Jayco Quality Workmanship???

[vcbice]

Yep, I would not be concerned with having a dealer close by either. Lazy Daze has a really loyal following with that approach.

If I was going to pay twice or three times as much for a trailer I'd certainly expect much better quality.

[kneeslider]

Jayco Quality Workmanship is an oxymoron. They build to many to fast. It like nearly everything else, it is all about the bottom line!

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by vcbice

Yep, I would not be concerned with having a dealer close by either. Lazy Daze has a really loyal following with that approach.

If I was going to pay twice or three times as much for a trailer I'd certainly expect much better quality.

Bigfoot, Oliver, ORV, etc. have MSRP in the ("well-dressed") Eagle range. Some of them, like ORV Black Rock and Creekside and Northwood Nash, are priced like Jay Feathers and Jay Flights. The ORV Timber Ridge and Northwood Arctic Fox Classic are in the range of White Hawk models. The ORV Blackstone and Northwood Arctic Fox Silver are akin to Eagles in pricing. We almost pulled the trigger on a Nash that was priced just below our Jay Feather. Regrettably, we fell for the dealer delusion.

Most of the higher trim levels sticker (depending on the model) between $42-60k. We are looking at them as potential retirement units. They get marked down as well, but their discounting is not as drastic as mass-produced makes that are marketed with highly inflated MSRP; the manufacturers use the high MSRP as a ploy to dazzle buyers with "deep discounts" and "special" pricing when in actuality they are intentionally way over priced to begin with as a marketing tool. Many of the makes with much lower production numbers and higher quality do not have the same marketing margins to titillate consumers.

Every make is going to have problems. I guess the hope is that you get fewer with the makes that are not slammed out, and one expects that the problems are not derelictions of enormous negligence and disregard for process and material selection that one finds with the slam-bam makes.

[Watsons]

Originally Posted by kneeslider

Jayco Quality Workmanship is an oxymoron. They build to many to fast. It like nearly everything else, it is all about the bottom line!

Yep, we should have run the other way after we watched the factory video where the workers are running down the side of the floor with the staple gun hitting random spots along the way while others run around in the background.
I think the producers got it wrong. Jayco should be showing us slow, meticulous work being done to give us a sense of false hope instead of showing us the real deal. Guess can't knock them for that...

[norty1]

Originally Posted by Watsons

Yep, we should have run the other way after we watched the factory video where the workers are running down the side of the floor with the staple gun hitting random spots along the way while others run around in the background.
I think the producers got it wrong. Jayco should be showing us slow, meticulous work being done to give us a sense of false hope instead of showing us the real deal. Guess can't knock them for that...

I guess you know that video was altered to speed it up.

[2edgesword]

I think the onus regarding quality comes down to the dealer and buyer. The dealer has to demand that the factory doesn't deliver junk to them. They are experts and should be going through every unit delivered to them to spot, correct and report back to Jayco "issues" they uncover. While Jayco's reputation is on the line the dealer's reputation is also on the line.

Beyond the dealer the buyer has an obligation to educate themselves about RV manufacturing pitfalls, do a thorough PDI, refuse to hand over a check until all issues are fixed and in the extreme be prepared to walk away from a deal. If more dealers and buyers did this I think it would have an impact on the manufacturers.

[Watsons]

Originally Posted by norty1

I guess you know that video was altered to speed it up.

Nice suggestion but that wasn't the case in the video I watched..(wish it was).

None the less...we all know that quality is a big issue with the RV industry but we choose to spend our money regardless. (personal choices)

Is is discouraging when you thought you had looked your new RV over with a fine tooth comb and then you find surprises...you bet it is.

Will it discourage me from enjoying the great times we are able to have because we have chosen to own an RV?...NO.

Sooo..I guess in closing, I had my little rant about punching holes in the walls and maybe came across a bit harsh and unrealistic on expectations.
I'm sure we will find other flaws as we always have with our other RV's, but...we will enjoy the heck outta hitting the trail and overlook the small things in life while we enjoy a fantastic floor plan, huge fresh water tank, large bedroom and bathroom, huge fridge, great furnace, ample storage etc, etc, and an industry leading 2 year warranty.

Cheers to all and actually happy to be in the Jayco family..

