Jayco Quality Workmanship???

[GHen]

I would hope that Jayco would have someone monitoring this website. Either way, this site would be a perfect place to create a petition that could be sent to Jayco on behalf of owners.

[vcbice]

Originally Posted by bap

You know, a lot of people on here think a $13,000 or more or even less travel trailer is a big expense, not cheap. Must be nice to have made enough money producing crappy mobile homes to be able to tell the rest of us that it is our fault that companies are more worried about lining their pockets with money than producing a quality product.

Well, it might be a big expense, but, it is still a 'low end' product.

And, yes, it is 'our' fault for buying this 'cheap' stuff. If we chose the more expensive model instead, or walked away from the deal then things might change. Until then the dealers and mfgs won't change their methods.

[Watsons]

Originally Posted by vcbice

Well, it might be a big expense, but, it is still a 'low end' product.

And, yes, it is 'our' fault for buying this 'cheap' stuff. If we chose the more expensive model instead, or walked away from the deal then things might change. Until then the dealers and mfgs won't change their methods.

Hey all, It was not my intention to get people jawin at each other about what's expensive or high end and what's not. That's not what this is about.
Somewhere there is a great guy in a 500k coach ranting about how his marble counter is not set just right.

I just needed to rant about a hole punched in my wall unnecessarily that very easily could have been avoided. Its about pride in your work...Workmanship quality!

I think we all know that the mighty Jayco of the past slipped away after the Thor incident. The very hardworking and proud Amish folks that build a lot of these units are being pushed to produce quantity and the once family atmosphere may have all but disappeared.

Since this post started a week or so ago I have found a knee hole in the slide top, a propane regulator that is installed in such a way that I have no chance of seeing if its red or not, wires and a propane hose under the fridge slide that where pinched so bad the fridge wouldn't light on propane, and everywhere I turn there is construction junk falling in my face or all over the counters/floor.

I don't mind fixing stuff myself so have been busy learning about our RV and knowing the repairs are done correctly but wholy man...when will it end?? I want to get back to waxing and shining lol..

I don't want to bash the Jayco name because I know there are some units that turn out flawless and haven't given the owners a lick of trouble. I just happened to get one that the workers must have been riled up about something that day...

Have a great rest of the camping season all. After all, its why we go through all this isn't it?

Cheers

[gypsmjim]

The problems you list are not simply bad workmanship, but rather a cluster you-know-what. Maybe the Amish were on vacation that day, maybe it was the last coach on the line on Friday, maybe it was pushed at the end of the day to get them a bonus. I dunno. But, it never should have passed final inspection at the plant, and most of all your dealer dropped the ball big time.

In our PDI the girl showed us every single feature and demonstrated they all worked. I had to light my fridge on gas so she could verify I knew how. The unit was spotless everywhere. The only construction debris I found was a few crumbs around the hole drilled for the low point drains.

Do you have a lemon law in your state? If so, use it and force them to give you a new trailer. If not, take pictures of all the defects, show them to the dealer and follow up with a personal call to Jayco. Get the names of the Plant Manager, Quality Manager and Customer Service Manager and mail each of them the pictures and a detailed letter. Insist that you receive the next unit off the line. Copy the State Attorney General and your local BBB. You have to show them you mean business.

[Screwby]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

The problems you list are not simply bad workmanship, but rather a cluster you-know-what. Maybe the Amish were on vacation that day, maybe it was the last coach on the line on Friday, maybe it was pushed at the end of the day to get them a bonus. I dunno. But, it never should have passed final inspection at the plant, and most of all your dealer dropped the ball big time.

In our PDI the girl showed us every single feature and demonstrated they all worked. I had to light my fridge on gas so she could verify I knew how. The unit was spotless everywhere. The only construction debris I found was a few crumbs around the hole drilled for the low point drains.

Do you have a lemon law in your state? If so, use it and force them to give you a new trailer. If not, take pictures of all the defects, show them to the dealer and follow up with a personal call to Jayco. Get the names of the Plant Manager, Quality Manager and Customer Service Manager and mail each of them the pictures and a detailed letter. Insist that you receive the next unit off the line. Copy the State Attorney General and your local BBB. You have to show them you mean business.

