Jayco Quality and Tire Failure

[Retired17]

Originally Posted by rkresge

I don't want to criticize, but I don't see any mention of a TPMS. Without one, you would have almost no way of knowing you had a flat tire back there, which eventually can disintegrate and shred everything around it. No TPMS also means you have no chance to find out what might have caused the flat in the first place. I had a flat on my 23RLSW in April, a puncture from road debris just as I was getting on I95. My TPMS alerted me instantly about the pressure loss, and I was able to get off the road before any damage. I can just imagine what might have happened if I had gotten up to speed on I95 with one of my trailer's tires flat.


Even though you check your tire pressure and limit your speed, you never know when something else is going to happen. I recommend a TPMS.


Good camping!


Roger

I will look into TPMS; but, after thousands of miles on boats, pop ups and other trailers, I'm placing blame on the "C load factor - Chinese tires". Looks like the damage is not as bad as I feared which brings me back to the rest of my post.

The whole bathroom is falling apart, continuously and they can't find the leaks in the roof! Other items as well. As I stated, Jayco quality seems to have eluded me and my WH. This thing has to stop living at the Dealer!

[Atlee]

Jayco started putting Goodyear Endurance tires on their trailers some time in the middle of the 2017 model year. My 2017 23RB was built in February of 2017 and it had the Endurance tires.

In fact on Jayco's site where you can "build" the trailer you want, for example select the options you want, and then get a final MSRP sans shipping, Jayco added a line item for Endurance tires with the note they were a "mandatory" option.

Now that line item doesn't exist, I believe. The cost of the OEM Endurance is built into the base MSRP.

Originally Posted by Retired17

The data sticker on the side of the camper says 12/16. Not really a new camper when I bought it in 12/17...

[Atlee]

That dealer is an unscrupulous thief. That's a dealer that should be reported to Jayco because it gives Jayco a bad name.

And talk about ripping folks off. Remove the OEM Endurance, and put on a cheap set of knockoffs, in the hopes of selling back to the buyer the tires that were originally on the trailer.

Originally Posted by ifallsguy

Some of the new units do ship with Goodyear Endurance stickers. But while looking at an RV show and found a few with the stickers but saw other OEM tires on them. Salesman said "we changed out the tires so when the units sell, the buyer will have new, unused tires". He failed to explain how they would be unused since they left the factory on the tires which were removed.

Stopped at the same dealer about 2 weeks later, when traveling back home after a trip, and saw the same unit (checked VIN which I photographed at the RV show), wrong tires still on it and asked a different salesman about it. Told "the factory puts the Goodyear stickers on all their trailers even if they have different tires on them. But we can sell you the Goodyears at a very good price". Trailer manufacturer said all shipped on Goodyears when I checked the next day.


Moral of this: always check everything when buying a unit. Verify it has the tires that were shipped by the factory and you expect to be on it.

And FYI, this was not a CW store.

[ifallsguy]

Originally Posted by Retired17

I will look into TPMS; but, after thousands of miles on boats, pop ups and other trailers, I'm placing blame on the "C load factor - Chinese tires". Looks like the damage is not as bad as I feared which brings me back to the rest of my post.

The whole bathroom is falling apart, continuously and they can't find the leaks in the roof! Other items as well. As I stated, Jayco quality seems to have eluded me and my WH. This thing has to stop living at the Dealer!

Call Jayco and tell them you want it repaired at the factory as the dealer cannot seem to do it.

[norty1]

I always thought it was a way to reduce the cost and be competitive by putting the least amount of tire to carry the load. Most campers are designed with the same thought in mind IMO. Minimum axles, minimum suspension, tires etc.

The problem an overloaded axle will not show up on the first trip but tires are the weak point. Anytime I can get a better tire or a higher load range that will run on my rig, I am better off.

I don't take that to mean I can load some more into the rig, just that I have a higher margin and less chance of trouble down the road.


Weghing your rig when loaded for a trip is the best way to open your eyes as to what your rig and tv are carrying.

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by Retired17

I will look into TPMS; but, after thousands of miles on boats, pop ups and other trailers, I'm placing blame on the "C load factor - Chinese tires". Looks like the damage is not as bad as I feared which brings me back to the rest of my post.

The whole bathroom is falling apart, continuously and they can't find the leaks in the roof! Other items as well. As I stated, Jayco quality seems to have eluded me and my WH. This thing has to stop living at the Dealer!

I would almost guarantee that the OEM tires have a load rating that matches or slightly exceeds the GVWR of the trailer, less the expected tongue weight not carried on the tires. Normal for the RV business, no matter who you buy from. Hard to see the problem here.


