voltage, since they are regulated mechanically based on the rpm of the engine. This instability can damage the electronics. Inverter style generators are not as dependent on the engine rpm and are generally stable in output Voltage and frequency, thus safe for the electronics. If you use an open frame generator larger than 15kW, the stability is much improved over the smaller units.
I have a 10kW OF for backup at my home and I lost some electronics when the 4 ton A/C cycled off. This was after hurricane Katrina, during the clean-up. The fridge and freezer survived just fine, running on the generator for over a month. I also have a 3500W Predator inverter generator for camping use ... it is rated at 57dB, but that 10Kw Gentron is rated at 78dB. You can hold a conversation over the Predator without shouting, but you need to yell to talk over the Gentron.
Good Camping, .. Jim

[grimeshaus]

There is a product called "Generlink" sold by Home Depot and others that fits between your power company meter and your main power panel. You simply plug the 220 twist lock plug into it and fire up your genny, automatically prevents feedback into the grid and supplies the link to your power panel. They unfortunately have been disallowed by our local power company because they don't want anything on their meter. They are proven safe and allowed in most applications but do your homework before you take the plunge, VERY convenient. Generator size would of course have to match your needs.

[bleckb]

Yes, size was part of what I was originally asking about. I'm also wondering about dual fuel, knowing that most of them seem to provide less power when running on propane. The upside of propane is I have a bbq and fire pit at home that run on propane, as well as the trailer propane, that I could use if I ran out of gas. If power is out in a widespread fashion, I don't know that I would be able to get gas at a gas station. I don't care much about the noise given where the generator will be located, though I don't want to rattle the windows either.

So, yeah, trying to think all of these things through before spending however many hundreds of dollars I'll have to spend to have a generator do more sitting around than anything, until I need it and will be glad I have it.

[bleckb]

Originally Posted by grimeshaus

There is a product called "Generlink" sold by Home Depot and others that fits between your power company meter and your main power panel. You simply plug the 220 twist lock plug into it and fire up your genny, automatically prevents feedback into the grid and supplies the link to your power panel. They unfortunately have been disallowed by our local power company because they don't want anything on their meter..

Just looked at those. Only a bit cheaper than what we had installed. I can see why the power company wouldn't like it though. I don't know if it's up to our local codes.

[Big1]

Originally Posted by Siamese

Not sure what you mean by having a 30 amp plug installed. It's important that you have a separate panel installed running off your main panel if you want to feed your house with generator power during an outage. The panel allows only certain circuits (fridge, furnace, modem, some lights, etc.) to function so there's no possibility of overloading the generator. It also serves to isolate the circuits, otherwise, you could be running your generator and feeding power back into the grid, and zap the guy on the power pole trying to fix things.

These panels are only a couple hundred bucks.

I installed a panel for my house, and recently did another for a friend. The panel came with clear instructions, and of course there are vids on youtube.

Why do you need 240volt? The only reason I can think of is if you have your own well, and the pump need 240v. Please clarify.

On my 6 circuit panel, two of the circuits can be linked together to provide 240 volts. I have city water, so it wasn't an issue, but my friend's install required it for his well. Easy.

When the power goes out, I hook up the generator, flip the circuits to generator, and turn on a light in the living room that's not powered by the generator. As soon as that light goes on, I know that the power's back on.

I have a Home Depot construction type (noisy) generator that puts out about 6000 watts and handles how modest home. That's really all I use it for. Reliable, inexpensive, and noisy.

For the trailer, I just have a quiet, 2000w inverter generator that does everything but run the AC (we don't camp in hot weather).

What Siamese said, I have a panel that was install by my j-box to use when I have to use my generator ( don't have one yet). When you run a generator for your house you will have to turn off your j-box for your house.

If you want to use your 3500 generator you will only be able to run your important items, like ref, and maybe some lights.

[Screwby]

Another option to reach the higher wattage your looking for and still be able to use it for camping as well is to buy two of the 3500w Champions and run them in series if you need. You’d be able to keep one at home and keep one with the camper. If higher wattage is needed for the home in an emergency you could then hook them together and run them in series in effect having a 7000w generator. I like a setup like this if your not looking to spend a ton of cash on an awesome permenant backup system. Also the mindset of “two is one and one is none” covers you in case a generator crapped out on you in an emergency. You’d still have one working to run the essentials because the likelihood of both going down simultaneously is slim to none. I love the dual fuel option because there is always a bottle of LP around especially in a camper or BBQ grill. The LP hardly has any odor when running and a 20lb bottle ran mine for 14hrs straight last time I used it.

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by bleckb

Yes, size was part of what I was originally asking about. I'm also wondering about dual fuel, knowing that most of them seem to provide less power when running on propane. The upside of propane is I have a bbq and fire pit at home that run on propane, as well as the trailer propane, that I could use if I ran out of gas. If power is out in a widespread fashion, I don't know that I would be able to get gas at a gas station. I don't care much about the noise given where the generator will be located, though I don't want to rattle the windows either.

So, yeah, trying to think all of these things through before spending however many hundreds of dollars I'll have to spend to have a generator do more sitting around than anything, until I need it and will be glad I have it.

bleckb,
If you plan to run on propane, you may want to upsize the generator to compensate for the output power loss. Running the unit on propane has an advantage of not having a gummed up carburetor to worry about. Invariably, if you run on gasoline, you will end up with having residual gas in the tank and the carburetor. This gas, especially with any ethanol content, will end up contaminating the carburetor (possibly corroding it) unless you keep the remaining fuel well stabilized. As far as price goes, I paid less than $950 on my 10kW Gentron unit right after hurricane Katrina, I did a google search and see where Amazon had them listed for $799 + free shipping (If you order this one, be sure you have 4 big guys to help unload the pallet from the delivery truck... it weighs over 200#'s) https://www.amazon.com/Gentron-10000.../dp/B008QVAETM. You would need to add a propane conversion kit to make it run on propane Here is one for $159 https://www.amazon.com/Predator-Prop...conversion+kit
There are a number of other brands out there, the lowest cost generators all have Chinese engines, the Gentron uses a J.D. Engine which is a Chinese Honda clone. Harbor Freight also sells some very reliable units at slightly better prices, plus you may find them on sale periodically for an even better deal. The largest I see listed on their website is a 9kW which will produce 7250W continuously for $699.99
Good luck with your project & Good Camping, ....... Jim

[GHen]

We have a local gas station that has premium with no ethanal. Great for all limited use motors, chain saw, lawn mower, boat, and of course the generator.

Since we are in an earthquake area in the Northwest, we avoid the natural gas generators, want to make sure I have power when the big one hits.