Locking portable surge protectors and insurance coverage

[tinlizzie23]

There have been several recent threads where folks discuss the pros and cons of portable vs hardwired surge protectors. One of the main concerns about the portable ones is that they are vulnerable to theft.

Just for the fun of it, I decided to check with my insurance company (State Farm) to see if there was any coverage for portable surge protectors that have a locking ring attached. I expected a negative response, but to my surprise, they said yes, such devices are indeed covered, as long as they are used exclusively on the camper, and nowhere else. I asked specifically about theft, noting that even with a bicycle lock cable, a set of bolt cutters would probably defeat the lock. They still stated that I definitely was covered, minus the overall deductible.

That means that if my $360 protector was stolen, I would only pay the $100 deductible to get it replaced. That puts a much better light on the subject over the prospect of having to shell out another $360 for replacement.

So, I thought perhaps this info might be of interest to folks out there. Check with your carrier, and maybe you will be pleasantly surprised as well.

[jdorant]

A discussion I just had last night... I'm thinking of a surge protector but not sure if I want to shell out $300 for it right now when I have many other things that need to be bought for the new camper as well.

I would imagine I would be covered say I did not buy a surge protecter and something happened to my electronics in the camper because of it. There is no neglect as you are not required to buy this for your camper and they are not built with it. Theoretically, the fuses should protect you trailer from such surges. I realize it would be an aggravation say something did happen, but I'm thinking I want to put this mod off 1 season and spend my money elsewhere this year. Thoughts?

[RedHorse1]

tin,
Do they require it to be locked to be covered? I have one of the Progressive Ind outside units and have a lock for it but don't bother to use it ( a decision that I may regret).

[clubhouse]

jdorant,

You are right EMS systems aren't cheap but do offer some piece of mind. I certainly don't have hard facts, but I imagine the majority of RVers aren't using an EMS and if you consider the numbers or folks plugged in at any given time vs the number a TT/RVs that get fried I'd say odds are on your side. Rarely on these forums does someone say they got fried and it would have been prevented by an EMS. Mostly what I hear is some story about another camper in a campground or some friend of a friend -- I always take those with a grain of salt.

That said I bought one. I have a portable Surge Guard 30A that I found online for ~$250. I didn't buy it so much for spikes but rather low voltage situations. In CA, where we live, summer heat is a fact of life and in a campground with dozens of ACs running I imagine taxing the CG power system is a reality. Although the AC and other appliances will work under low voltage situations prolonged opperation without sufficient voltage with reduce the effective life of those units. I concenered my AC will die a slow death from low volatage and not a quick death from a surge. It stands to reason your insurance will cover catistrophic damage from a voltage spike, but I don't think you will get coverage from a low volatage slow death -- would be very hard to prove.

I do lock up my SurgeGuard using the clam shell housing Mfg by SurgeGuard as well. It wouldn't take much to defeat the housing and pad lock but its a deterent none the less. I see folk that don't secure them at all. I am not concerned about it the EMS being stolen, in reality I think coolers full of beer are much more likely targets for campground theft. I hope they day doesn't come that I need to file a claim for the EMS, but Its nice to know that it is insured.

[clubhouse]

Doubtful. Think of all the property your homeowners/renters insurance covers that doesn't require locking...besides how can they prove it was NOT locked? They can't, just the sme you can't prove it was locked once its stolen and gone.

[clubhouse]

[QUOTE=tinlizzie23;121539]as long as they are used exclusively on the camper, and nowhere else.

If it isn't covered under your TT policy, it certainly would be on a Homeowners or Renters policy -- although the deductible may be higher.

[thomasmnile]

We had a Progressive Industries 50 amp hard wired EMS in the fifth wheel we had. On two occasions it shut down power to the trailer when it sensed one of the conditions it protects against (was not a power surge). One was an under voltage condition, the other I don't remember. Both were caused by shall we say, not exactly standard pedestal wiring.

The only surge experience I have had has been in our stick n' brick. The worst one was in a thunderstorm following Hurricane Charley in 2004. Lightning struck a neighbor's tree, traveled down the trunk into the ground and found our home's electrical ground stake and entered the wiring. Fried a brand new home theater, damaged a new TV, and killed a two smoke detectors. All this despite the fact the home entertainment equipment was plugged into a $100 surge suppressor, and the house had a meter base whole house suppressor (which gave its life and then some). Have to believe things would have been much worse without the surge suppressors. OTOH, I think the biggest threat in campgrounds are wiring faults and over/under voltage conditions, rather than power surges. Either way, anything in your RV with a PC board is susceptible to a quick death by electrical irregularities, and the cost could easily exceed the price of a good EMS. Therefore, I use them; was the first improvement I made in our White Hawk, even before we made our first outing in it.

