Thermal Package Failed Me?

[Trippy1313]

Originally Posted by DUX4LIFE

I guess I should have asked if there was much insulation In there.

Much insulation? I'm gonna say, no. Not much at all.

[garywilson]

You didn't say, but when you set the thermostat, set it on fan (not auto) so the warm air will recirculate constantly.
Always a good idea to leave cabinet doors open a little that contain water lines.

[DUX4LIFE]

Thanks for the info. I plan on dropping the underpinning and adding some more insulation after doing any final wiring or mods. May even run a duct to the bedroom for heat as mine doesn't have anything to warm the bedroom.

[Carlsongr]

Had similar although little colder. Removed would panel covering the pump under the sink and no more frozen water. Was out three more days in snow and cold no more problems. Put some Ac foam wrap around these pipes when got home, as they are very close to outside wall and floor.

[Flyingaggie]

Originally Posted by DUX4LIFE

Thanks for the info. I plan on dropping the underpinning and adding some more insulation after doing any final wiring or mods. May even run a duct to the bedroom for heat as mine doesn't have anything to warm the bedroom.

If you're going to be dropping the bottom cover, you might look at buying some EasyHeat Heat Trace Cable (https://amzn.to/2U5CtBl) and don't forget the plug end (https://amzn.to/2U6mZx2). Make sure it's silver metal cable outside and not the black rubber coated kind.

I've used this on my current 34.5BHTS and my previous trailer. Over the past 13 years or so, we've used it for our ski trips to Colorado and Utah. In Colorado, we had instances of a week straight of -40s (F) and highs of negative single digits (F) without ever having a line freeze. This was without any underpinning on either trailer.

With the above linked cable, it self-regulates along the whole length of the cable. It can be wrapped over itself without it burning or shorting out. It just can't be wet. I use it along all my enclosed belly water lines as well as wrap figure 8's around my tank valves. Yes, it requires 120V and I don't run a generator on the road. Even after 16 hour drives, I've never had a line be frozen, or if it was, by the time I got in to use the water, it had already thawed by the heat cable.

The PEX lines are very durable. I've always been more concerned about the connectors if something froze. I had one instance, unrelated to the cable, that the above floor lines froze (we ran out of propane while I was away for 4 days). All my below floor lines remained unfrozen as they were protected by the trace cable. Even after the above floor stuff thawed, there wasn't a single leak in the trailer. I was surprised, especially since every faucet had been frozen solid and they were all plastic.

With regard to running the trace cable, where I have cold and hot running together, I run a single cable that I run between the cold and hot line. With a single line, obviously, just trace the single line. I then wrap those water lines with normal foam pipe insulation. On 2" or 3" lines, you have to wrap spirals around the lines and use the yellow home type insulation (they make some for pipes).

The amount of amp draw all depends on the lengths of the runs you have make. However, in my 34.5 I max pull about 7 amps at startup. Most of the time it hovers about 5 amps. Far from even and A/C running. So, it's easy to add to a 50 amps system. On my previous 30 amp trailer, I ran a separate 20a rated inlet to the trailer and ran 20a rated extension cord to the 20a plug on the pedestal.

Anyway, good luck with your work. I never like surprises and don't trust manufacturer's claims on temps, so I always run my own protection. Like anything, YMMV, but this has been unbelievable great for me.

Tim

[Skip76]

Well, we went to see the daughter and took “The Beast” to a campground with full hookups. While relatively new, and following the standard fixes for poor production, we had to spend 2 unexpected nights in low 20s (it was Mississippi, mea culpa). Turned the tank heaters on, opened the cabinets that had access to water pipes and the water heater, ran the coach heater at ~68 degrees and augmented with a Gas Buddy while awake and a small ceramic heater when we went to bed, and let the spicots drip, and had no problems. Since then, we have gotten an electric heated external water line. While we don’t have a cold weather package and the temperatures were above freezing during the day, we were pleased.

[LegalBeagle]

We, too, enjoy winter camping--also in Colorado. We have a 2019 Greyhawk Prestige 30XP, and are told by the dealer that it is an "all weather" rig--whatever that means. We take the usual precations of turning on the tank heaters and using a heated water hose. I've also placed a small ceramic heater in the water bay. So far we have been lucky, but we've not yet experienced the really cold temperatures (below 20*). Are there any other suggestions for garding against frozen pipes that we need to worry about? Also, how do we determine how well our rig is insulated? I'm not particularly adept mechanically and doubt I would be able to tell. Is this something we could trust the dealers service department to tell us? Lastly, if the insulation is not adequate, is this something the service department can fix without the cost being exorbitant? It seems like the spray insulation used in home construction could be applied over the bottom of the rig, but I'm sure there are reasons that's not practical.