[Murff]

[QUOTE=Tunce the traveler;650881]

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

I hear you on the slide out situation, but I am not ruling out a Bigfoot, Oliver, or an Escape. Right now of the three, I would go with a Bigfoot 2500 series. At lest the Bigfoots are 8'4" in width and a bit longer than the Escape and Oliver. If they would make a 30' unit, I would be sold, even without a slide out. I'd like a front lounge 30' Bigfoot, please!

The Bigfoot I'm looking at is the 25B25RT and I'm going up there the middle of next month for the second time. The 2 beds workouts out great for us and I need to build a platform between the 2 for Tunce to rest on because she's on Guard duty at night. We've had 1 bad experience and since then she won't sleep soundly when we're asleep. I pity the fool that turns that door knob when we're sleeping, other than that she's the gentle giant.

YIKES! Bring a wheelbarrow full of $$$$!!

http://www.apachecamping.com/default...&sq=big%20foot

Murff

[gypsmjim]

Thirty four years ago I bought a boat. Still have it. It was top of the line and it cost $11,500. Never had a bit of problems with it. This year my son bought a new boat. OK, it was a little bigger, but it cost $96,000.

My original RV was a 1964. It cost $1,500 new. Still have it too, and it still works, albeit a little seedy around the edges.

Last year my wife's car cost $43,000. This year my car cost $52,000. Both have been trouble free so far.

Three years ago our Jayco cost about $13,000. It had a bad fuse, a lumpy mattress and a leaky faucet. I fixed all of that at my own cost. All in all it was a bargain.

A similar RV to mine made by Airstream costs about 3 times as much. Willing to pay $45,000 for a 19 footer? Or, are they really any better anyway?

You get what you pay for. If all you are willing to spend is what a Jayco costs, don't complain. And you must remember, as long as we all continue to buy them they will not improve.

[Watsons]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

Thirty four years ago I bought a boat. Still have it. It was top of the line and it cost $11,500. Never had a bit of problems with it. This year my son bought a new boat. OK, it was a little bigger, but it cost $96,000.

My original RV was a 1964. It cost $1,500 new. Still have it too, and it still works, albeit a little seedy around the edges.

Last year my wife's car cost $43,000. This year my car cost $52,000. Both have been trouble free so far.

Three years ago our Jayco cost about $13,000. It had a bad fuse, a lumpy mattress and a leaky faucet. I fixed all of that at my own cost. All in all it was a bargain.

A similar RV to mine made by Airstream costs about 3 times as much. Willing to pay $45,000 for a 19 footer? Or, are they really any better anyway?

You get what you pay for. If all you are willing to spend is what a Jayco costs, don't complain. And you must remember, as long as we all continue to buy them they will not improve.

Mr. Gypsmjim, I don't think that spouting off about the price of your vehicles and toys has anything to do with this conversation. I will leave it at that.

Whether I spend 10k or 100k on a new RV I have the right to complain about shoddy workmanship.

If you were to read my entire last post (tagged 12:43pm) you will see that I understand that if we keep buying these that they may not fix the problems.

I also believe that if we make it known that we are not happy with the quality that manufactures offer that it may start to fix the quality issue..I have contacted Jayco so they are aware.

I reside to the fact that if I want to pursue our lust for adventure by owning an RV that I will have to do some repairs/mods and put up with holes hammered in the walls etc. That does not mean I cannot voice a concern with a bit of a complaint rant.

If you chose to read it, just smile on your own good fortune with all your expensive toys but do not tell me not to complain..

Have a good day.

[bap]

Originally Posted by Watsons

Mr. Gypsmjim, I don't think that spouting off about the price of your vehicles and toys has anything to do with this conversation. I will leave it at that.

Whether I spend 10k or 100k on a new RV I have the right to complain about shoddy workmanship.

If you were to read my entire last post (tagged 12:43pm) you will see that I understand that if we keep buying these that they may not fix the problems.

I also believe that if we make it known that we are not happy with the quality that manufactures offer that it may start to fix the quality issue..I have contacted Jayco so they are aware.

I reside to the fact that if I want to pursue our lust for adventure by owning an RV that I will have to do some repairs/mods and put up with holes hammered in the walls etc. That does not mean I cannot voice a concern with a bit of a complaint rant.

If you chose to read it, just smile on your own good fortune with all your expensive toys but do not tell me not to complain..

Have a good day.

Well said Watsons.

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by Watsons

Mr. Gypsmjim, I don't think that spouting off about the price of your vehicles and toys has anything to do with this conversation. I will leave it at that.