[thomasmnile]

Originally Posted by jdorant

A discussion I just had last night... I'm thinking of a surge protector but not sure if I want to shell out $300 for it right now when I have many other things that need to be bought for the new camper as well.

I would imagine I would be covered say I did not buy a surge protecter and something happened to my electronics in the camper because of it. There is no neglect as you are not required to buy this for your camper and they are not built with it. Theoretically, the fuses should protect you trailer from such surges. I realize it would be an aggravation say something did happen, but I'm thinking I want to put this mod off 1 season and spend my money elsewhere this year. Thoughts?

Jdorant: FWIW: I see you have a new White Hawk on order. I paid $250 for my hard wired 30 amp Progressive unit(and it has the remote readout pendant). Only additional expense was a couple of wire nuts, an additional 1/2" cable clamp and a 4' long piece of appropriately sized cable to complete the installation. Took about an hour.

[jdorant]

Thank you clubhouse for your input, I appreciate it. But this leads me to another question.

Scenario: You go away, (long or short trip) and you surge guard detects low or high voltage and turns power off to your camper. What do you do? Override it? (defeats having it I guess), Move sites? (same problem on new site, therefore campground issue) Now what? Do you leave the campground and look for a new one? Its a holiday week, chances are you are not going to find a site anywhere. Do you go home?

Keep in mind? I'm not against having the protection, I'm just trying to justify it to myself. And I hear many people will use the override feature in the case it shuts power down. I leaning towards getting it, just not this year. I think!

[thomasmnile]

Originally Posted by jdorant

Thank you clubhouse for your input, I appreciate it. But this leads me to another question.

Scenario: You go away, (long or short trip) and you surge guard detects low or high voltage and turns power off to your camper. What do you do? Override it? (defeats having it I guess), Move sites? (same problem on new site, therefore campground issue) Now what? Do you leave the campground and look for a new one? Its a holiday week, chances are you are not going to find a site anywhere. Do you go home?

Keep in mind? I'm not against having the protection, I'm just trying to justify it to myself. And I hear many people will use the override feature in the case it shuts power down. I leaning towards getting it, just not this year. I think!

Jdorant: In the case where the EMS shut down power to our fifth wheel, The pedestal was somewhow wired with a 30 amp and 20 amp breaker in the box, but a 20 amp, 30 amp and 50 amp outlet were present (I didn't get it either). Anyway, without noticing the 30 amp wasn't a 50 amp breaker, I flipped it on, went inside the trailer and no power, but there was an error code on the display. I flipped the 20 amp breaker on at the pedestal and the problem was resolved, and we had no problem for the duration of our stay. I was about to call the office and request another site when I decided to flip on the 20 amp breaker to see if it would take care of the issue.

As far as use of the override feature, a good question. The two times a I had a problem it was resolved without resorting to the override switch.

[norty1]

When you have $1000. deductible, it is a moot point but I do save a lot on insurance.

[westom]

Originally Posted by jdorant

Theoretically, the fuses should protect you trailer from such surges.

It should be obvious that a fuse does not protect from any surge (and there are many different types). A fuse blows AFTER appliance damage. So that damage does not create a fire.

A protector at the pedestal is for something completely different from a hardwired protector that disconnects power. Two completely different anomalies. Two completely different devices that, unfortunately, have a similar name. Fuses are for a completely different (third) anomaly.

[Bob Landry]

I would question, and an adjuster might also, the definition of locking ring. I'm thinking your agent may not have understood what you were asking. Being in the marine industry, the "locking rings" that I see are on the end of shore power cords and simply provide a secure mechanical connection but do not provide anything in the way of security. At any rate, why not spend the same amount, for a hardwired unit and eliminate the possibility of having to shell out a deductible for theft. Mine lives under a table between the two chairs, where the power comes in.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by westom

A protector at the pedestal is for something completely different from a hardwired protector that disconnects power. Two completely different anomalies. .

Many of the better portable surge protectors also disconnect power exactly the same way as the hardwired units.(low voltage/high voltage or surge) The one I have does a 2 minute diagnostic before it even turns on.

If you have ever seen some of the damage done to a surge protector after a major surge or lightning strike you may not want it inside the coach, at least I don't.

[rbrumfield]

I saw a 30AMP Surge Protector after it took a surge in TX last year. I have to agree with Grumpy I do not want it inside of my fiver. YMMV.

[tinlizzie23]

To answer several questions from previous replies:

1) I told my ins agent that this device has a metal bar attached permanently to the cord, with another hole for attaching something like a bicycle lock cable to the pedestal. And I also specifically mentioned that a good set of bolt cutters could probably defeat the lock. Even in light of this description, the agent said I definitely would be covered, and even gave me the page # and paragraph that would apply. He said nothing about proof that the protector was locked at the time of theft. The ONLY stipulation was that this device had to be dedicated to the camper in question, and not used in any other locations.