See if you can catch up with Roger Marble, on here as "tireman9" - he knows everything there is to know about RV tires, and you can read his stuff at rvtiresafety.net.



I am truly sorry about your other issues. That stuff just sucks.


Good luck.


Roger

[Retired17]

Originally Posted by rkresge

I would almost guarantee that the OEM tires have a load rating that matches or slightly exceeds the GVWR of the trailer, less the expected tongue weight not carried on the tires. Normal for the RV business, no matter who you buy from. Hard to see the problem here.


See if you can catch up with Roger Marble, on here as "tireman9" - he knows everything there is to know about RV tires, and you can read his stuff at rvtiresafety.net.



I am truly sorry about your other issues. That stuff just sucks.


Good luck.


Roger

FYI the link is not working and I'm not finding a way to locate tireman9. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by Retired17

FYI the link is not working and I'm not finding a way to locate tireman9. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Wow, I did 2 mistakes for the price of one!


The link is fixed. I should have cut and pasted, instead of typing it directly.



Also, it didn't dawn on me that tireman9 doesn't hang around here. He's active on IRV2, which has an almost identical look and feel to this Jayco site. Easy to get them mixed up sometimes.


Again, good luck!


Roger

[norty1]

It still goes nowhere for me.

[rkresge]

Try this link to Roger Marble's RV tire blog:


RV Tire Safety


I edited and tested the original link after editing, and it worked. Go figure. Hopefully this link will work.


Roger

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by Retired17

I purchased my 2017 Whitehawk 11 months ago. The trailer has been returned to the dealer on 4 prior occasions with leaking roof, and the interior and windows just seem to fall apart. On my way home from a Thanksgiving trip on 11/25/18, a blow out (tire/Chinese Bomb) took out the works for my dinette slide. I have a destroyed rim and a lot of collateral damage to the trailer.

.....


I feel like Jayco quality has eluded me and I may have a lemon. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

So you purchased a trailer that had been sitting for quite a while. You had roof issues, but you don't say what they were. Jayco requires owners to inspect and re-caulk the roof to wall joints every 3 months. Any idea if your dealer maintained those joints while the trailer sat on their lot? How many times have YOU maintained those joints in your 11 months of ownership? I can't give intelligent advice about Jayco quality if I don't know the quality of maintenance that was done after the product left the facility.


In terms of tire blow out, again, I cannot give any intelligent advice without knowing more. Do you check tire pressure every day before you drive? Did you hit any road hazard that caused a catastrophic failure? I keep hearing about "China bombs" on RV forums, but I have never once had a problem with any trailer tires I've ever bought. My last trailer had 8 year old tires before I replaced, no issues. My Jayco tires were almost 4 years old when I replaced them this fall, and they were worn almost to the wear bars. I always check tire pressure AND I use an IR gun to check hub and tire temps when I stop for fuel.


By the way, I paid a little over $500 for 4 new Goodyear Endurance LRE tires this fall, straight from Goodyear, including installation. There are deals to be had.


Nothing about your issues lead me to believe its a JAYCO issue, not a lemon issue. It sounds like lack of maintenance for the roof and unknown cause on the tire. RV's require maintenance.

[Retired17]

I found Roger's site, he's currently at rvtiresaftey.net. This site seems awesome! Some have commented negatively about the dealer who is Vogt RV in Ft. Worth, Tx. These guys are the only ones in my court. Initially spoke with Sam, a female customer service agent at Jayco who was very surly. Next I spoke with Jody who was also very surly. Finally, I got a call today from Sean a senior customer service rep who completely absolved Jayco and the tires from any and all interest in my tire problems. We're gonna see about this 2 year Jayco warranty and the dealer's forever warranty. I still have 12 months to go on the Jayco Warranty.

On learning that Jayco just doesn't care, I did not even bring up my leaking roof, broken window operating systems and the interior generally falling apart. My trailer just turned 11months old. On my October 2018 trip, the bathroom is completely falling apart. I will not own another Jayco or any Chinese tires. Again, my dealer is my only friend in this!

This WH 24MBH trailer is nicely laid out, just what we were looking for and we were very proud our purchase, even bragged on it. Today, I'm not sure this is even a LEMON.

[Retired17]

Spoon,

Yes Jayco's dealer sold me a year end trailer in 2017. The roof leaked, soaked a wall and three streams of water came running out from under the cabinet during a very gentle rain. The leaks occurred 5 days after inspection by the dealer who advised no additional sealant was needed. Additional sealant was placed in the roof on it's return 2 weeks after the leaks.

