The Elkhart Workers

[Crossingover]

A view from those who labor behind the RV industry's boom times:

Where factory jobs are plentiful, Trump's supporters want better

[ttavasc]

Interesting read for sure. Thanks for posting. I surf the Reuters news feed regularly but hadn't seen this one.

[DanNJanice]

Wow! 100% turnover rate! No wonder so many of the problems with these trailers just seem to happen over and over.

[javamon]

"Nearly all of them pay by piece rate — something most other industries have abandoned. Workers receive a low base, about $10 an hour, and earn bonuses for hitting production targets. At assembly plants that make the most expensive or in-demand models, workers can earn more than $60,000 a year when operations are humming."

Sounds to me like this industry in on-track for a head-on collision with the Fed (pardon the puns).

[kayakterp]

I must say that I am dis-heartened after reading this article.
When I was looking at RV's at my local dealer I was told, "75% of the workforce at Jayco is Amish, and the lowest man on the totum poll has 15 years experience."
When I went to the RV show in Dayton OH recently I asked another Rep about this statistic and he told me "yes, that's right".
So far I have been pretty happy with my RV as most of my "issues" that I have found on the trailer have been fixed at where I bought the TT which is only 5 minutes from my home. But I've been reading a lot on this forum and starting to wonder if I am in the minority?

[Witt74]

Originally Posted by javamon

"Nearly all of them pay by piece rate — something most other industries have abandoned. Workers receive a low base, about $10 an hour, and earn bonuses for hitting production targets. At assembly plants that make the most expensive or in-demand models, workers can earn more than $60,000 a year when operations are humming."

Sounds to me like this industry in on-track for a head-on collision with the Fed (pardon the puns).

Add in the 100% turn over rate, unable to keep a trained work force, no wonder the industry has all these quality problems. Profits above everything else, don't worry how the work affects the employees, someone will come along to take their place. A case of don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon.

[Bucko06]

I am interested in your opinion: do you think an Rv manufacturer could build an affordable vehicle for the masses if they switched to a lower turnover compensation scheme and business culture.

[repacs0103]

Originally Posted by kayakterp

But I've been reading a lot on this forum and starting to wonder if I am in the minority?

I don't think you are. I've had little to no problems with mine or my previous Keystone. Remember, this is an Internet forum, and people come to forums primarily when they have a problem.

Originally Posted by javamon

Sounds to me like this industry in on-track for a head-on collision with the Fed (pardon the puns).

Not sure what you mean- what would piece work pay have to do with the federal government?


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[B5 GTX]

I would say the price would be higher, but the quality would also be higher and they should save on warranty repairs. The added benefit is they would most certainly gain market share. Although no matter how you slice it, it will be physical labor.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Bucko06

I am interested in your opinion: do you think an Rv manufacturer could build an affordable vehicle for the masses if they switched to a lower turnover compensation scheme and business culture.

Not sure I understand - maybe I'm being too literal.

Yes, I think RV manufacturers could, and already do, build an affordable vehicle for the masses. Guess it depends on your definition of affordable.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by B5 GTX

I would say the price would be higher, but the quality would also be higher and they should save on warranty repairs. The added benefit is they would most certainly gain market share. Although no matter how you slice it, it will be physical labor.

Although I've only had an RV for three years, this industry strikes me the same as the Big 3 Auto Makers in the 70's.

Feed 'em what ever they'll buy.


The only thing, IMHO, that forced GM, Chrysler and Ford to focus on quality was *competition*.

[jay67]

Originally Posted by pconroy

Although I've only had an RV for three years, this industry strikes me the same as the Big 3 Auto Makers in the 70's.

Feed 'em what ever they'll buy.


The only thing, IMHO, that forced GM, Chrysler and Ford to focus on quality was *competition*.

Agree, in the early part of the century you had a bunch of independent car companies, Hudson, Studebaker, Packard,and Willys to name a few.Competition was fierce and American car quality was very good. In the 50's most of the independent car companies were forced out of business and quality went out the window. The came the Japanese,and the big three had to shape up. RV industry used to consist of many small RV makers,quality was good. Now with all the buyouts and stuff there are only a few left and quality has fallen.

[John1928]

Originally Posted by B5 GTX

I would say the price would be higher, but the quality would also be higher and they should save on warranty repairs. The added benefit is they would most certainly gain market share. Although no matter how you slice it, it will be physical labor.

High price + high quality does not drive market share dominance. It may build a superior product but generally for a much smaller number of consumers (look on your local roads and count BMW/Lexus/Mercedes vs Chevy/Honda/Toyota)

Low price + high quality could drive market share but the former significantly outweighs the latter in most cases when consumers are voting with their wallets....

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by kayakterp

I must say that I am dis-heartened after reading this article.
When I was looking at RV's at my local dealer I was told, "75% of the workforce at Jayco is Amish, and the lowest man on the totum poll has 15 years experience."
When I went to the RV show in Dayton OH recently I asked another Rep about this statistic and he told me "yes, that's right".
So far I have been pretty happy with my RV as most of my "issues" that I have found on the trailer have been fixed at where I bought the TT which is only 5 minutes from my home. But I've been reading a lot on this forum and starting to wonder if I am in the minority?

