Mean dogs

[2021JayFlight28BHS]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

It's such a simple but often ignored concept. And, unfortunately, the end result is exactly the situation you described. You also hear the "but my dog never" phrase used a lot when these subjects come up. Those unfortunately are also the very same owners that are often involved in preventable dog bites and attacks.

I've owned and handled highly trained GSD's since 1998. My current GSD is a 6 year old straight back double coat. He is Schutzhund trained by a company called Superior K-9's. This includes both off leash and on leash skills, tracking, protection, etc. For those unfamiliar with Schutzhund training, I invite you to take a look at www.germanshepherddog.com

With that said, I will NOT ever allow that dog off leash in public period. Anyone who has ever trained or handled a dog at this level will tell you that they don't 100% always respond the way you expect them to. That is why we have to constantly work with them, practice skills, run drills, etc. Dogs are not rational thinking animals. They simply respond to stimuli. In that, even the most highly trained dogs can react negatively at any given time.

Jagger, my current GSD, will work off leash drills at home almost perfectly all the time. If I bring him to an event, in an arena with other dogs and handlers, will he do the same? Sometimes he does well. Other times not so much. Did the dog forget the skill sets? No, he or I simply didn't handle the new stimuli well in that case. It may have been smells, sounds, lights, or practically anything that got him off track. But the fact is, something created a distraction that caused that dog to not behave in the manner that I as the handler could predict or fix via command in that moment.

That brings me to campgrounds and the "but my dog" people that I mentioned earlier. Just because a dog behaves perfectly at home off leash, doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to do the same at a campground surrounded by a vast array of different stimuli. All dogs, regardless of size, breed, or level of training simply can make mistakes or react negatively at any time. To allow any dog off leash and out of the control of its owner in a place like a campground is simply a disaster waiting to happen.

Now, I'm not suggesting that people stop bringing their dogs camping. Rather, by following something as simple as a leash policy, we can make camping a much safer and enjoyable activity for all of us, including the dog.

For fun, I've attached a couple pics of my little guy.

Well said! Beautiful dog.

[Goweb]

Well said! We have a somewhat dominate Golden Retriever and I trust her implicitly at home, with our grandkids and other people but when it comes to dogs, she displays dominate traits - direct eye contact, for one, so I’m always careful around other dogs that she doesn’t know well. Too many people treat their dogs like humans instead of recognizing their barely buried instincts.

[16WhiteColly]

Being highly allergic to dogs, I would have to make sure that dog never attacked again, for sure.

[Camper_bob]

I carry and see a scar on my face, right between my mouth and my chin. I see it every day in the mirror. It even itches sometimes. How did I get it? The family dog. A dog that by all accounts was dumber than a box of rocks, but never hurt anyone before that day. I was maybe 4 years old, and the dog was hiding under the couch. Don't remember why, but I do remember laying down on the floor (can still all but feel the carpet under my hands, elbows and feet to this day). I got in that dog's face to "give him some love", and in one quick swipe he tore off a part of my face. I was rushed to the ER, and the doctor patched me up best he could. EVERY DAY, at 42 years of age (and for the rest of my life), I see that scar. Sometimes it still itches. It took everything my dad had in his guts and his brains not to put a bullet in that dog's skull the moment we got back from the hospital. End of the day, it wasn't the dog's fault. I provoked him. I know this now, but it doesn't change the fact that there was no love lost years later when I discovered him dead in the garage (natural causes).

Does that story give me a unique perspective? I think so.

My first dog all of my own was a shelter dog; a border collie mix. Don't know what he was mixed with, so we called him "wonder mutt"; we "wonder" what he was. He grew to a ripe old age of 15 years. Was the absolute sweetest dog you'd ever know. And even he bit me once (never anyone else, just me). He was around when my son was born, and was SUPER sweet with him. We trained them BOTH very well. The day I brought my son home from the hospital, the dog and I were sitting alone in the living room, my newborn son still sitting in his car seat. I was exhausted from the birth, worried about what all was yet to come, reflecting in that brief and rare moment of solitude and silence; that dog got up off the floor where he was laying next to my new born son, walked over to me, and gently licked my face, as if to say "it'll be okay, I got you".

He was fairly well trained, but other animals were something he could simply not resist. Not that he wanted to attack them, he just wanted to kiss them and sniff their butt. He couldn't care less about their human companions. But the owner of a dog walking by doesn't know that when he sees a 65 lb dog running at him/her. So if he was outside the camper, he was on a leash 99% of the time. At home, he knew all our neighbors and they knew him, and he knew exactly where his yard ended, so he spent more time "off-leash" at home (after he earned that right). Outside of that, he was on a leash under physical and voice control.

Now we have a Corgi puppy. Honestly, he's an absolute jerk of a dog, but he's figuring it out. He's the most willful and stubborn dog I've ever worked with. He still nips at us (per his "herding" instinct), and we work on that training EVERY DAY. He stays on his leash more than 99% of the time, and only until recently that includes at home.