This is by far not the normal experience at any dealer I’ve ever been to. My first PDI they tried to charge me for lol. Then the “tech” who tried to give me the walk around was all but clueless on everything but the basic features. I had to show him a few things I’d learned to look for after being on this forum and researching online for months. He actually found it humorous, I did not. I’m on my third unit, not all Jayco, and there has been copious amounts of sawdust and wire clippings/wire crimps in and under everywhere. Must be too time consuming to have someone sweep under, over, and in cabinets on final inspection.
If we protested and stopped buying these units they wouldn’t care. They keep selling record numbers year after year. Unfortunately the majority of owners I meet in campgrounds don’t seem so concerned or even aware their units are sub par. It’s been shocking the amount of campers who don’t even know how to use half the stuff on their RV and seem lost when a problem however simple it might be arrives. This forum like all the other Manufacturer forums I’m a part of represents such a small segment of the actual owners that I believe we fall on deaf ears. We’ve all said it before, the posts about problems will always outnumber the posts about good stuff. I know I don’t jump on here and say “well another day went by and nothing happened to my Jayco!” We all post when there is an issue we need help with or a mod we want to brag about. We come here to vent and shake our heads at times. Hopefully one day big business might care....I’m not holding my breath.

[2edgesword]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

In our PDI the girl showed us every single feature and demonstrated they all worked. I had to light my fridge on gas so she could verify I knew how. The unit was spotless everywhere. The only construction debris I found was a few crumbs around the hole drilled for the low point drains.

This is what you are paying the dealer to do. Fortunately my first experience was with a family owned dealership that understood what customer service really means. The spend three hours with this newbie on a pretty basic TT to go over every system, open even door, flip every switch, turn every knob, show me how to hitch the TV and take me for a test drive towing the TT. If you're not getting this type of treatment from a dealer demand it or take your business elsewhere.

[GHen]

I still like the idea of a savvy rv tech starting a a business doing pre-delivery inspections. A couple hundred bucks would be well worth it.

[FeatherFam]

Originally Posted by vcbice

Well, it might be a big expense, but, it is still a 'low end' product.

And, yes, it is 'our' fault for buying this 'cheap' stuff. If we chose the more expensive model instead, or walked away from the deal then things might change. Until then the dealers and mfgs won't change their methods.

Been there with the "more expensive" "higher quality" unit, and we got totally ripped-off on it.

[bdreinv]

After owning our own business for 30 plus year's! I can tell you our customers expect the same level of service no matter what price they pay high or low! And that's why we never discounted our fee's.Jayco has conditioned there customers over time to this low lowest level of quality and service. In our opinion Thanks.

[bdreinv]

Use to be a company in Phoenix in 2005, that's exactly what we paid. Could not find anyone in 2016.

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by GHen

I still like the idea of a savvy rv tech starting a a business doing pre-delivery inspections. A couple hundred bucks would be well worth it.

It wouldn't be worth it to me. Why pay someone to work with you when they have no accountability?

Jayco's Owner's Manual clearly states that a PDI is the Dealer's requirement. They should not just be showing you the unit, they should be proving to you that all is well. If a defect shows up when they are prepping it, they should have corrected it. If it shows up at the PDI, the buyer should not accept it until it was repaired.

In our case there was a minor adjustment needed on a door latch that was noted at the PDI. They fixed it while we waited. Of course, I didn't hand them the check until I verified it was fixed.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

It wouldn't be worth it to me. Why pay someone to work with you when they have no accountability?

If it was like a home inspector then they'd have liability for their report. A big difference in outlay for house vs RV though (for most people).

In my view pretty much every RV is a rolling POS but if I want one to use then I really have no choice. I think the closest an Amish craftsman came to my fiver was when it rolled past his farm on the way to the dealer. The level of workmanship in it is horrible. The materials used are poor. I suppose I could have gone up a level and then instead of paper covered cabinet framing I might get real solid wood. I think RV's may have moved to being a disposable product except the price wasn't lowered to reflect that.