Whether I spend 10k or 100k on a new RV I have the right to complain about shoddy workmanship.

If you were to read my entire last post (tagged 12:43pm) you will see that I understand that if we keep buying these that they may not fix the problems.

I also believe that if we make it known that we are not happy with the quality that manufactures offer that it may start to fix the quality issue..I have contacted Jayco so they are aware.

I reside to the fact that if I want to pursue our lust for adventure by owning an RV that I will have to do some repairs/mods and put up with holes hammered in the walls etc. That does not mean I cannot voice a concern with a bit of a complaint rant.

If you chose to read it, just smile on your own good fortune with all your expensive toys but do not tell me not to complain..

Have a good day.

You missed my point completely, and my use of comparing other products probably made it hard to distinguish. Rvs simply are very cheap in price. When the purchase price is that low you can't expect it to come gold plated.

After spending 50 years in business, and working with Vendors, Marketing and Sales people, it is quite obvious that companies will cut costs as far as they can to maximize profits. In an oversold market (like now), there is no incentive to improve.

We can complain all we want and nothing is going to happen. If you remember US autos in the 1970's were crap and Detroit didn't care. But then the Japanese started making better cars at cheaper prices. So Americans switched. As I said before, the quality won't improve as long as people keep buying them.

As far as "QUALITY" is concerned, that word means only one thing - it meets the customer's requirements. In our case it DID. My inexpensive little Jayco has delighted us right from the beginning. I would venture to say that MOST people are satisfied with the product. Complainers are often the loudest, but how often do happy campers take the time to post praise?

When a company rolls a new trailer off the line every 6 hours, there are bound to be some defects.

I spent 30 years in the Manufactured Housing industry and have spent a lot of time in Mobile Home plants. After looking at many double-wides, my Jayco looks like a first class product!

[bap]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

You missed my point completely, and my use of comparing other products probably made it hard to distinguish. Rvs simply are very cheap in price. When the purchase price is that low you can't expect it to come gold plated.

After spending 50 years in business, and working with Vendors, Marketing and Sales people, it is quite obvious that companies will cut costs as far as they can to maximize profits. In an oversold market (like now), there is no incentive to improve.

We can complain all we want and nothing is going to happen. If you remember US autos in the 1970's were crap and Detroit didn't care. But then the Japanese started making better cars at cheaper prices. So Americans switched. As I said before, the quality won't improve as long as people keep buying them.

As far as "QUALITY" is concerned, that word means only one thing - it meets the customer's requirements. In our case it DID. My inexpensive little Jayco has delighted us right from the beginning. I would venture to say that MOST people are satisfied with the product. Complainers are often the loudest, but how often do happy campers take the time to post praise?

When a company rolls a new trailer off the line every 6 hours, there are bound to be some defects.

I spent 30 years in the Manufactured Housing industry and have spent a lot of time in Mobile Home plants. After looking at many double-wides, my Jayco looks like a first class product!

You know, a lot of people on here think a $13,000 or more or even less travel trailer is a big expense, not cheap. Must be nice to have made enough money producing crappy mobile homes to be able to tell the rest of us that it is our fault that companies are more worried about lining their pockets with money than producing a quality product.

[Johnboy008]

Understood Gypsum, I agree that bang for buck speaking, the Jayco isn’t so bad. I see where corners are cut to make a penny here and there. I know it’s a tough business with a small profit margin. But all that being said, it does the soul good to complain every now and then...

[GHen]

I have a 2017 Eagle 291rsts. Knock on wood, With the exception of some plumbing holes that needed to be sealed up to keep the mice out, I have not found any of the issues you all describe. I also pulled the converter to install a 50amp electrical/surge protector. All seemed in order in the walls there.
I wonder if some plants are better than others....my daughters WhiteHawk does have issues....
I just say there is hope, and probably a need for better pre buy inspections, there’s a good business idea for someone. An independent home purchase inspector for RV’s. Use one of those video units with the cable to look behind the drawers and water heater, etc. Too many issues, the purchase is annulled or whatever you want to call it. Opt-out of the purchase and find a better unit.

[Dave T WA State]

Can anyone advise me where the on-board water pump is located in a 2015 Jayco Greyhawk 29MV Class C mtrhm? Not found inside, unless it's under the bed, next to electrical panel. Might be under the floor between frame rails.