I knew I had Chinese Bombs and check tire pressure religiously, constantly! These tires just turned over 4,000 miles and look almost new. I was going to replace the tires after the first of 2019, I thought it reasonable my Bombs would last at least a year, again constantly checking tire pressure. The $600 tire price is for 5 tires.

I never intended for my post to be a legal dissertation, just information and I do appreciate the positive comments that I have received. Never felt a need to swear an oath to a forum. By the way, you just don't need to question each item and the issues are purely Chinese Tire and Jayco quality (quality is still under warranty for another year). Are you having a bad day or is this normal? We could do a Q and A offline; but, I'm not interested.

Regards,
Retired17

[Dougvtx]

As for my wife and I, we would not use the words "QUALITY" and "JAYCO" in the same sentence.

I've just about to reach my limit with mine.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by Retired17

On learning that Jayco just doesn't care, I did not even bring up my leaking roof, broken window operating systems and the interior generally falling apart.

...

Are you having a bad day or is this normal? We could do a Q and A offline; but, I'm not interested.

Regards,
Retired17

Nope... not a bad day, pretty normal for me. I just like to gather facts before jumping to a conclusion, hence the questions about each individual problem of which you complain. Its a terrible character trait, gathering facts, I know. So many people act upon emotion, it must frustrate them when I appeal to fact.

You still haven't answered... did the dealer maintain the roof joints before you purchased? If no, then its not a MANUFACTURING issue (Jayco), its a DEALER issue. Why would Jayco have to fix something that either the dealer or owner failed to maintain? By the way, if the dealer determined "no additional sealant was needed", then why did they later add additional sealant? What sort of testing or inspection did they do to determine the need, or lack thereof, for additional sealant? Obviously the water came from SOMEWHERE, so if the dealer did a pressure test they should have easily been able to find the source of the leak and either fixed it or showed you the area to allow you to fix it yourself.

Why are you so grumpy at Jayco when, by your own admission, you didn't even bring it to their attention? You didn't even give them a chance to remedy the situation. I'm just curious why you are eviscerating Jayco the manufacturer, yet delighted with your dealer. Seems likely the dealer didn't maintain the trailer over the year it sat on their lot and the dealer didn't properly diagnose the leak 5 days before you saw the leak. Further, I can imagine that tires sitting out in the Texas sun for over a year without moving could have caused an issue with your tires. Reading tips from a major tire manufacturer they discuss keeping tires out of the sun, away from heat and not letting them sit for extended periods of time. Doing any of those leads to the tires drying prematurely. Doing all 3 while a camper sits for a year in Dallas isn't a recipe for long life either.


I don't think Jayco is the greatest thing ever. There were some warranty issues on my camper, but Jayco and my dealer were excellent and fixed them for me under warranty. I also maintain my camper per the manual, so that helps too.

[Retired17]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Nope... not a bad day, pretty normal for me. I just like to gather facts before jumping to a conclusion, hence the questions about each individual problem of which you complain. Its a terrible character trait, gathering facts, I know. So many people act upon emotion, it must frustrate them when I appeal to fact.

You still haven't answered... did the dealer maintain the roof joints before you purchased? If no, then its not a MANUFACTURING issue (Jayco), its a DEALER issue. Why would Jayco have to fix something that either the dealer or owner failed to maintain? By the way, if the dealer determined "no additional sealant was needed", then why did they later add additional sealant? What sort of testing or inspection did they do to determine the need, or lack thereof, for additional sealant? Obviously the water came from SOMEWHERE, so if the dealer did a pressure test they should have easily been able to find the source of the leak and either fixed it or showed you the area to allow you to fix it yourself.

Why are you so grumpy at Jayco when, by your own admission, you didn't even bring it to their attention? You didn't even give them a chance to remedy the situation. I'm just curious why you are eviscerating Jayco the manufacturer, yet delighted with your dealer. Seems likely the dealer didn't maintain the trailer over the year it sat on their lot and the dealer didn't properly diagnose the leak 5 days before you saw the leak. Further, I can imagine that tires sitting out in the Texas sun for over a year without moving could have caused an issue with your tires. Reading tips from a major tire manufacturer they discuss keeping tires out of the sun, away from heat and not letting them sit for extended periods of time. Doing any of those leads to the tires drying prematurely. Doing all 3 while a camper sits for a year in Dallas isn't a recipe for long life either.