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

If it was like a home inspector then they'd have liability for their report. A big difference in outlay for house vs RV though (for most people).

In my view pretty much every RV is a rolling POS but if I want one to use then I really have no choice. I think the closest an Amish craftsman came to my fiver was when it rolled past his farm on the way to the dealer. The level of workmanship in it is horrible. The materials used are poor. I suppose I could have gone up a level and then instead of paper covered cabinet framing I might get real solid wood. I think RV's may have moved to being a disposable product except the price wasn't lowered to reflect that.

IMHO, the parts that are the most important are first line - like the heater, fridge, roof, countertops, etc. The "cheap" parts like cabinets and walls are cheap for a good reason. Its all about weight.

What does a low end pickup truck that can haul a TT cost today? Yeah, that's right - sticker shock. I see that some of the viewers here have F250 diesels. If we had real wood trailers what would you pull it with?

My 1964 14' TT weighs as much as my 2015 SLX 195. It has thicker walls, solid wood birch cabinets and a metal roof. The fact that a 54 year old trailer is still in use shows they made them better in the old days.

I bought the 2015 with the idea that it needs to last 20 years. It was 1/3 the cost of building a cabin, so it was a no-brainer. It'll never be towed, so I guess we'll see how it goes.

[bdreinv]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

IMHO, the parts that are the most important are first line - like the heater, fridge, roof, countertops, etc. The "cheap" parts like cabinets and walls are cheap for a good reason. Its all about weight.

What does a low end pickup truck that can haul a TT cost today? Yeah, that's right - sticker shock. I see that some of the viewers here have F250 diesels. If we had real wood trailers what would you pull it with?

My 1964 14' TT weighs as much as my 2015 SLX 195. It has thicker walls, solid wood birch cabinets and a metal roof. The fact that a 54 year old trailer is still in use shows they made them better in the old days.

I bought the 2015 with the idea that it needs to last 20 years. It was 1/3 the cost of building a cabin, so it was a no-brainer. It'll never be towed, so I guess we'll see how it goes.

Industry has been doing it for years, selling the sizzle without the steak. Except today the steak has turned into baloney!

[Screwby]

Agreed, if they built these RVs like a house they would cost a fortune and or weigh so much we couldn’t haul them. My gripe is that type and quality of materials has nothing to do with taking the time to make sure more than half your screws or staples actually hit a stud when assembling something. Making sure wires are tucked away properly and plumbing isn’t kinked has nothing to do with cheap and lightweight parts, it’s laziness and incompetence. It’s a sad state of affairs for sure. If car manufacturers were putting out work this shoddy it would be front page news every night as lawsuits by the government and civilians piled up. There are recalls nightly because of mundane vehicle problems but we currently have a thread about the bolts that hold the camper to the frame being loose on several units (mine included) and that’s the tip of the iceberg. There doesn’t seem to be an association or governing body on the consumers side which leaves us all to fight against dealers and manufactures who all point the finger at each other and wear you down until you give up.
People keep saying we should catch these issues in the PDI but first time buyers and newbies don’t have a clue what to even look for, I sure didn’t. We assume we can trust the dealers but us with experience know better now. You seriously think the first time novice buyer is pulling all the drawers out, crawling under the camper with a fine tooth comb and checking every seal on the roof, belly, and walls? Heck a majority of these buyers are elderly or sadly too out of shape to do so anyways. By time we become savvy enough to know what to do it’s too late. I’ve never in my life crawled under a brand new car/truck to check every working part and bolt to be sure it’s installed correctly, why should my camper be different? We drive them and they run good so we buy them. You find problems like this on a car/truck and there will be immediate recourse. Your not sitting at home without your brand new vehicle for months and months hoping it will be fixed someday, at least not without a dealer loaner. That wouldn’t happen, but it does daily in the RV world. *rant over*

[BrentB]

Maybe they leave all the construction debris in each unit to cut down on their garbage disposal fees!

