Negative reviews

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by fieldstreamfarm

8. Loses 2/3 of fresh after while traveling just 50 miles

Oh, by the way, Jayco says you're supposed to travel with empty tanks.

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by pconroy

Oh, by the way, Jayco says you're supposed to travel with empty tanks.

In Jayco's defense, after a social media storm they revised their position on that bit of genius. You really have to be there to fully appreciate how stupid works. The "Peter Principle" in corporate hierarchy holds that people are promoted to the level of their incompetence. That being the case however, the brain surgeon who made that pronouncement by today's standard for incompetence hasn't likely reached his or her zenith. Keep in mind the new standard for operational excellence is how much profit will the shareholders get to diivy up this past quarter. That brain surgeon doesn't give an overripe fig what the prospects are for the company 10 years from now, their career prospects are contingent on how the company is dping here and now, both they and the shareholders are moving on the minute another oppurtunity presents itself. That's not just Jayco, that's how it is in a tertiary (service) economy and that's how "c" students have come to run the world.

[craigav]

Speaking of the recent Jayco debacle regarding traveling with empty tanks, the reason that came to be was because of one or more reports of the tanks breaking their straps and\or similar damage.

In any case, for those who have made and shared PDI lists as well as lists for items to check on a regular basis, I believe it would be of value to add checking the tanks and their support straps\brackets PDI and during routine maintenance checks.

and Jayco should set expectations that these straps may break...

~CA

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by craigav

Speaking of the recent Jayco debacle regarding traveling with empty tanks, the reason that came to be was because of one or more reports of the tanks breaking their straps and\or similar damage.

In any case, for those who have made and shared PDI lists as well as lists for items to check on a regular basis, I believe it would be of value to add checking the tanks and their support straps\brackets PDI and during routine maintenance checks.

and Jayco should set expectations that these straps may break...

~CA

The expectation should be that anything can fail, my expectation would be that someone did the math and determined before hand that the straps holding the water tank on my vehicle are adequate to support the weight. It's not exactly rocket science, it's exactly engineering. If you can strap a 70 gal. fuel tank to withstand both the weight of the fuel and the forces created by the inertia of moving liquid in the tank, you can likewise strap a 70 gal. water tank to do the same. Would it be reasonable for Jayco to set my expectations by pointing out my fuel tank could fall out from under my Motorhome and therefore I should only ever put half a tank of fuel in it? Of course it wouldn't and neither should it be reasonable for Jayco to disemcumber themselves from responsibility when the straps supporting the freshwater tank are not engineered to support the contents of a full tank of water. Otherwise why would you have a 70 gal. tank and not a 50gal. or 25 gal. Why have a 70 gal. tank if the only way you can fill it to capacity is a catch 22 scenario where you can't be moving and obviously then be at a water source, in which case you don't need a water tank.

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

That's not just Jayco, that's how it is in a tertiary (service) economy and that's how "c" students have come to run the world.

I disagree. IMHO, it's the MBAs that have ruined and run the world. If they got that far, they are probably better than C's.

It's not lack of knowledge, it's lack of integrity.

[craigav]

I think we all agree that we "should" expect a very high quality product with all manufacturing issues taken care of prior to an RV's delivery to the customer.

However, such expectations are not inline with reality, therefore even if we all agree that there "shouldn't" be any issues the reality is that there are issues with what I suspect is close to 100% of all RV's sold (many small issues I suspect).

Therefore, I firmly believe that if a new RV purchaser was to expect many issues and if those expectations were for more issues than the purchaser actually encountered, then the RV'rs satisfaction level would be different and more realistic with the reality that all new RV's (most all) will have some issues. ~CA

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by craigav

I think we all agree that we "should" expect a very high quality product with all manufacturing issues taken care of prior to an RV's delivery to the customer.

However, such expectations are not inline with reality, therefore even if we all agree that there "shouldn't" be any issues the reality is that there are issues with what I suspect is close to 100% of all RV's sold (many small issues I suspect).