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by bap

You know, a lot of people on here think a $13,000 or more or even less travel trailer is a big expense, not cheap. Must be nice to have made enough money producing crappy mobile homes to be able to tell the rest of us that it is our fault that companies are more worried about lining their pockets with money than producing a quality product.

X2 - Exactly the point! Jayco and all of them should do much better, and Jayco and the rest of the "slam-bam" makes are heading away from better not towards it.

[Screwby]

Regardless if I’m doing a job for a customer that cost $50 or a job that cost thousands, it doesn’t affect my quality of service. I don’t give someone who spends more money with me better customer service or quality labor. To even suggest that just because one thing cost less than another that it’s ok to use sub-par methods of completing the project is absurd. I can understand cheaper material being used on cheaper units. I can understand a more polished fit and finish in higher end units, that makes perfect sense. But the mindset that kicking holes in walls instead of using a hole saw, pinching cables and hoses between floor joists, forgetting to tighten bolts and screws down throughout the units, badly fitting trim barely stapled/glued on, Dicor slathered crooked and wrinkled roof membranes, and the myriad of other lazy crap I see is shameful. I guess maybe I take pride in my work and like to lay my head down to sleep at night knowing I did a good job for the sake of my customer not my wallet. That’s the problem with dealers and manufacturers these days, money made holds more sway than honesty and craftsmanship.

[201822j]

There are 2 aspects to QA 1-Design/Engineering and 2-build process

If the 1-Design/Engineering isn't right well it's real hard to make up the QA in the build process.
It's also very hard and expensive to fix issues post production, after it's in the buyer’s hands
And of course if the 2-build process isn't good or followed, then the buyer sees bad QA. But this can be corrected post production but a bad taste is now in the buyer's mouth

I'm brand new to RVing with a brand new RV
A couple of my newbie experiences.
Opened up area under the hanging closet to put my water filter cartridge in. That space shares the Water filter, water inlet and pluming with all the electrical, inverter, converter, fuse box. There were a half dozen lose screws along with wood shavings from the build process all over.
This seems like a convenient space for all this but sharing water and electrical in same place????
I look under the chassis and I'm concerned how many small wires run around under there with a minimal amount of tie up to secure them.

On our first trip, the auto stairs would not retract when we trying to come home. I had to disconnect and tie them up. My dealer is so busy, they are (3) weeks out for first appointment to have it fixed.
All of our fresh water siphoned out on the drive to the camp ground through the over flow tubes
I haven’t even started the generator or fired up the air conditioner, heater or really used the hot water heater. So I don't know what other gremlins lurk

I'm a big DIY guy and I went into buying new understanding there is a correction phase BUT these RVs are not cheap by any means.

I'm still on my RV honeymoon so still excited to get out there and enjoy. These forums offer so much support and information but they can also go sideways with unhappiness and bitterness when things go bad.

[gypsmjim]

My professional involvement with the industry was as a vendor. In a time when trailer houses would go up like a torch in a fire, my department pioneered the industry wide use of fire resistant materials. Although they continued to use cheap windows, sub-standard carpeting and off-brand appliances (which had nothing to do with us) we were proud that we contributed to a major improvement to safety.

If you ever personally witnessed the manufacture of a mobile home I think you would agree that the Engineering and QC Procedures are well thought out. I would guess that the RV methodology is similar, especially since some companies make both products. I see the problem to be in the execution.

Many of the workers are fine Amish people that take pride in their work and work hard. But this is a production line and the line doesn’t stop. Having to use the restroom between breaks could result in a missed task that may or may not be corrected later.

I hear a lot of complaints on the internet, but seldom from my friends and associates. Dealers are notoriously slow and provide poor service, but that’s on them not Jayco. In my case our unit was almost flawless and I was impressed with the fit and finish. My only problem was a leaking faucet, and a new one was mailed the same day I personally called Jayco’s CS dept.

Some years ago it was discovered that the lawnmower companies were cheating the public. Someone initiated a class action lawsuit, and everyone that bought a new mower in that time period (whether they complained or not) received a cash settlement from the proceeds of the suit.

I don’t know it the grass cutters complained or not before hiring a lawyer, but obviously actions are greater than words. Maybe someone should compose a petition to Jayco’s CEO, stating the problem and implying that we won’t take it any more. Post it on internet forums and such. If thousands of people deluge the guy, maybe then they will improve. That's my suggestion. If anybody else has an idea, let's hear it.