I agree, dogs only do what they've been programmed to do. Either through instinct or through training. And nothing is EVER certain. It's an animal, and animals can be unpredictable.

So, I don't care if it's the most highly trained animal ever, keep him/her on a leash. A well-trained animal doesn't mind being on a leash anyway (my corgi has come to expect it and gives me a look like "where's my leash" if he gets some freedom), so why not?

The human companions need at least as much training as their animal "children". Our dog's trainer tells me that every time we talk. "you know I'm training YOU as much as I'm training that dog, right?" To which I respond "No, I need MORE training than he does!"

[us71na]

Originally Posted by JFlightRisk

The one thing we've observed is if another pup walks by us, our dog will bark at it, but they usually don't bark back. Conversely, if we're walking ours, he doesn't bark at dogs at campsites, but they do bark at him. It's a territorial/protective response, I believe. No one seems to have any issues with that.

As long as you and other dog owners allow your pets to bark at passing dogs or people without correction they will continue to do so. My dog does not bark or growl at passing campers because when he did, he was told sternly NO!, enforced by a jerk n the leash, after a few times he just watched them walk by. He continues to do so to this day, even with dogs walking past our home property. You have to be the boss (top dog), if you aren't they will be.

[JFlightRisk]

I can relate a little to Camper_bob, and his Corgi. We are on our second, both of which we've had since they were 12 weeks old, and both from the same lineage and home breeder. Two very different animals, each with their own minds, but neither would be aggressive towards anyone. We had our first Corgi for 14 wonderful years. Right from the beginning, I would get in their face while they ate, and played with toys. I think, in our case, that taught them patience and tolerance.

My BIL got one from Florida 10 years ago, and she has a completely different personality. Not aggressive, just different. Just like the differences between our first, and the one we have now. They are VERY strong willed, protective, and can really be stubborn, oh, and vocal. At least ours is. There are lots folks that walk their dogs through our neighborhood. There are only two he doesn't like at all. There are several he can't wait to see when they come by. Just like people. Some you like, and some you don't.

There are many great dogs, and some not so nice. Ours is not our property, he's a member of the family, soon to turn 7 years old in a few days. Because of our age, he'll be the last companion we'll have, and will be missed dearly when his time comes.

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum...

[Ericl]

As a norm dogs can be unpredictable Which I’m totally cool with, if the dog comes into youR space or your animals space they become the aggressor. If I fear for the life of my dog or myself the aggressor dog will be takin down

[jfk69]

I need to let my wife read this thread. In spite of my constant nagging, she rarely will put the dog on a leash at the campsite. I will say this, our dog is a 5 year old Lab. She is our fifth lab. All but one have been exceptionally well behaved dogs. Docile, absolutely non-aggressive, obedient to a fault, and members of the family. The one outlier was the one who was born (we used to breed them) when our boys were little. She had all of the above traits except she couldn’t be counted on to be as obedient and suffered horrible separation anxiety. We attribute it to not getting quite as much attention as all the others due to having infants/toddlers during her growing years.

Back to the current pup...she is incredibly well behaved and is my wife’s shadow. She ignores other dogs at all times, whether in camp or out and about with us. Never barks at other dogs and shows no interest when they bark at her. Her only interests are my wife and her ball. Responds immediately to commands. With that said, rules are rules, and I keep telling my wife to leash her in camp (she is leashed when walking in the campground). I just keep reminding her that not all dogs are that way, and you never know what another dog will do or how they will act/respond. This thread is a great reminder. And in the fwiw, I have generally seen the ankle biters being far bigger problems than the larger breeds with a few exceptions. I always tell my wife that the smaller breeds have the Napoleon syndrome in spades...

[Midnightmoon]

Moderator's Note

Pardon the pun, but the Site-Team is going to be keeping this thread on a "Short Leash".

In all seriousness, our Community Rules prohibit posts that exhibit fear-mongering, threats, and anti-social content. Posts in this thread that include direct or implied threats to animals or animal owners are not permitted and will be deleted by the Site-Team without warning or further explanation.

Midnightmoon

Site-Team

[muckinfuss]

When I was in my formative years, somewhere along the way it was an assumed and a learned truth that people who couldn't raise tame, controlled dogs were not capable of raising tame, controlled children.

Retractable leashes that aren't retracted. Incessant barking. Charging at passers by. Off leash just because the campsite is 'theirs'.

Due to my age, I can say that these pet parents came along well after my formative years. I can see that truth of well behaved pets indicate well behaved children clearly ... plain as day...and daily.

[Siamese]

We stayed at a campground in Michigan's U.P. this fall, and witnessed someone walking their small dog on a leash while another camper was walking two Huskies without leashes.

The two Huskies attacked the small dog. Not pretty.

Hey folks, how about keeping those dogs on a leash.

