Living seasonally with no electrical hook up

CanadianW's · 03-08-2015, 08:11 AM

Due to a problem with the way it was originally installed (long story but each site owner pays for their own installation if they want power), the seasonal campsite on a Canadian military installation we have, the power is being removed for this upcoming camping season. It already has no sewers, but there's a dump station close by and a weekly pump service, so the sewage hasn't been an issue much so far (knock on wood!)

The site is the largest, most beautiful, waterfront site (huge treed site with it's own private walkway to sandy beachfront) and we don't want to move, we rather want to get by without power for the summer.

We are a family of four, mom, dad and two young children. We have a Jayco BHS28' travel trailer.

My husband is a licenced electrical contractor/electrician so I assume this is why were given the site... on the hopes he would fix the electrical issues, but the cost of the wire and supplies even if he installs himself is not worth the chance we could get posted away at any time. So we would rather invest some money into solar power, generators, etc that we can take with us. We realize there will be additional costs with us needing more propane as well.

These are the things we are looking into so far:

1. We have a small portable generator that may be able to run the a/c at times, which will help, but the generators can be annoying after a while.

2. I've seen rv solar power kits sold online, I don't know much about them (hubby will be able to tell better if they are enough for us but he is away right now) that may help for the lower draw things, but I would be surprised if you can get a solar powered system that would run an a/c unit.

3. Propane tanks - since this is a seasonal site I'm wondering if we should buy really large tanks and have propane delivered. I'm assuming we will go through a lot more propane running the fridge etc off propane.

4. For cooling, we may invest in some battery powered fans and have them blow over bowls of ice and see if that helps cool things down during the really hot nights.

Does anyone here have experience staying longer lengths of time in a trailer or rv with no power? Do you have any tips for us?

Bassdogs · 03-08-2015, 08:30 AM

Can't imagine the specifics of the elec issues at your site but can't believe that the cost of running new wire etc would be more than installing a complete solar system with panels, wiring, controller, and battery bank and then an inverter to produce 110v for AC or other non 12v needs. If husband has the experience to do the deed, I would put my $$'s into getting power to the site. I ran power to my barn, distance of over 100 yds, with direct bury cable, ditching, breaker box etc for less than $300. That was a few years ago but even with higher cost for wiring, it would still seem to be the better way to spend your $$.

slabat · 03-08-2015, 09:21 AM

I agree with Bassdogs, but if you have a generator that is not to noisy already I would use that during the peak heat hours to run the AC and run off the battery the rest of the time. But you will burn through some gas doing this.

Jmooney · 03-08-2015, 09:48 AM

Correct. Don't want to run an A/C unit off an inverter. Will kill your batteries very quickly not to mention how big and costly the inverter would be

( A/C unis run on 110 V and draw 12- 20 amps )

Lots on this forum on solar, battery sizing and inverters.

CanadianW's · 03-08-2015, 02:31 PM

You may be surprised how much copper costs have gone up, the wire alone is over $600 (it's a long run, back to the main). And that's the wire at wholesale prices!

I would rather sink 1K or more into a system if we can reasonably provide ourselves enough power to run what we need to (a/c being the big dilemma of course, and may not be possible any way but with out being on the grid). At least this way we can take it with us, vs put out 1K (most likely more) for electrical supply to a site we may only use for a few months (military life - most of you either know it or can understand why this is a concern for us).

I'm thinking slabat has the right idea, running the generator but hopefully only when it's really necessary... gasoline prices are going back up I see

Really, other than the a/c I think we can manage - and even then I have heard of set ups with battery powered fans and running them so they blow over bowls of ice (which we will have to make using propane powered fridge!!).

The other option we have is to move to another electrical serviced site, but I really do like this particular site, I believe it truly is the most beautiful site in the campground.

EDIT: Sorry, how rude of me! Thank you to everyone who replied, I appreciate the feedback, even if it only confirms my fear that most likely the a/c won't be an option for us if we go the off the grid route.

Bassdogs · 03-09-2015, 07:56 AM

What is wrong with the existing wiring? Couldn't it be salvaged and reused? Have you id'ed the issues with the existing set up?

spoon059 · 03-09-2015, 09:06 AM

I'm with Bassdogs, if the previous electric was incorrectly run than there should be useable wiring for your husband to fix. That is your best bet. Even if he has to pay $1000 to fix the electric there, it is probably the cheapest option. Yes, it is money spent one time. How often do you plan on seasonally camping at a site with no electric in the future? It seems that campers fall into one of two groups; those that rough it and can get by with a minimal battery/solar setup that powers a light and fan at night and those that need the modern conveniences. I bought a camper because I want my AC in the summer, I want my bathroom, I want a comfy bed, etc etc.

The cost of solar is very high and takes a long time to recoup. You need to buy panels, batteries, wiring, invertor, etc. I would guess a 2000 watt solar system would run at least $10,000. That isn't enough power to run your AC though. That will let you use lights, charge phones, make coffee in the morning, and watch some tv. If you are on a shady site (I think you said the site has lots of trees) then that will reduce the amount of energy from the sun. I doubt you will have sufficient roof space to mount solar panels to run an AC.

The next option for me would be a very nice generator. A Honda or Yamaha with enough power to run your AC is likely going to be $2000. $2000 is expensive but WAY less than a solar setup and it will let you run AC if you want. They are relatively quiet if you only run it when you need power. You could even build a shelter for it to absorb some sound and reflect the rest of the sound away from you and your neighbors.

Gas is expensive, but so is everything else. If you want the energy you have to pay the price somehow unfortunately. "Free" solar is very, very expensive.