[wducat]

I run motorhomes, but a trick I use is to mount a 110v basement light (with cage) in the compartment I am trying to heat, and put in a 100W Rough Service Incandescent bulb in that, and hook it up to a thermostatic switch designed to turn on in the high 30's and back off in the high 40's. It will then cycle to keep that compartment warm. Not ideal for tight areas as you want to give the bulb some room as it gets hot. Also, if you rely on stand alone electric heaters to save propane, any ducting to the basement or other areas does not work. I run external propane tanks to avoid needing to move the MH in those cases. You don't have that issue in a TT. I spent a winter on Maryland with that setup with routine temps in the teens in a 2001 National Sea View, with no issues.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by wducat

I run motorhomes, but a trick I use is to mount a 110v basement light (with cage) in the compartment I am trying to heat, and put in a 100W Rough Service Incandescent bulb in that, and hook it up to a thermostatic switch designed to turn on in the high 30's and back off in the high 40's.

You can do the same with a personal heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lasko-My...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

[DUX4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Flyingaggie

If you're going to be dropping the bottom cover, you might look at buying some EasyHeat Heat Trace Cable (https://amzn.to/2U5CtBl) and don't forget the plug end (https://amzn.to/2U6mZx2). Make sure it's silver metal cable outside and not the black rubber coated kind.

I've used this on my current 34.5BHTS and my previous trailer. Over the past 13 years or so, we've used it for our ski trips to Colorado and Utah. In Colorado, we had instances of a week straight of -40s (F) and highs of negative single digits (F) without ever having a line freeze. This was without any underpinning on either trailer.

With the above linked cable, it self-regulates along the whole length of the cable. It can be wrapped over itself without it burning or shorting out. It just can't be wet. I use it along all my enclosed belly water lines as well as wrap figure 8's around my tank valves. Yes, it requires 120V and I don't run a generator on the road. Even after 16 hour drives, I've never had a line be frozen, or if it was, by the time I got in to use the water, it had already thawed by the heat cable.

The PEX lines are very durable. I've always been more concerned about the connectors if something froze. I had one instance, unrelated to the cable, that the above floor lines froze (we ran out of propane while I was away for 4 days). All my below floor lines remained unfrozen as they were protected by the trace cable. Even after the above floor stuff thawed, there wasn't a single leak in the trailer. I was surprised, especially since every faucet had been frozen solid and they were all plastic.

With regard to running the trace cable, where I have cold and hot running together, I run a single cable that I run between the cold and hot line. With a single line, obviously, just trace the single line. I then wrap those water lines with normal foam pipe insulation. On 2" or 3" lines, you have to wrap spirals around the lines and use the yellow home type insulation (they make some for pipes).

The amount of amp draw all depends on the lengths of the runs you have make. However, in my 34.5 I max pull about 7 amps at startup. Most of the time it hovers about 5 amps. Far from even and A/C running. So, it's easy to add to a 50 amps system. On my previous 30 amp trailer, I ran a separate 20a rated inlet to the trailer and ran 20a rated extension cord to the 20a plug on the pedestal.

Anyway, good luck with your work. I never like surprises and don't trust manufacturer's claims on temps, so I always run my own protection. Like anything, YMMV, but this has been unbelievable great for me.

Tim

Great information. I plan to add a of 2"-3" diameter hole with a vent louver to get airflow under the cabinets. I will use a small computer fan in one end to get the air moving. I can start in the kitchen cabinet end near the door and follow through to the bathroom. Then under the shower platform which is about 5" high from inside the bathroom to under the bunks and back into the living room. I will probably run a flex duct over the furnace rather than just a hole in the bulk head so as to not create any kind of suction around the furnace.

[saunterr44]

but where do you put it ?

[Trippy1313]

Originally Posted by garywilson

You didn't say, but when you set the thermostat, set it on fan (not auto) so the warm air will recirculate constantly.
Always a good idea to leave cabinet doors open a little that contain water lines.

Okay, that's a good tip, I definitely had it set to Auto. If having the fan set to on the whole time help, I'd be willing to give that a shot.

[Trippy1313]

Thanks Flyin! That's a great help/guide. Especially knowing that you were in some seriously sever cold.

[mercman]

I purchased a 2018 Jayflight 264BHW with the Baja package with the thermal feature. I'm living in it continuously while I'm building a home in the Colorado mountains near Pine. I'm dry camping at the moment with a connected 500 gallon propane tank and a WEN 3.8KW generator. The temps here in the mountains have been subzero for several days at times. I did speak with an agent at the Camping World where I purchased the TT and he stated that the 'thermal package' is passive and not actively heated.