Therefore, I firmly believe that if a new RV purchaser was to expect many issues and if those expectations were for more issues than the purchaser actually encountered, then the RV'rs satisfaction level would be different and more realistic with the reality that all new RV's (most all) will have some issues. ~CA

When I was a little kid, Dad always bought new cars, not second hand. The first thing Mom would do was put a pad and pen in the glove compartment so she could itemize "defects" to be corrected at the first oil change.

Back then, defects were accepted as a way of life. Today everything is different. We have robots building things. We have computers and CDC machines making parts to tolerances closer than could ever been imagined. SPC, TQM, Six Sigma and the like have ensured continuous improvement. The consumer has also been educated to demand quality.

Apparently, the RV consumer has been willing to accept a lesser standard.

[craigav]

Some are willing to accept the lower standards and others were never aware that lower standards are common with many new RV's compared to the purchaser's expectations of a higher quality product.

Which circles me back around to what I would call "Realistic expectations" based on the reality of the reports with many issues encountered with new RV's and again not that anyone would prefer to not having their expectations met, or even that those expectations shouldn't be met, just that not having any issues with a new RV is not reality. ~CA

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by craigav

I think we all agree that we "should" expect a very high quality product with all manufacturing issues taken care of prior to an RV's delivery to the customer.

However, such expectations are not inline with reality, therefore even if we all agree that there "shouldn't" be any issues the reality is that there are issues with what I suspect is close to 100% of all RV's sold (many small issues I suspect).

Therefore, I firmly believe that if a new RV purchaser was to expect many issues and if those expectations were for more issues than the purchaser actually encountered, then the RV'rs satisfaction level would be different and more realistic with the reality that all new RV's (most all) will have some issues. ~CA

That's not the issue, the issue is the problems not being corrected and/or not being corrected in a timely manner. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the salesman tells the buyer before closing, "Hey you know that 70 gal. water tank in your RV, you can expect it could fall out from under the vehicle if you fill it up and, you know, go somewhere. And while we 're setting expectations, chances are like, overwhelmingly likely your seats and cushions will start peeling in a few years, if your slide out is over 10 ft. wide you can fully expect it will fail because the systems motor, gears and tracks weren't designed for the heavier slides. Before I forget too, get a 2nd. mortgage and find you a good dentist, 'cause this dude is going to ride like a mule wagon on a wash board dirt road, and keep a tight grip on the wheel, just in case a big truck comes flying by like a bat out of hades. I promise when you get home after your first white knuckle adventure on this baby you'll be hunting you up some suspension upgrades.

[craigav]

caveat emptor
ĕmp′tôr″
noun
The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.


I would highly advise everyone not to simply take a salesman's word on anything he is selling, and for sure not anything that is important regarding what you are purchasing, not that you shouldn't be able to do so, just that doing so isn't wise.

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by craigav

I would highly advise everyone not to simply take a salesman's word on anything he is selling, and for sure not anything that is important regarding what you are purchasing, not that you shouldn't be able to do so, just that doing so isn't wise.

Buying or trading items have been like this since day one in this world. Even back when buying camels or goats or whatever. Nothing has changed. Ultimately, we are all responsible for our purchases. Just go into any dealings with the best info you can find, and have both eyes wide open.

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by craigav

caveat emptor
ĕmp′tôr″
noun
The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.


I would highly advise everyone not to simply take a salesman's word on anything he is selling, and for sure not anything that is important regarding what you are purchasing, not that you shouldn't be able to do so, just that doing so isn't wise.