2) As for the scenario of the protector shutting off power while you are away - the one I have in mind (PI EMS-PT50C) will re-close the circuit after a couple of minutes to allow the A/C compressor to reset. If the problem is still there, such as low voltage, it will shut off again. I would much rather come back to a refrig full of spoiled food than to have the A/C or the converter ruined.

3) Regarding the issue of hardwired vs portable - if you have the portable at the pedestal, it will protect your power cord as well, whereas the hardwired unit at the converter protects only the items downstream from it inside the unit. And like some replies above, I would much rather have a burned up protector out by the pedestal than inside my camper back in a dark hole behind the converter. In my particular unit, the power input connection is at the extreme rear on the road side, while the converter is 20 ft away near the middle on the curb side - a lot of wire to potentially burn up inside the camper.

4) JFYI, I have a separate insurance policy on the trailer alone, with the same company as the TV. It was very little more expensive than just taking the automatic liability that is conferred on a towed unit by the insurance covering the TV, and covers a lot more, such as the surge protector in question.

5) Lastly, I only made this inquiry to see if I would have to foot the entire bill for replacement if the protector were stolen. Now that I know, it seems like a no-brainer to go ahead with the portable, with the assurance that my max out-of-pocket will be $100 JMHO

[rbrumfield]

Originally Posted by tinlizzie23

2) As for the scenario of the protector shutting off power while you are away - the one I have in mind (PI EMS-PT50C) will re-close the circuit after a couple of minutes to allow the A/C compressor to reset. If the problem is still there, such as low voltage, it will shut off again. I would much rather come back to a refrig full of spoiled food than to have the A/C or the converter ruined.

I am not sure if your unit has an auto feature on the frig to switch to gas if the electric goes out but if it does I would suggest that you leave it on auto switchover. My neighbor at my seasonal site in WV set his on electric only and when the power went out for a few days during last years deracho storm in WV he had a real mess. I suggest that he leave it on auto switchover and he said that he had learned his lesson. JFYI

[tinlizzie23]

rbrumfield, you have a good point. Didn't think about that when writing my post. Will try to remember when in that situation.

[westom]

Originally Posted by rbrumfield

I saw a 30AMP Surge Protector after it took a surge in TX last year. I have to agree with Grumpy I do not want it inside of my fiver.

Again, you are confusing two completely different devices for two completely different anomalies.

Over voltage (>132) and undervoltage (<104) disconnects from AC mains, It takes almost forever (milliseconds or seconds). If that device tried to stop the other surge (ie lightning), then the other surge will increase voltage as necessary (thousands of volts) to blow through that protector.

The other protector operates in microseconds. Does not disconnnect anything. Completely ignores undervoltage and overvoltage. Is for another type of surge that threaten everything inside an RV.

First protector (hardwired inside) needs protection only possible with the second protector (attached to a pedestal). Anomalies addressed by the first protector are completely ignored by the second protector. Two completely different devices that, unfortunately, share a similar name. And are for completely different anomalies that also, unfortunately, share a similar name. A differences are made obvious by numbers even provided in specifications.

[Raugustin]

Hi Westom,

Your are correct, they are two distinct devices, however, the higher priced protectors do cover off both of these anomalies. What we must consider is that there are breakers that protect against over current which is caused by a short circuit or sustained ondervoltage. It is the under voltage or brown out condition that is the problem today, over voltage (not surge or transient voltage) is not common. Most motorized equipment such as compressors are designed with thermal protection and are also underrated to 80% of there actual capacity....that is by code, in fact all regulated electrical equipment is built and designed with the 80% factor by code. The cables that connect the trailer are also capable of carrying 125%of there rating. So in essence most equipment is already protected. The catastrophic failures are caused by surges or transient voltage anomalies that are very quick and will damage all equipment electronics are especially susceptible due to the characteristics of the components, these spikes also have the ability to weaken the insulation of motors and windings of other equipment and are usually protected against by installing crowbar circuits or cheaper one- time use by MOV's. These MOV's can be simply added for penny's and will protect as well as any of the surge equipment that has been discussed.

Regards,

Ron

Originally Posted by westom

Again, you are confusing two completely different devices for two completely different anomalies.

Over voltage (>132) and undervoltage (<104) disconnects from AC mains, It takes almost forever (milliseconds or seconds). If that device tried to stop the other surge (ie lightning), then the other surge will increase voltage as necessary (thousands of volts) to blow through that protector.

The other protector operates in microseconds. Does not disconnnect anything. Completely ignores undervoltage and overvoltage. Is for another type of surge that threaten everything inside an RV.

First protector (hardwired inside) needs protection only possible with the second protector (attached to a pedestal). Anomalies addressed by the first protector are completely ignored by the second protector. Two completely different devices that, unfortunately, share a similar name. And are for completely different anomalies that also, unfortunately, share a similar name. A differences are made obvious by numbers even provided in specifications.