I have had a well drilled and plan on bringing water out to the TT while I build. I will be installing an insulated skirt around the base of the TT and will use a heating system to keep freezing to a minimum.

I've already noticed that having the cabinet doors closed leads to condensation and freezing. I think that a combination of using heat tape and ambient heating will allow me to use the TT in whatever subzero weather I will in encounter.

My well is in but I don't have a line to my TT and will be filling the tank with an external hose.

[Screwby]

Originally Posted by mercman

I purchased a 2018 Jayflight 264BHW with the Baja package with the thermal feature. I'm living in it continuously while I'm building a home in the Colorado mountains near Pine. I'm dry camping at the moment with a connected 500 gallon propane tank and a WEN 3.8KW generator. The temps here in the mountains have been subzero for several days at times. I did speak with an agent at the Camping World where I purchased the TT and he stated that the 'thermal package' is passive and not actively heated.

I have had a well drilled and plan on bringing water out to the TT while I build. I will be installing an insulated skirt around the base of the TT and will use a heating system to keep freezing to a minimum.

I've already noticed that having the cabinet doors closed leads to condensation and freezing. I think that a combination of using heat tape and ambient heating will allow me to use the TT in whatever subzero weather I will in encounter.

My well is in but I don't have a line to my TT and will be filling the tank with an external hose.

Skirting makes a huge difference. I ended up using 1/2” foam board I cut to fit and gorilla taped along the entire perimeter of the camper. I cut small flap doors where the dump valves were so I could open them and still access to dump tanks. I also made a flap I could open to access the underneath and stick a small heater if needed and I even stored some things under there like a “basement” since it was now protected from the weather. We were ok down to -20 F wind chill weather. It also made the floor much warmer too as the wind wasn’t blowing under the camper anymore pulling heat out. The only issue I ran into was when the ground heaved and dropped in weather fluctuations the foam board would bow and sometimes needed adjusted or repaired (something to keep in mind). I just couldn’t justify spending a ton on a an expensive custom skirt when I could make my own with some work and ingenuity. Good luck and stay safe out there!

[mercman]

Originally Posted by Screwby

Skirting makes a huge difference. I ended up using 1/2” foam board I cut to fit and gorilla taped along the entire perimeter of the camper. I cut small flap doors where the dump valves were so I could open them and still access to dump tanks. I also made a flap I could open to access the underneath and stick a small heater if needed and I even stored some things under there like a “basement” since it was now protected from the weather. We were ok down to -20 F wind chill weather. It also made the floor much warmer too as the wind wasn’t blowing under the camper anymore pulling heat out. The only issue I ran into was when the ground heaved and dropped in weather fluctuations the foam board would bow and sometimes needed adjusted or repaired (something to keep in mind). I just couldn’t justify spending a ton on a an expensive custom skirt when I could make my own with some work and ingenuity. Good luck and stay safe out there!

Yes, I priced a 'custom made' skirt. $2200!?!?!? I have a huge amount of plywood that was left in the barn that I'm remodelling so I'm going to use that and some solid styrofoam insulation. Total cost to me should be a couple hundred $$. And, yes, I'll include some custom features like storage and a dog palace.

[Spower]

My new 2020 that is on order says it has:
Climate shield zero degree tested weather protection:
fully enclosed and heated underbelly (ducted)
35,000 btu furnace
double layer fiberglass batt insulation in ceiling and floor
double sided radiant barrier insulation (roof, floor, cap, and slide room floors)

So do you all think I'm good for camping in some cold weather??

[Trippy1313]

Originally Posted by Spower

My new 2020 that is on order says it has:
Climate shield zero degree tested weather protection:
fully enclosed and heated underbelly (ducted)
35,000 btu furnace
double layer fiberglass batt insulation in ceiling and floor
double sided radiant barrier insulation (roof, floor, cap, and slide room floors)

So do you all think I'm good for camping in some cold weather??

Sounds better than what mine has, or at least the description is more detailed... what model are you getting?

[Spower]

Originally Posted by Trippy1313

Sounds better than what mine has, or at least the description is more detailed... what model are you getting?

Eagle HT 274CKDS

[Lowblues]

Coming late to this but better late than never. Like to know how this turned out. I also had this happen to me this winter. Woke up to no water flow from the pump. 2016 317 RLOK. Figured out that the fresh water drain line froze and the ice ran up all the way to the Tee from fresh water tank. Three min of hot air from the wife's blow-dryer fixed it. Should not have happened. Jayco has the fresh water tap under the fresh water tank, which is crammed against the bottom cover, which is where the water line is running. Stupid design. They call this four season ready! Want to do the same up grades that you referred to.