To upgrade trailers or not?

[eodcoduto]

We have had our x23B Hybrid for a year now and there are a ton of pluses for it, but after this last four day trip the sleeping comfort level is horrible. We have added a memory foam top to the mattress but it doesn't do much. So after looking around we found a Jayco Jayflight 33RBTS.

Now this is a huge jump from a hybrid and the pluses are huge but going big has some drawbacks. Here is our list:

X23B pros:
Light, the Tundra pulls it like a champ.
Always able to find a campsite.
We have equity in it.
We only camp 1-3 weekends a month so its easy to get out.
Still has a warranty.
Cons:
You get wet when it rains.
After 4 days it gets small, we have a 4 year old daughter.
Sleeping is horrible.
We will outgrow it when friends or family want to come along.

33rbts pros:
It is huge!
Better build quality.
We can grow into it instead of out of it.
The wife likes it better.
We could live in it when I retire from the Corps for a few months.
Cons:
It will max out the Tundra.
Campsites are harder to find.
Storage is an issue.
Driving around D.C will be harder.
Going that big means you are really in deep.

What are your opinions? We are just talking now so I don't know where this will lead but I always value information!

[stateboy]

Are you set on that design? We wanted something similar as well (with three kids under 10) but thought it would be too much for a 1/2 ton truck (I was avoiding a 3/4 ton purchase to save money). I owned neither truck or trailer at the time. I was in a pop-up and minivan set up. I bought the truck first (some will disagree) to keep me from trying to buy the moon when I went trailer shopping.

I Googled quad bunk trailers and found a layout we both really liked (X254). It was two years old at a dealer a 140 miles away but new (2016 leftover I bought in 2018). It came with the Jayco two year warranty. It has four beds (two bunks) in the front with a king slideout over the rear bumper. It's a hard shell all the way around. I wanted to be done with the tent ends so I avoided the hybrids even though they had quite an appeal to us. My X254 is comfortably under 28', light to tow, beds are beds and tables stay tables and it has all the amenities you're looking at except the larger footprint and weight. And if needed, I can make the table a bed for visitors.

If you go with the 33rbts, good for you. It's what we wanted to go with coming out of a pop-up (and still like it a lot). Lots of room and a great upgrade from the X23B you currently have. IMHO, you just may need to shop for a bigger TV to pull it.

[eodcoduto]

We aren't dead set on that design but it checks all the boxes for us, but as we found when shopping for the Hybrid, we started in one direction and ended up in another. We definitely want slide outs to have some walking room when the rain keeps us camper bound on weekends.

[BJR]

We have walked in your shoes and I can tell you it is worth it. We had an X19H that I towed with a pickup and it was fine for a year. We were trapped in the rain, the sleeping was horrible, there was no storage, etc. The setup and breakdown of the hybrid was a pain - everything got stored on the floor in transit then the thing would explode when we got there. Packing up was equally challenging, especially in the rain because the family sits inside while you're trying to fold in bunk ends. I slept on the couch because it was comfortable, but having the couch out meant no passing by in the narrow center aisle. The best thing about the hybrid was taking a nap on a cool afternoon in the tent ends.

We turned around and bought a 287BHSW and we love it. We had to look forward to our reservations for the year and make sure it fit but it worked out. We have room for food AND clothes, we have a place for everyone even in the rain. The shower is top-shelf, and we love it. The beds are made right now for a trip we have coming up this weekend. We can sleep seven comfortably.

Fast forward to today and we bought a 2500 and are seriously considering the 33RBTS. Storage of the utility type stuff is harder than the 287BHSW but you will have room for food, and clothes...and toys and towels and anything else. No more cooler for drinks and getting ice every other day with the outdoor kitchen. We love the kitchen slide and the coffee station. The bunk room is a plus but we don't want our son to camp out in there during the whole trip. The only thing I don't like is the lack of windows on the campfire side.

My only suggestion to you is if you get the 33RBTS you'll be truck shopping shortly thereafter.

Good luck.

[stateboy]

Originally Posted by BJR

We have walked in your shoes and I can tell you it is worth it. We had an X19H that I towed with a pickup and it was fine for a year. We were trapped in the rain, the sleeping was horrible, there was no storage, etc. The setup and breakdown of the hybrid was a pain - everything got stored on the floor in transit then the thing would explode when we got there. Packing up was equally challenging, especially in the rain because the family sits inside while you're trying to fold in bunk ends. I slept on the couch because it was comfortable, but having the couch out meant no passing by in the narrow center aisle. The best thing about the hybrid was taking a nap on a cool afternoon in the tent ends.



We turned around and bought a 287BHSW and we love it. We had to look forward to our reservations for the year and make sure it fit but it worked out. We have room for food AND clothes, we have a place for everyone even in the rain. The shower is top-shelf, and we love it. The beds are made right now for a trip we have coming up this weekend. We can sleep seven comfortably.



Fast forward to today and we bought a 2500 and are seriously considering the 33RBTS. Storage of the utility type stuff is harder than the 287BHSW but you will have room for food, and clothes...and toys and towels and anything else. No more cooler for drinks and getting ice every other day with the outdoor kitchen. We love the kitchen slide and the coffee station. The bunk room is a plus but we don't want our son to camp out in there during the whole trip. The only thing I don't like is the lack of windows on the campfire side.