When I was nine, my parents got me a Shetland Sheepdog, and two books about training it. I read both books, and set about teaching Toby to come when he was called. And I mean absolutely come when he was called. To sit, shake hands, speak, sit, not bother and sniff and jump up on guests, and wait for his food while I put it on the floor and gave him the command "okay". He was a well trained, happy dog.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a well trained dog. People seem to get a dog, house train it, and call it good enough. I have friends with two large brown dogs who will tell you they're trained, and come when called. Nope. Not hardly. They'll call them, and if the dog's in the mood they'll go to their owner. Otherwise they ignore the command. Based on my own experience, most dogs are reasonably tame, but definitely not trained.

Certainly not the dog's fault.

[CAG]

What bugs me most about dogs off lead is the owners, who if you mention anything, get more rabid than the dog. Firstly some people cannot, or more likely will not follow rules of any kind and secondly they do not take constructive criticism at all. I have had a few of the second working for me over the years but they did not work for me long and that is a different story.



The other issue that probably has been mentioned here but is lost in the long thread is leaving your dog in the RV and going off for a jaunt. The dog may not bark when you are around, but be a major annoyance when you are gone. Some people do not get that one either.

[muckinfuss]

Originally Posted by CAG

The dog may not bark when you are around, but be a major annoyance when you are gone. Some people do not get that one either.

Unless you appear really capable of holding your own I wouldn't suggest the following, but taking a phone video of the disruption and letting the neighbor view it upon return would(correction: should) certainly make them think twice about making it a habit.

[CAG]

Originally Posted by muckinfuss

Unless you appear really capable of holding your own I wouldn't suggest the following, but taking a phone video of the disruption and letting the neighbor view it upon return would(correction: should) certainly make them think twice about making it a habit.

And in all honesty I think many do not know their dog does that and as I mentioned people today do not take constructive criticism well so trying to inform them, in the politest way possible, falls on deaf ears.

[Midnightmoon]

This latest discussion of when the owners leave reminds me of this clip from "Secret Life of Pets". You may have to click the "watch this video on YouTube" link to get it to play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_u456zQtkY

[Vista]

Originally Posted by Mikayles

My Mini Schnauzer was attacked twice at separate parks this year by really aggressive pitbull and the other was a boxer while on our walks. Any one else noticing the parks seem to be relaxing the No aggressive dog breeds policy?
Fortunately he is fast and just helicopters around me when it happens lol. Both times the dogs were off leash.

We get it.

You've prescribed dog "breeds" in to good dog (mini schnauzer) and bad dog (pitbull and boxer) categories.

While I find most dogs in RV parks an annoyance, I'd much rather share space with a boxer than a mini schanuzer. Frankly, everything except Golden Retrievers should be prohibited.

See what I did there?

[Rodek]

Sadly there will always be people who don't follow the rules when it comes to their pets...and quite frankly any rules for that matter. Sometimes people are just jerks, lazy or selfish. This fact can be applied to pretty much any subject.

To combat this, I try my hardest to not be part of the problem and teach my son the same.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Rodek

Sadly there will always be people who don't follow the rules when it comes to their pets...and quite frankly any rules for that matter. Sometimes people are just jerks, lazy or selfish. This fact can be applied to pretty much any subject.

To combat this, I try my hardest to not be part of the problem and teach my son the same.

+1

Rules are rules and are in place for a reason. If you don't like it, you can lobby to have it changed, but that doesn't give you the right to break the rules without consequence. You don't get an exception just because you disagree with it. Not even if you have a highly trained super-dog who unequivocally obeys your every command no matter what. Because it's not always about YOUR dog.

You think the speed limit is too low, you exceed it, you get a ticket. You CHOSE to break a rule/law, you should EXPECT the consequences. You breaking the rule is not going to change the rule, in fact it has the more likely effect of validating its existence. And for most rules, it's barely a minor inconvenience to operate within them.

In the case of leash rules/laws, the consequences for NOT abiding can be absolutely disastrous. My dog is generally very peaceful and friendly. But who knows how others' dogs behave? If I have my dog on a leash and he's attacked, I have a means to remove him from the situation relatively efficiently (I can literally yank him up by his leash and have him in my arms in no time). If he decides he wants to chase after someone else's dog, he can't because he's leashed. Do I trust my dog? Mostly, but I have experience where that trust was violated. Do I trust someone else's dog? Absolutely not. What if my dog decided he didn't like the way that kid smelled and decided to attack him? That blood would be on my hands, and I WILL NOT let that happen. EVER. Why is it that makes me "more responsible"; it should just be "the way".

Choices have consequences. Some of those consequences, you REALLY don't want to deal with. This is what I've been trying to teach my own son too.

I guess I just don't understand what's so difficult or inconvenient about keeping your dog on a leash? How do the people who do that justify it to themselves? Do they change their behavior after an incident? Or do they just say "oh, well, that's just Fido being Fido"?

[mopluv]

Seems many campgrounds state the rules on paperwork when you check in but don't enforce the rules as written. Dogs, noise, and so many more just go unnoticed by management. Just not right.

[Choppered]

Yes i have a 1 eyed Yorkie due to a pit bull attack at a campground. I guess you know how i feel about the breed and the people who think its ok to bring them in public..