I don't think Jayco is the greatest thing ever. There were some warranty issues on my camper, but Jayco and my dealer were excellent and fixed them for me under warranty. I also maintain my camper per the manual, so that helps too.

Spoon,

You make one good point. My trailer was manufactured in 12/16 and sold as a 2017. It did sit in the Tx sun for almost a year. This with CHINESE BOMBS is something I will press the dealer on, including the mileage transporting the trailer to Tx. The rest of the maintenance on my trailer is on the money, including tire pressures. Jayco and the dealer are handling all of the warranty items as they come up, over and over. I have another years worth of warranty courtesy of Jayco. Further, I have pulleds boats, pop ups, Boy Scout trailers, uhaul trailers, farm trailers....... I'm 66 years old and this is literally my first and only blow out and it happened 30 minutes from my home. The last tire pressure check was 1 hour earlier, 60 miles prior after the tires cooled while we ate dinner. Pressure was 50# COLD, as required by the manufacturer.

[spoon059]

So Jayco is working on fixing the other issues. I must have misunderstood, I thought you said they weren't helping you, then I thought you said you never even brought it to their attention.

It sucks that you had a leak, but they are authorizing your dealer to work on it. I would be surprised if your dealer actually maintained the roof caulk every 3 months while it sat on the lot for a year. I would guess that the leak occurred because of that. Again though... a simple pressure test would show any area that would cause a leak.

Tires are a difficult beast. Hundreds of thousands of trailers (boat, RV, cargo, landscape, motorcycle, etc) are out there with cheaper Chinese tires. The overwhelming majority don't have major issues. I had a tire failure on my SUV years ago, with a TPMS sensor. I have no idea what happened, but Firestone denied my warranty claim by saying it appeared as though I struck an unknown road hazard, causing the damage. It wasn't worth fighting and I didn't like Firestone tires anyways... I swapped all my tires out for some All Terrain TA's. I'm guessing very, very few trailer owners get warranty replacements after a tire blowout. Be it a Jayco or an Airstream... unlikely to happen.

So between an issue that is likely maintenance related (leak) and a faulty tire, you are blaming Jayco. I am more likely to blame maintenance (either you or the dealer who had it for a year) and just plain poor luck, rather than Jayco.

Take it for what its worth. I love my Jayco, I think it is great quality for the price point. Its not a $100,000 RV and its not a cheap Keystone or Forest River product either. Having walked through hundreds of trailers at shows before buying, I truly felt (and still feel) that Jayco Jayflight line is of higher quality than any other manufacturer at the same price point.

I'm sorry your experience isn't the same, but I disagree as to where the blame lies. Good luck with your camper, I would likely be frustrated with leaks too.

[RAurand]

Originally Posted by ifallsguy

Some of the new units do ship with Goodyear Endurance stickers. But while looking at an RV show and found a few with the stickers but saw other OEM tires on them. Salesman said "we changed out the tires so when the units sell, the buyer will have new, unused tires". He failed to explain how they would be unused since they left the factory on the tires which were removed.

Stopped at the same dealer about 2 weeks later, when traveling back home after a trip, and saw the same unit (checked VIN which I photographed at the RV show), wrong tires still on it and asked a different salesman about it. Told "the factory puts the Goodyear stickers on all their trailers even if they have different tires on them. But we can sell you the Goodyears at a very good price". Trailer manufacturer said all shipped on Goodyears when I checked the next day.


Moral of this: always check everything when buying a unit. Verify it has the tires that were shipped by the factory and you expect to be on it.

And FYI, this was not a CW store.

So, what did the dealer say when you told them you called the manufacturer and were told ALL shipped with Good Year??

[Retired17]

As I understand Goodyear came mid-year in 2017. My trailer was manufactured in 12/16, sold as a 2017. Sat in the sun in Ft Worth and Indiana for basically a year. Jayco has confirmed the trailer was delivered to the dealer with "Provider" CHINESE BOMBS. So, Goodyear came after my trailer was built.

[Thighmaster]

Originally Posted by norty1

I always thought it was a way to reduce the cost and be competitive by putting the least amount of tire to carry the load. Most campers are designed with the same thought in mind IMO. Minimum axles, minimum suspension, tires etc.



The problem an overloaded axle will not show up on the first trip but tires are the weak point. Anytime I can get a better tire or a higher load range that will run on my rig, I am better off.



I don't take that to mean I can load some more into the rig, just that I have a higher margin and less chance of trouble down the road.





Weghing your rig when loaded for a trip is the best way to open your eyes as to what your rig and tv are carrying.

How do you measure tongue weight?