My only suggestion to you is if you get the 33RBTS you'll be truck shopping shortly thereafter.



Good luck.

Great comparisons! I think you said what I was trying to say without owning or having a comparable unit.

[jbrnigan]

Over the past 30 years: Slide in truck camper.....26' travel trailer....30' 5th wheel....33' 5th wheel....30' class A coach..... and now 29RKS. Over the years our wants and needs changed, daughter brought friends (but grew up and moved away), longer 5th wheel limited some campground availability, coach combined truck and trailer, and now as empty nesters, the 29RKS and F-250 fits our RV life style perfectly. My point: you will likely change RV's over the years, for a lot of reasons......deal with your "con" list today, as they don't go away and could result in buyers remorse.

[DocBrown]

Our X20E is the smaller version of the X23B so we have a lot of similarities. We've had 4 adults in it for a long 4 night wet weekend. A little cramped but not bad. Makes me wonder why you feel cramped in a bigger trailer than we have with only a small child. Everyone is different.

Put friends and family in a tent! We have had our daughter and SIL with us, but if it's more than a couple of nights, they need to make other accommodations, tent or a cabin in same CG. Only once due to our daughter's tent failing that we had them in for the 4 nights mentioned above.

We're getting older, in our mid-50s. This is our second hybrid, we've had two since 2003. The foam mattress is no longer all that comfortable. Like you we tried a foam topper, not so good. Now we have a regular padded mattress topper. Very nice now! We also lay down an old sleeping bag as a pad.

If you look at hard sided trailers, look at the mattresses. We have seen very few that didn't have rock hard mattresses. We will probably not get a hybrid for our next trailer. but I anticipate having to replace whatever mattress comes with almost immediately.

Why do you get wet when it rains? In 16 years of owing hybrids, we have never gotten wet. Do you have leaks in or around the tenting?

As said above, no matter what you do you will have cons. There is always compromise unless you can have a trailer built to your exact specifications. And who could afford that?

Also you don't mention if the X23B is paid for or you are making payments. You could end up taking a bath on that and be upside down on the new trailer.

What ever you do don't get too worked up over it. This is supposed to be fun!

[Jagiven]

I cannot tell you if you should or should not change models. It is such a personal thing. What we really like is its size, and ease of setting up. To use it is Glamping, and we can live with just about anything for a short time.

We have one kid too, now 15 and taller than 6'. Our 23B works for us, he brings friends, sometimes they tent, sometimes they all sleep in the back bunk, sometimes the friend takes the j-sofa. I know the cushion in the beds are not as good as when we bought ours (ours our thicker and made of two different foams). We have made a number small of changes, to make it fit our needs.

During rains storms, we have probably had over 12 people socializing in ours at a time. A little cozy, but doable, some of the kids (4-6) migrate to the back bunk. Seating has been supplemented with a few lawn chairs, has not been an issue.

We spend a LOT of our time outside. When in the TT, he spends a lot of time in his back bunk reading and the like. We do not keep the table in the traditional location. We turn it 90 degrees, and have it across the J-Sofa, and often part of the dinette area in-front of the water heater cabinet. It adds a lot of room and easier access to our front bunk. And works as an additional counter when prepping a meal.

Not sure what you mean you get wet when it rains. We have never gotten wet while sleeping, are you talking about setting-up/tearing down, or while sleeping? If sleeping, and you have a bit of condensation, leave the bathroom vent open an inch (we added a vent cover), and have at least one side window open an a few inches. We bring the zippers up to the highest corner, then open each a few inches, to create a protected gap, to allow the moisture a path to escape.

It can be a hard decision to upgrade or not. We are already thinking about our next trailer for when our son moves on, and our needs change.

[jpgale]

I have the 32BHDS which is similar to the 33RBTS (which is an awesome floorplan), I went with the 32BHDS for a couple of reasons, first and foremost was the outside access to the bathroom so little kids don't have to track mud into the trailer to use the toilet. Second its GVWR is under 10k which means in California I do not need a non commerical class A unlike the 33RBTS. These should also be considerations. With either trailer the Tundra will be maxed out, I had a 2008 Tundra double cab some years ago, awesome truck plenty of power but the hitch weight will be too much for it. I have a 2003 F250 now it handles the hitch weight much better and even then I am technically overloaded on the GVWR of the truck. If you buy the bigger trailer get a 3/4 ton to tow it.

[eodcoduto]

The 33rbts that we were looking at is over the weight of the Tundra, it had the 2nd A/C and all the other features so it is out of the running. We haven't run out of room technically, but I can see us doing it soon especially when I retire and we are closer to family next year.
As for leaking, the sides of our pop outs don't quite reach the velcro on the bottom, only by about 1/4" but it is enough that water has gotten in. I need to take it to the dealer and see what they say but there never seems to be enough time.

[DocBrown]

That definitely seems strange. There should be a skirt that hangs over the edge of the beds.

Not sure how well you can see it here.