Caveat Venditor
The axiom ( self evident truth) in commerce that there is an implied warranty of merchantability which is encumbent upon the seller. Such an implied warranty of merchantability would be selling a "Motorhome" with a 70 gallon water tank, implying that you can, I don't know, go somewhere with water in the tank. There is likewise an implied warranty of merchantability which holds that you can drive with 70 gals of fuel in a 70 gal. fuel tank, that your steering wheel won't come off in your hands, your brakes will work, and other silly little trifling things that a buyer being most beware might miss.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

Caveat Venditor
The axiom ( self evident truth) in commerce that there is an implied warranty of merchantability which is encumbent upon the seller. Such an implied warranty of merchantability would be selling a "Motorhome" with a 70 gallon water tank, implying that you can, I don't know, go somewhere with water in the tank. There is likewise an implied warranty of merchantability which holds that you can drive with 70 gals of fuel in a 70 gal. fuel tank, that your steering wheel won't come off in your hands, your brakes will work, and other silly little trifling things that a buyer being most beware might miss.

Are you sure that when you purchase an RV (or an auto) that what you sign states somewhere (or even if not) that there are other warranties that the salesman may have implied to you or that you as the purchaser believe you should have and of which are not contained in this legally binding agreement? LOL, really? Not to argue the point, but if it is not in writing and agreed upon by both the seller and the purchaser, or required by law, then it doesn't exist.

I highly encourage you (anyone) to not purchase anything with the thought that there are other warranties above and beyond what is documented and agreed upon (both parties signatures) in the sales agreement(s). Which of course doesn't mean that the seller may not go above and beyond to keep a satisfied customer of course with something that is not covered in the warranty, as certainly goodwill is a huge component for having repeat customers.

Keep in mind that I am not saying that there aren't state laws, perhaps federal laws as well that have to be honored by a seller regarding warranties.

~CA

[Onyrlef]

Originally Posted by craigav

Are you sure that when you purchase an RV (or an auto) that what you sign states somewhere (or even if not) that there are other warranties that the salesman may have implied to you or that you as the purchaser believe you should have and of which are not contained in this legally binding agreement? LOL, really? Not to argue the point, but if it is not in writing and agreed upon by both the seller and the purchaser, then it doesn't exist.

I highly encourage you (anyone) to not purchase anything with the thought that there are other warranties above and beyond what is documented and agreed upon (both parties signatures) in the sales agreement(s). Which of course doesn't mean that the seller may not go above and beyond to keep a satisfied customer of course with something that is not covered in the warranty, as certainly goodwill is a huge component for having repeat customers. ~CA

LOL's not withstanding , you're just wrong. An implied warranty of merchantability is a legal precedent whereby litigates can claim harm based on the presumption by an ordinary ie., prudent, consumer that the product will perform as it it is implied that it should. That why it's termed "let the seller beware" the caution to the seller being the buyer may have certain rights which supercede the parameters you may have arbitrarily layed out in your warranty. It has nothing to do with what a salesman said, nor is it solely contingent on what is contained in the wriiten warranty and has not one thing to do with the goodwill of the seller. But don't take my word for it, educate yourself, google can be your friend.
Meantime I'm not arguing a fact. I like to observe the maxim that when wrestling a pig, you both only get muddy and he likes it.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

LOL's not withstanding , you're just wrong. An implied warranty of merchantability is a legal precedent whereby litigates can claim harm based on the presumption by an ordinary ie., prudent, consumer that the product will perform as it it is implied that it should. That why it's termed "let the seller beware" the caution to the seller being the buyer may have certain rights which supercede the parameters you may have arbitrarily layed out in your warranty. It has nothing to do with what a salesman said, nor is it solely contingent on what is contained in the wriiten warranty and has not one thing to do with the goodwill of the seller. But don't take my word for it, educate yourself, google can be your friend.
Meantime I'm not arguing a fact. I like to observe the maxim that when wrestling a pig, you both only get muddy and he likes it.