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by Screwby

Agreed, if they built these RVs like a house they would cost a fortune and or weigh so much we couldn’t haul them. My gripe is that type and quality of materials has nothing to do with taking the time to make sure more than half your screws or staples actually hit a stud when assembling something. Making sure wires are tucked away properly and plumbing isn’t kinked has nothing to do with cheap and lightweight parts, it’s laziness and incompetence. It’s a sad state of affairs for sure. If car manufacturers were putting out work this shoddy it would be front page news every night as lawsuits by the government and civilians piled up. There are recalls nightly because of mundane vehicle problems but we currently have a thread about the bolts that hold the camper to the frame being loose on several units (mine included) and that’s the tip of the iceberg. There doesn’t seem to be an association or governing body on the consumers side which leaves us all to fight against dealers and manufactures who all point the finger at each other and wear you down until you give up.
People keep saying we should catch these issues in the PDI but first time buyers and newbies don’t have a clue what to even look for, I sure didn’t. We assume we can trust the dealers but us with experience know better now. You seriously think the first time novice buyer is pulling all the drawers out, crawling under the camper with a fine tooth comb and checking every seal on the roof, belly, and walls? Heck a majority of these buyers are elderly or sadly too out of shape to do so anyways. By time we become savvy enough to know what to do it’s too late. I’ve never in my life crawled under a brand new car/truck to check every working part and bolt to be sure it’s installed correctly, why should my camper be different? We drive them and they run good so we buy them. You find problems like this on a car/truck and there will be immediate recourse. Your not sitting at home without your brand new vehicle for months and months hoping it will be fixed someday, at least not without a dealer loaner. That wouldn’t happen, but it does daily in the RV world. *rant over*

I agree with you 1000%. But after being an RVer for 20+ years, and even though I'm retired, old and feeble I still threw a tarp and cushions down and crawled under the crappy trailer to make sure I didn't have a mice hole. While I found quality workmanship inside, I found nothing less in the undercarriage.

So, what's the deal? I'm cornfused. How can some be awesome while others are crap?

I'm not validating the laziness and incompetence theory. When I was edumacated in Total Quality Management and Six Sigma they stressed that all problems are due to poor Management, not the worker. My professional career would support that theory.

I'm also a boater. Many people get started and lose interest after a year or 2. Same with my neighbors that own RVs. After 2 years they sit unused. Those newbies are the ones that hurt both industries because they don't complain. If us oldbies want a quality product, I guess we need to do the pre-inspections and call them on defects ahead of time.

Nothing will change in the current bizzness climate. I guess we just need to look out for ourselves.

[klspahr]

Around here the Amish workers are known as cheap to hire, but not too concerned with quality or even following building codes. One of my favorite stories is the Amish farmer who used barbed wire to run electricity inside his barn. That’s right, uninsulated steel wire carrying 120 volts stapled to the wood beams. Get ‘er done cheap!

An Amish workforce should be your first red flag IMO.

It also seems to me that the only people with lower standards than the factories are the dealers that sell them. But that’s the world we live in today.

[2edgesword]

I agree with Screwby. I understand that RV's can't be made with top notch materials because you'd need a tractor to pull them. But that doesn't excuse shoddy workmanship or that that shoddy workmanship is allowed to escape the factory. These are things that should be caught during outgoing inspection at the manufacturing site and as a last point of inspection at the dealership. These is no excuse for these things ending up in the hands of the customer.

Unfortunately the motto among RV buyers has to be buyer beware. I'm surprised to hear some of the stories because it not only means a failure on the part of the manufacturer and the dealer but a failure on the part of the buyer to do their due diligence before handing over a check. That means demanding to SEE every system in operation. I think my dealer was a little taken back when I started unloading a multimeter, A/C outlet tester and my laser temperature "gun" when we started the PDI. Then he heard my instructions to my wife, "toggle every switch, open/close every door, take this cup of water and put it in the microwave for a minute...". Unfortunately I've learned enough in the last few years to understand the RV industry is still at the stage where this has to be done even with a new RV.

[1joans]

Send that to Jayco !!