If you check out our "Initial quality poll" and "Quality after two years poll" I think you will find you are not in the minority.

[Crabman]

Seems to me they need to get rid of the piece rate where you go home after meeting a production quota, pay a decent hourly wage, and reward the crews that meet quality goals and/or have the fewest warranty claims. They would produce a better product, have happier customers, save money on warranty claims and have happy workers with an incentive to build a better RV. But Im dreaming with this suggestion

[wags999]

Originally Posted by Crabman

Seems to me they need to get rid of the piece rate where you go home after meeting a production quota, pay a decent hourly wage, and reward the crews that meet quality goals and/or have the fewest warranty claims. They would produce a better product, have happier customers, save money on warranty claims and have happy workers with an incentive to build a better RV. But Im dreaming with this suggestion

That's what they do but will incentives for units produced. And I don't believe 100% turn over, perhaps of entry level personal and almost everyone I spoke with at the factories have been there for years. And talking to a few suppliers I know in Elkhart they say the same thing. There are not a lot of good paying jobs outside of the RV/Mobile home industry. Some may leave one company and go to another, that would still count as a turn over, even though they may have years of experience. I see about 4,000 rvs come through the campgrounds I work at and I speak with the majority of those people. The vast majority are happy with their units and have few complaints.

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by Crabman

Seems to me they need to get rid of the piece rate where you go home after meeting a production quota, pay a decent hourly wage, and reward the crews that meet quality goals and/or have the fewest warranty claims. They would produce a better product, have happier customers, save money on warranty claims and have happy workers with an incentive to build a better RV. But Im dreaming with this suggestion

This is one program that Thor has that I would like to see moved to Jayco. Thor does incent it's workers on warranty return rates. It is part of a larger compensation incentive package, but at least quality makes up a component of it.

I find this article a bit of a confusing read. The workers want better jobs than they have now in the RV industry. But the industry booms because they are pumping out crap that meets the lowest common denominator. My trailer weighs almost the same as my SUV. If it cost the same per pound, I'm not sure I would be in a TT. How many here would pay $35k+ for a well built and engineered small RV (5000 lbs)? And yet we are happy to pay that for a truck that is about the same weight and complexity. I think that better union jobs might lead to better quality, but much more expensive RV's. Volume would drop and jobs would decrease, but those jobs left would pay better.

None of this is necessarily a bad thing, but all around everyone needs to be careful what they wish for, and be aware of the consequences. Any thing is possible, but for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Crabman

They would produce a better product, have happier customers, save money on warranty claims and have happy workers with an incentive to build a better RV. But Im dreaming with this suggestion

I don't think you're dreaming. Quite a few companies are wrapping their heads around "Happy Workers makes for good profits."

Granted they're still in the minority but growing. As a baby boomer, it's - um - "interesting" to see the Gen X, Y, Millennial work ethics. Those kids have different expectations from their bosses.

[BigJohnD]

When we owned our 2007 Mobile Scout, that company (Then), was building them with workers paid by the hour, not piece rate. And, it showed. It was a slower pace. I have yet to own another rig with the quality my Mobile Scout fifth wheel had. Of course, over time things changed, quality declined, and with that company getting sold to Winnebago, things went to crap in a hurry. Leland is no more, rigs built like a tank is no more. Can you find a fifth wheel with a 16" box tubed frame now? Nope. My 2007 had one. Now a days, it's just take what you can get, or afford.

One thing I had always wished for the guys and gals building the rigs, is that they could afford one. Most can't due to the low wages. Make an incentive program where they can own one of these rigs and enjoy life, like we all do. Might make a difference.

[BuddyRay]

Originally Posted by jay67

In the 50's most of the independent car companies were forced out of business and quality went out the window. The came the Japanese,and the big three had to shape up. RV industry used to consist of many small RV makers,quality was good. Now with all the buyouts and stuff there are only a few left and quality has fallen.

So - if we follow this logic the next step for the RV industry is that a foreign company will begin to build a better quality, more innovative product and change the industry. I just hope that perhaps its an American entrepreneur that drives the innovation. Perhaps we should take up a collection to buy Elon an RV - get him interested in and frustrated with the industry.

I've actually been expecting major innovation to break out in the RV industry for some time and still expect it any day.

There has to be a better way to build an RV than the stick approach and sooner or later some company will develop it - especially while the industry is HOT.
Molded skins are a start. But what's required is some really out of the box thinking and innovation. For example, high speed large scale 3D printing of entire wall assemblies around components like windows and wiring harnesses. Not possible with today's technology you say? Yea, and I didn't think a private company would ever put satellites in space at a fraction of NASA's cost either.

Of course the point of such massive re-design of RV's would be to make it possible to do the assembly with robotics - and there go the jobs we started out talking about.