Jagiven · 03-09-2015, 11:00 AM

I am with spoon059 on this one. Solar is very very expensive. You see a lot of small units for sale for a few hundred dollars, but you are getting what you pay for. They will keep your battery charged on good sunny days. Most of them do not have a good brains behind them so your battery may take a beating. If you have lots of trees, solar does not do good. Solar want full sun.

In general I hate generators, but in this case it sounds like your best investment as you can take it with you.

hoosierhick · 03-09-2015, 11:36 AM

We just reran power to 6 campsites in our campground. Went from 30 to 50 amps.
Instead of copper we used direct burial aluminum. We laid it inside conduit. Wire ,box & conduit was less than $300.00 for a 200ft. run. Is aluminum legal up north ?

campingva · 03-09-2015, 06:56 PM

Also look into a generator that can be converted to propane. It is mich less than gas and is easier to transport. Many existing generators ca be converted with a kit and a competent mechanic. Some say they even run quieter.

Seann45 · 03-10-2015, 09:02 AM

Solar is great but for a decent system you will be looking at about 5 grand. My system has paid for itself in 5 years time.
A fan blowing over ice will add humidity to your RV not a good thing. I suggest you look at Fantastic roof vent fans to pull the hot air out.. and only open windows on the shaded side of your RV usually this will be from under the awning.. I keep mine very comfortable this way..

waynem · 03-10-2015, 11:11 AM

I don't agree with some of the numbers here for a solar install. Last summer I installed two 158W panels on my 2010 25RKS, along with charge controller and a small inverter for about $1000. I can run lights (all converted to LED), run the water pump, charge phones, and watch the TV. The fridge runs on propane. On an 11 day outing on the Oregon coast last summer we had an assortment of sunny, cloudy, foggy, and rainy days, and my site didn't get much sun until about noon each day. My two existing 12v batteries were fully charged (as in 100%) every day by 4pm. My setup will not run the microwave or a toaster or a hair dryer. To do that, I would probably need an additional 150w panel, a larger inverter, and beef up the batteries. Maybe an additional $1000. Nowhere near the $5000-10,000 mentioned above, but that's with me doing the labor. I agree with the others that you wouldn't want to try to build a solar system that would run your A/C.

I always recommend that folks read Handy Bob's blog if they are thinking about solar. I did and my install is much better than if I hadn't. Read here: https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/

spoon059 · 03-11-2015, 08:29 AM

With all due respect, you have a 300 watt system for a 10 day vacation. The op is attempting to full time with hers. It's pathetic, but most of us will require a LOT more power than 300 watts will provide... especially for full time use.

You can buy a 2000 watt generator for the same price and get much more power...

**Snake Plissken** · 03-13-2015, 04:28 PM

Let's all remain civil

Subaru297 · 05-20-2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon059

With all due respect, you have a 300 watt system for a 10 day vacation. The op is attempting to full time with hers. It's pathetic, but most of us will require a LOT more power than 300 watts will provide... especially for full time use.

You can buy a 2000 watt generator for the same price and get much more power...

If you go to Handybob's blog you will see that he full timed for about 8 years on around 600W of solar. As Waynen mentioned adding an additional 300 watts to his system is two panels and a couple of batteries.....~$1000.

So for $2000 you could have enough power to run almost anything you want short of the AC and you don't have the noise and stink of a generator.
What would you spend on fuel for the generator? $10 a day? $5?
That would be $450 to $900 for a three month stay on top of the cost of the generator.

Solar is not going to cost $5-10k for enough energy to full time.

Trojan T105 @ $125 x 4 batteries = $500
Trimetric TM-2025-RV Battery Monitor System = $152
SolarWorld Sunmodule 315 Watt Monocrystalline Panel x2 = $660
TriStar MPPT 30A Charge Control = $412
Exeltech XP1100 12-volt 1100 watt sine wave inverter = $568.35
Wiring and other misc ?? = $200

Total = $2500

Could be a little less or more depending on what you choose and what you want to run. The inverter is a big chunk of change if you want something more powerful. My point is that the cost is not much more than a quiet generator.

A 3000Watt Honda inverter generator is about $2000.

Diesel Mike1 · 05-20-2015, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru297

If you go to Handybob's blog you will see that he full timed for about 8 years on around 600W of solar. As Waynen mentioned adding an additional 300 watts to his system is two panels and a couple of batteries.....~$1000.

So for $2000 you could have enough power to run almost anything you want short of the AC and you don't have the noise and stink of a generator.
What would you spend on fuel for the generator? $10 a day? $5?
That would be $450 to $900 for a three month stay on top of the cost of the generator.

Solar is not going to cost $5-10k for enough energy to full time.

Trojan T105 @ $125 x 4 batteries = $500
Trimetric TM-2025-RV Battery Monitor System = $152
SolarWorld Sunmodule 315 Watt Monocrystalline Panel x2 = $660
TriStar MPPT 30A Charge Control = $412
Exeltech XP1100 12-volt 1100 watt sine wave inverter = $568.35
Wiring and other misc ?? = $200

Total = $2500

Could be a little less or more depending on what you choose and what you want to run. The inverter is a big chunk of change if you want something more powerful. My point is that the cost is not much more than a quiet generator.

A 3000Watt Honda inverter generator is about $2000.

I agree with subaru297, as long as you can do the labor yourself, and shop around for the best deals on equipment, $2500.00 will build you a very nice solar system. Then if you figure another $790.00 for a champion 3100 watt inverter generator for the days you need extra power for a/c etc. then you have everything you need for under 3 grand. As far as $10,000 for a system is concerned, im not sure where these numbers are coming from.

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