Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-21-2016, 10:17 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Dustdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Orange County
Posts: 591
I think it's a matter of perspective and expectations. Any product is worth what the market is willing to pay for that product, and the benefits it delivers. What the RV industry is trying to do is to balance the need for fuel efficiency and affordability, with the need for a rugged house on wheels that can hold up to the pounding of some number of miles of highway use. It also has to be manufacturable. They could build a bulletproof RV which would almost never break, come loose, or fail somehow, and it would cost $350,000 and weigh 57,000 lbs dry. It might also cost a fortune if you ever did have to work on it, because structures built like a tank often have to come halfway apart to get to the source of a problem. So, the perspective is that they actually walk a very fine line of their designs either becoming too unaffordable vs becoming too flimsy and unreliable. When they get in a hurry because they are being overwhelmed with orders and falling farther behind every day, it can affect build quality significantly. Problems just get an extra screw instead of a real fix. Damage goes unnoticed until after you receive it.

The other side of that coin is that RVs have become quite a bit more expensive than many of us can remember. Used to be, $25k was a lot for a motorhome. Now, many of them actually sell for $150-300k, and are far more sophisticated. We demand more creature comforts and gadgets. Technology advancements one year become product offerings the next. Because we demand it. We forget that we "only" paid $150k for that motorhome or 5er, and that the manufacturer and dealer are not actually in business to make a profit, they are in business to please us first, and break even or lose money next, so we don't have to pay any more for that coach than we did. Everybody wants something for nothing, even if they refuse to admit it. We want to grab as much as we can for that money, and we tend to talk ourselves into the idea that this "hobby" is really not costing us as much as it is. Our attitude often becomes that if we are investing this much money into a new product, it at least ought to be perfect in every way. In reality, manufacturing tolerances, the need for speed in assembly, mistakes, un-noticeable faults, coffee breaks, new employees barely trained, loss of experienced employees, natural disasters, changing designs and procedures, all are things that get in the way of a product that is absolutely consistently perfect from one unit to the next. Add to that the fact that any RV manufacturer relies on dozens, if not hundreds, of other manufacturers to produce and deliver a perfect product every time.

Just like the auto industry, the manufacturer is typically doing in-process inspections or testing, and a quick final test to ensure functionality. They do rely fairly heavily on their process control, and the dealer network for pointing out the hidden faults or unreliable components. Many products designed and built to be used part-time have infant mortality issues, which can only be discovered with a little actual use, by the customer. The factory, and even the dealer, cannot run your oven for three and a half hours to test longer-term reliability. Same with the furnace, faucets, AC, water pump, generator, electric brakes, etc etc. Many components are value-engineered to deliver big features at low cost, with intermittent use in mind, not full-time use as in the home or business environment.

Like a lot of other things, we get what we pay for. There are RVs designed for full-time use. Others, not so much. Our expectations going in should include a review of such things, and an honest real-world assessment as to whether that Atwood oven was meant to be used twice a day for 300 days a year. We should also keep in mind that message boards and owners' forums are going to draw the 10% of owners who are either royally pissed off or extremely happy, and not a lot of people in the 90% who are generally satisfied with their purchase. So, the perspective we can easily get is that Jayco RVs are either perfect, or they are horribly wrong and defective.

The factory warranty is supposed to take care of those unwarranted failures, through a dealer network who is often billing Jayco for the work and the parts. When Jayco begins to see their warranty costs rising, believe me they know what their build quality is without us telling them. They feel it in the bank account. And it's expensive. Doesn't always correct itself overnight, either. But you can bet they track such things, and take steps to correct when they can. Overall customer satisfaction is high for Jayco, over time. They will slip once in a while for the aforementioned reasons. But for the most part, it's a decent gamble to buy a Jayco over many others who truly are building junk. They go out of business every month, it seems. Even for a good solid manufacturer, the road can be rocky sometimes. Luck of the draw in some instances.
__________________

__________________
2006 Jayco Seneca 34SS
2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad
Dustdevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 11:02 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,493
So, I bought my 'brand spanking new' TT a little over a week ago and just got home from my maiden voyage. After putting 600 miles on her over a large variety of roads, from 4000 feet to 12,000 feet elevation, here are my 'major' issues.

