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01-17-2018, 07:03 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Orange
Posts: 491
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Propane and propane accessories
I have a question about freezing temperatures and propane.
The question may appear ignorant; please know that we live in SE Texas where it doesn't freeze often. We are currently all in flood recovery, and we are at deep freezing temperatures during the past few nights.
Dh went to start our propane grill today for lunch, and we couldn't get the grill to light. It was like there was no propane getting to the igniter.
Most of my neighbors are in travel trailers while their homes are being rebuilt. I noticed one of my neighbors checking out their propane tanks. When I asked, she told me that their pipes were frozen and that they had no heat and couldn't get their stove in the TT to start.
I looked at their pipes, and I suspected they needed more than our typical wrapping, but it didn't appear that any had busted.
What I don't understand is why we can't get propane. What happened there?
FWIW, we don't normally get temps this low. We have been in the upper teens or low 20s in the area for the last two nights, and we will be in the low 20s tonight. We were above freezing for a few hours today.
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01-17-2018, 07:16 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: LaCrescent, MN
Posts: 3,426
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The freezing point of LP is -45 degrees F. I know that is not your issue. All materials excluding water, shrink in cold temps and if your tanks are low then it may not be getting to the exhaust port to feed your appliance? Make sure that your tanks are full and being in Texas you should not have any LP feed issues unless there is moisture in the lines which may freeze and cause a small block in the feed line. A small freezing point will not burst the pipe. If your tank is full then try feeling or bending the line (unless it is rigid copper) to see if there is a small freezing point.
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01-17-2018, 09:12 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Missoula, Montana
Posts: 704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime
I have a question about freezing temperatures and propane.
The question may appear ignorant; please know that we live in SE Texas where it doesn't freeze often. We are currently all in flood recovery, and we are at deep freezing temperatures during the past few nights.
Dh went to start our propane grill today for lunch, and we couldn't get the grill to light. It was like there was no propane getting to the igniter.
Most of my neighbors are in travel trailers while their homes are being rebuilt. I noticed one of my neighbors checking out their propane tanks. When I asked, she told me that their pipes were frozen and that they had no heat and couldn't get their stove in the TT to start.
I looked at their pipes, and I suspected they needed more than our typical wrapping, but it didn't appear that any had busted.
What I don't understand is why we can't get propane. What happened there?
FWIW, we don't normally get temps this low. We have been in the upper teens or low 20s in the area for the last two nights, and we will be in the low 20s tonight. We were above freezing for a few hours today.
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Just curious if you just had the tank filled. I just had mine filled and the bozo had no idea what he was doing (and he had difficulty with english so I couldn't help him). He filled both of my tanks without opening the 80% fill vent, but instead pumped until it stopped. Furnace nor stove would light so hooked them up to my propane firepit and burned some off. Worked fine after that.
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01-17-2018, 09:21 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,650
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You could have moisture in the tank and that will cause freezing. I have a second garage that I heat from a 500 gallon propane tank, in the past I had a few problems with freezing. Now at the start of the season with an empty tank the propane supplier adds anhydrous methanol before filling and I have never had a freezing problem since. Talk to your propane supplier and see what they can do.
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01-17-2018, 09:42 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,643
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Propane and propane accessories
A Hank Hill reference??
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01-17-2018, 10:00 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVhiker
Propane and propane accessories
A Hank Hill reference??
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Who is Hank Hill
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01-17-2018, 10:25 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: State of
Posts: 425
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Low temps prevent the propane from changing from liquid to gas at a rate that is sufficient for your needs. Exacerbated by tanks that are not full.
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01-17-2018, 10:27 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Surprise
Posts: 2,623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmik Debris
Just curious if you just had the tank filled. I just had mine filled and the bozo had no idea what he was doing (and he had difficulty with english so I couldn't help him). He filled both of my tanks without opening the 80% fill vent, but instead pumped until it stopped. Furnace nor stove would light so hooked them up to my propane firepit and burned some off. Worked fine after that.
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According to the newest regulations, they don't recommend opening the vent screw except on a new tank when purging. This has been a change in the last few years. Most likely you had frost on the value which may of prevented the flow.
It's government at it's best
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01-18-2018, 06:10 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Chicago
Posts: 550
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Parked in the sun?
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01-18-2018, 07:55 AM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: James Island, SC
Posts: 22,771
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Last trip out it was in the 20's. I took a empty tank to have it filled and the attendant could not get it to fill. She said it was to cold and the valve kept freezing.
I took the 2 gallons just in case.
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01-18-2018, 08:07 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Orange
Posts: 491
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My neighbors' FEMA trailer is parked in the sun all day because they are living in it while they repair their house.
My grill tanks are not in the sun at all.
I can't answer for my neighbors, but I know for the grill, we don't have them filled. We switch them out at a propane bin at the grocery store.
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01-18-2018, 08:08 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Orange
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVhiker
Propane and propane accessories
A Hank Hill reference??