You quoted me prior to my subsequent edit as I wanted to clearly state that there are laws that have to be honored as well (I thought this understanding was already implied...lol). I never intended to imply otherwise that most, if not all states also have laws regarding warranties, along with Federal laws, that was outside my point which is and remains to be that if you believe you have an additional warranty simply because the salesman said something to you such as this RV will last 50 years, or any huffing, and even if he told you something very specifically is warranted and those statements are not actually written into your warranty and\or the contract you signed, or are otherwise required by law, then you don't have such a warranty. ~CA

[bucko]

Originally Posted by FPM III

So, who do you believe does still make a quality, well-built, relatively trouble-free unit for the money? I can't seem to find anyone who does. Even RVers I personally know who own a high-end class "A" are not without their share of problems.

My soon to be 20 YO Eagle 266 FBS has stood the test of time. Every once in a while, I get that itch to maybe think about replacing it, but when the DW and I go to the RV show to look, we're brought back to the reality that there is nothing they build today that will provide the overall satisfaction of what we already have.

Unless something disastrous happens to our TT, it will be with us to the end.

I totally agree with this post. I own a nice used 2005 Class C, and while it had some small issues, mostly due to previous owners doing bad shade tree repairs, I've resolved those, and have a good quality older RV. Reading all of the latest posts here, I would not invest in a newer RV, especially at this time of higher interest rates and looming threat of a poor future (recession).

[LuckyDuck]

Originally Posted by Onyrlef

LOL's not withstanding , you're just wrong. An implied warranty of merchantability is a legal precedent whereby litigates can claim harm based on the presumption by an ordinary ie., prudent, consumer that the product will perform as it it is implied that it should. That why it's termed "let the seller beware" the caution to the seller being the buyer may have certain rights which supercede the parameters you may have arbitrarily layed out in your warranty. It has nothing to do with what a salesman said, nor is it solely contingent on what is contained in the wriiten warranty and has not one thing to do with the goodwill of the seller. But don't take my word for it, educate yourself, google can be your friend.
Meantime I'm not arguing a fact. I like to observe the maxim that when wrestling a pig, you both only get muddy and he likes it.

Yawn

[gypsmjim]

Originally Posted by LuckyDuck

Yawn

An implied warranty should not be scoffed at. I've used it several times. When the vendor knows you are serious, he's more likely to fix things.

Now, RV dealers and manufacturers may have a different view.....LOL. It's all about how much you respect your customers.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by gypsmjim

An implied warranty should not be scoffed at. I've used it several times. When the vendor knows you are serious, he's more likely to fix things.

Now, RV dealers and manufacturers may have a different view.....LOL. It's all about how much you respect your customers.

This thread went on a tangent earlier as there are two different concepts regarding implied warranties, first is the legally required implied warranties (which I was not commenting about) and the second is with what a salesman implies to you about your purchase and related to warranties.

My point remains the same, Don't simply take the salesman's word on your warranty coverage (or anything else such as "I guarantee your 1/2 ton p/u truck can pull this 40' RV"), do your due diligence and have any warranty statement(s) that was implied to you by the salesman documented in your sales contract, otherwise and unless documented in the contract or is otherwise required by law, the salesman's implied warranty statements hold very little if any value.
~CA

[First Rodeo]

Bought it in February. Last night when I went into the camper it was 73 degrees and the thermostat was set to 72 and the AC was not running. The front bedroom was much hotter. I moved the thermostat to 71 degrees. Still no AC running. I set it back to 72 and turned the fan to high to hopefully equalize the temperature and went to sleep. Several hours later I woke up and it was 67.5 degrees in the camper with the AC running full blast. This morning it was 65 degrees in the camper before I turned the AC off. I later turned it back on and it appeared to run correctly. When I returned to the camper about 4 pm this after noon, the AC was running and it was 84 degrees in the camper. WTF? This afternoon my wife and daughter were trapped in the camper. Apparently when the screen door was attached, some certified employee put too many uggaduggas on the impact driver when installing the screen door and stripped out ALL of the screws attaching the screen door to the camper. It just kind of flops in the breeze and doesn't work as advertised.

Factory Warranty / Support was not available today when their product failed miserably.