1. The hand crank for my wineguard antenna fell off when I tried to use it the 4th or 5th time. Cause - The set screw that holds the entire assembly together wasn't tight enough. Solution - re-tighten it with locktite.

2. The sliding door to my bedroom has a fabric strap with a button on it that is supposed to keep the door secured in the open position for travel. This strap is stapled in place with some fairly large staples which were ripped out of the wall at some point on the road. Solution - replace strap with industrial strength velcro that is screwed and glued where the original strap was.

Not so bad huh?
__________________

__________________
2016 27BHS Elite
2012 F-150 EcoBoost / Max Tow (Sold)
2017 'Blue Jeans' 6.2 F-250 Lariat 4.3 gears.
bansai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 12:24 PM   #23
Site Team
 
norty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 11,740
Most anything you buy, anything, that is sold at retail sells for double or more than double what it cost to manufacturer it.

Marketing costs the purchaser just like all the staples and wood they use.

Without the middle man there would not be much of an economy!
__________________
Moderator
2011 351RLTS Eagle, Mor/Ryde suspension & pin box
06 F350 Lariat PSD, SRW, LB, CC, EGR delete kit, 16K DrawTite hitch, Timbrens, TST TPMS

Can't find what you're looking on JOF? Try:Jayco Owners Forum Custom Google Search
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
norty1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 12:54 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by norty1 View Post
When you buy a rv, unless you have some money left over, You have a new hobby.

As stated, regular maintenance and fixing little problems before they become big problems will become a routine thing. A side benefit is you learn your equipment and know when something is not right.

Well said Norty,

After twenty plus years of RV ownership, I liken the experience to owning a home rather than being a renter with a landlord.

If you have zero interest in learning how to do some basic maintenance, electrical work, carpentry etc. You should probably skip owning an RV and either rent one when you want to go camping or stay in a hotel.

I think many people are under this impression that the RV is static and that nothing will ever change from day one. Just the simple act of driving it down the road causes things to settle and loosen. I fail to understand why people get jacked out of shape over this and cant simply pick up a small set of tools and take care of the problem when it happens rather than let things pile up.

The other thing is that this forum is not a Jayco product. This forum is composed of people who like to RV and enjoy the lifestyle it provides them. It's not a consumer protection agency for people to complain and expect anybody to give a damn. I will happily share my knowledge to help a new user learn about their rig, and try to help them fix things or get help with their dealer, but the guys who just want to come on here with three or four posts and crap in every thread they can are simply looking for attention.

I understand that as well as they are frustrated and have reached a breaking point. But what they miss is that there is nobody here who can help them unless they are willing to provide an accurate description of the problem and are willing to be rational about what is realistic and what is not.

If all you want to do is bash Jayco, or bash your dealer and are only looking to vent you won't find much anybody here will care about.
__________________
2009 F350 CC LB 4WD
2017 Jayco 355MBQS
Rustysocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 03:09 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
popjim52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 156
Its also very difficult in this day and age to determine if the competition has hired guns to post negative things about the Jayco product to help sway buyers from continuing to buy from Jayco.
But then again I have an expensive motorcycle, and because of this some of the guys on the forum think that if one screw or bolt loosens up the owner of the motorcycle company should helicopter someone out immediately to fix the issue instead of them taking a ratchet and socket and tightening it themselves. We are living in a new age. The age of entitlement....
__________________
popjim52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 03:36 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Dustdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Orange County
Posts: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by popjim52 View Post
Its also very difficult in this day and age to determine if the competition has hired guns to post negative things about the Jayco product to help sway buyers from continuing to buy from Jayco.
But then again I have an expensive motorcycle, and because of this some of the guys on the forum think that if one screw or bolt loosens up the owner of the motorcycle company should helicopter someone out immediately to fix the issue instead of them taking a ratchet and socket and tightening it themselves. We are living in a new age. The age of entitlement....
Probably a lot of truth to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norty1 View Post
Most anything you buy, anything, that is sold at retail sells for double or more than double what it cost to manufacturer it.