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Yes, a Hank Hill reference. Lol
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01-18-2018, 07:16 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Missoula, Montana
Posts: 704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags999
According to the newest regulations, they don't recommend opening the vent screw except on a new tank when purging. This has been a change in the last few years. Most likely you had frost on the value which may of prevented the flow.
It's government at it's best
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I'm in central California for the winter, it was 60 degrees. The sign above the fill setup still showed the step for opening the vent. If anywhere was going to have the latest regulations I say California would. You've got me curious enough to look into this though. Will be burning through more tanks in my time.
***Update
Tried to find the law on this, but everywhere I read fill procedures they state to fill until liquid spews from vent, or fill by weight.
Then I found this on the NFPA site, from over seven years ago:
Published on May 19, 2009
An Overfilling Prevention Device (OPD) is a safety device incorporated into the filling valve of a propane cylinder (i.e., those used on gas grills, RVs, etc.). The device shuts off the flow of gas to a cylinder after 80% capacity has been reached. This limits the potential for release of gas when the cylinder is heated, averting a fire or possible injury.
So it does seem that use of the vent is not necessary since the newer safety valves came into requirement. I still learn stuff.
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"I might be movin' to Montana soon..."
2020 Outdoors RV Glacier Peak Titanium
2013 Eagle 29.5RKS (traded in)
2013 Ford 6.7L diesel F350
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01-18-2018, 07:34 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer330
Who is Hank Hill
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According to The Economist, he is one of the wisest men on television; Hank Hill story.
__________________
There's lots of advice and information in forums... sometimes it is correct. For example, all of my posts are made by a political appointee who got the job as a reward for contributions to my diesel bill.
2011 Jayco 28.5RLS; 2021 Chevy Duramax; Pullrite Superglide Hitch
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01-18-2018, 07:45 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Surprise
Posts: 2,623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmik Debris
I'm in central California for the winter, it was 60 degrees. The sign above the fill setup still showed the step for opening the vent. If anywhere was going to have the latest regulations I say California would. You've got me curious enough to look into this though. Will be burning through more tanks in my time.
***Update
Tried to find the law on this, but everywhere I read fill procedures they state to fill until liquid spews from vent, or fill by weight.
Then I found this on the NFPA site, from over seven years ago:
Published on May 19, 2009
An Overfilling Prevention Device (OPD) is a safety device incorporated into the filling valve of a propane cylinder (i.e., those used on gas grills, RVs, etc.). The device shuts off the flow of gas to a cylinder after 80% capacity has been reached. This limits the potential for release of gas when the cylinder is heated, averting a fire or possible injury.
So it does seem that use of the vent is not necessary since the newer safety valves came into requirement. I still learn stuff.
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I agree that you would think Cali would be a very tough state to do much in, but when I worked at a camp ground in Cali in 2013 they didn't even require being certified to pump propane. Almost every other state I have worked in does...go figure..
To the person switching tanks out at the Box Stores or other places, know your paying about twice as much for propane doing that. First they charge more, second they don't fill the tank, instead of 80% which is standard, they only fill about 60 -65%... Much cheaper to fill a tank from bulk. My 20 lb tanks are about $7.50 to fill my 30 lber is about $11 . Much less than the $18 0r $19 they charge to swap out tanks, plus, I keep my tank which Is in much better condition. With a swaped out tank you have no clue as to the abuse or misuse the tank had withstood...
Happy Camping
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01-18-2018, 07:56 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,737
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20 degrees is not to cold for propane. At -10 degree F, I usually stop using the grill, as the propane does not vaporize fast enough for a full flame on my grill. As for filling the tank, I have had tanks filled when the outside temps are -10. I just bought a new tank, and the filling station, could not purge the tank, as it did not want to vaporize, as it was -16.
Personally I would not use as tank exchange. You have no history of the tank, and you do not know if it is in good shape. Also, you pay a lot more for a tank exchange than to have one filled. Currently in this area tank exchange costs are about $5 more than to fill.
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01-22-2018, 09:22 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahoneys
The freezing point of LP is -45 degrees F.
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I think you meant boiling point or vaporization point. LP is still liquid at -45F, but it will not change to a gas at that point or lower. Propane freeze point is -306F.
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01-22-2018, 09:25 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags999
I agree that you would think Cali would be a very tough state to do much in, but when I worked at a camp ground in Cali in 2013 they didn't even require being certified to pump propane. Almost every other state I have worked in does...go figure..
To the person switching tanks out at the Box Stores or other places, know your paying about twice as much for propane doing that. First they charge more, second they don't fill the tank, instead of 80% which is standard, they only fill about 60 -65%... Much cheaper to fill a tank from bulk. My 20 lb tanks are about $7.50 to fill my 30 lber is about $11 . Much less than the $18 0r $19 they charge to swap out tanks, plus, I keep my tank which Is in much better condition. With a swaped out tank you have no clue as to the abuse or misuse the tank had withstood...
Happy Camping
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Yeah, one does have to pay for the convenience. I only fill from bulk myself. And tank date certification may be in question with one of those swap places. Would not be the ideal thing to swap a tank that has a lengthy certification date for one that expires in a month.
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