Marketing costs the purchaser just like all the staples and wood they use.

Without the middle man there would not be much of an economy!
Most assuredly a lot of truth to this.
__________________
2006 Jayco Seneca 34SS
2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad
Dustdevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 04:43 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 973
You can find a forum for any major purchase type products and you will come away thinking they are all junk. It's the way it is since the advent of Internet forums.
__________________
No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln

2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
eldermike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 04:59 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: montreal
Posts: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLHTK-JOE View Post
I think many folks become disappointed in the quality of their RV's because they are looking at the price totally wrong. I don't have exact figures, but just based on some pricing I have seen and what a retired dealer once told me, from manufacturer to dealer there is about a 100% markup. In other words, if your RV has a MSRP of $130,000, sure the dealer can put it on "sale" for $97,500. Most people think they are getting a heck of a deal and they are getting a reduced price for sure. But in reality there is still room in the deal because the dealer probably only paid the manufacturer around $65,000 to $70,000 for that unit in the first place.


So now if you look at what the actual builder of that RV "sold" it to the dealer for maybe your expectations would not be so high for the quality. If the manufacturer can let it go for $65,000, he is still making money on building it, so there is only maybe $45,000 in material and labor involved.


So in summary when you drive off in your new RV that you got on sale for $100,000 it only cost $45,000 to produce so base your expectations on that.
So following this post, one should be happy to walk away from the dealership lot with a bill of sale showing at the bottom line 70k when knowing that the TT worth only 40 k and on top of that the same guy should lower is standard of quality since he got scr...d for 30k ! ?...well , maybe ?
__________________
Jayco Whitehawk 24RBS 2014

Ford F 150 Ecoboost Tow Max 3.73 2014

Equalizer hitch 1000/10000
homer1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2016, 05:06 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
RoyBraddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: King George
Posts: 2,356
I imagine alot of folks will pay alot of money for one of these big road trip RVs and expect them to work flawlessly.

We all know this is never the case and most of us have been around for a long time and develop a good daily maintenance routine to spot all of the basics problems before they occur.

In addition to this I am also smart enough or maybe dumb enough to have some basics PLAN Bs incorporated...

Its not fun getting stranded somewhere down the road. Its much better to get stranded at home hehe...

We have been in the camping mode from way back in the 50's so know somewhat what to expect. I was never rich enough to own one of those big road trip trailers...

I would rather be RV Camping anyway...

Roy Ken
__________________
Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
RoyBraddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2016, 05:40 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Milan
Posts: 153
We picked up our Pinnacle from Colrain last July. Since we have used it every free minute we could, usually at least 10-15 days a month. Colrain did a great job on PDI with me, coach was set up inside, all slides out, both roof units running, TVs on, Fridge cold, ice in the icemaker, everything on and working. They spent probably over 2 hours with me going over every inch, and I still was lost when I got to the campground....Here's what "trouble" we've had in 13+ months:

Carefree awning crushed down on the dining slide first day in a rainshower, (Not Jayco or Colerain's fault, they made good and shipped out a new one, no issues.

No caulk at the bottom of the shower door track....Fixed in a couple minutes, had a tube in the toolbox on the truck.

Coax schematic was crazy, satellite wiring had a splitter, so no feed to the bedroom TV. Called Colerain, and Jayco, and got on here, got drawings, found the splitter, removed it, no problems since.

Last weekend found a drip where the screen filter is on the exit side of the water pump...tightened..

Inverter occasionally goes into E05 fault.(dirty power in the campground), power down, reset, fixed.

That's it...love the coach...year later we still made the right decision.
__________________

__________________
Kevin and Beth Todd
Milan, TN
2016 Pinnacle 38FLSA
2002 Dodge 2500
Kevin and Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dealers, lemons

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia State Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.