[Scott_Trailer_Newbe]

The 33RBTS will defiantly be too much for a Tundra, by quite a bit. Nice trailer, but you will want a newer 3/4 ton, and I would make is a diesel as well.

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

That definitely seems strange. There should be a skirt that hangs over the edge of the beds.

Not sure how well you can see it here.

X2, what year 23B do you have? The newer HTTs have the sidewall panels integrated into the panel. Only Velcro is in the corners where you can reach in to help pull up the support frame, and across the hinge.

It should be fairly weather tight.

[Ohiofinlander]

The 33RBTS looks like a great layout. Just last fall we upgraded from a 2017 x23B to our current 2019 Whitehawk 28RL. Best thing we ever did. Our 20 year old likes it so much that he wants one for himself. Love it when these young folks want to carry on the camping/RVing tradition!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by eodcoduto

The 33rbts that we were looking at is over the weight of the Tundra, it had the 2nd A/C and all the other features so it is out of the running.......

I tend to agree that a moderately loaded 33RBTS (10,950lbs GVWR) may not be good match for a 1/2 ton Tundra.

Just a thought.....; Take your Tundra under loaded conditions (full fuel, passengers, and cargo) to a CAT scale and weigh it ($9 & 3 minutes). Subtract the CAT weight from your Tundra's specified GVWR...., the delta is your actual "remaining" payload capacity you have available to support a TT's "loaded" tongue weight and WDH weight.

Knowing your TV's actual "available" payload capacity is great data to know when shopping for an ideal TT match.

Hypothetical 33RBTS moderately loaded: (9,000lb UVW = average Yellow Sticker UVW) + (50lbs Dealer- battery, etc.) + (700lbs Cargo, no fluids) = 9,750lbs Gross Weight.

Typical 33RBTS loaded tongue weight @ 9,750lbs Gross: 1,268lbs - 1,463lbs (13% - 15% recommended).

Average WDH weight: 50lbs

Bob

[eodcoduto]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

X2, what year 23B do you have? The newer HTTs have the sidewall panels integrated into the panel. Only Velcro is in the corners where you can reach in to help pull up the support frame, and across the hinge.

It should be fairly weather tight.

The gap is where the skirt meets the shell of the camper, there is velcro running on the bottom of the bed and the side of the tent that doesn't quite line up. I'll try to get pictures of it this week.

[eodcoduto]

Our Tundra has an advertised towing capacity of 9900lbs, with the driver and tank of gas, and a 980lb max hitch weight. The 33rbts we are looking at has a 9208lb weight as it sits on the lot, we carry 320lbs of gear in the camper per our last trip. This is close to maxed out so we are still weighing the benefits. Another vehicle isn't in the cards for now but if it was we would go with a gas 8.1 Chevy or V10 Ford/Dodge 3/4 or 1 ton, for the amount we drive to camp (100 miles max each way) a diesel isn't the better option financially. We also have a 32tsbh, 32bhds, and the comparable Forest River models on our list. I appreciate all of the info and no one has posted any smart-a replies!

[jpgale]

I love my 32bhds, but all of the models you list are in the 3/4 ton area, for example here is a post on another thread here that shows the actual weights of my rig. https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...tml#post744479

There are bunkhouse floorplans that are a little smaller but will still represent a lot more space such as the JayFlight 28BHS or JayFeather 27BH.

[eodcoduto]

Originally Posted by jpgale

I love my 32bhds, but all of the models you list are in the 3/4 ton area, for example here is a post on another thread here that shows the actual weights of my rig. https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...tml#post744479

There are bunkhouse floorplans that are a little smaller but will still represent a lot more space such as the JayFlight 28BHS or JayFeather 27BH.

Those numbers are nice to see in real life. I agree we are pushing it with the Tundra, time to pare down the list.

[CampNow]

Originally Posted by eodcoduto

Our Tundra has an advertised towing capacity of 9900lbs, with the driver and tank of gas, and a 980lb max hitch weight. The 33rbts we are looking at has a 9208lb weight as it sits on the lot, we carry 320lbs of gear in the camper per our last trip. This is close to maxed out so we are still weighing the benefits. Another vehicle isn't in the cards for now but if it was we would go with a gas 8.1 Chevy or V10 Ford/Dodge 3/4 or 1 ton, for the amount we drive to camp (100 miles max each way) a diesel isn't the better option financially. We also have a 32tsbh, 32bhds, and the comparable Forest River models on our list. I appreciate all of the info and no one has posted any smart-a replies!

Originally Posted by eodcoduto

Those numbers are nice to see in real life. I agree we are pushing it with the Tundra, time to pare down the list.

IMO, you'll be beyond pushing it towing a 33RBTS with your Tundra.

Tow capacity is not the issue with your Tundra, it's the payload. You have NO idea what the 33RBTS's tongue weight is going to be before you load it up for a trip. Folks will chime in with numbers, but depending on how you load it, it will vary---even from trip-to-trip. It is a very dynamic number. In any case, highly likely it's going to be over 1,000 lbs.---more likely it's going to be closer to 1,300 lbs.---clearly 3/4-ton territory. I've owned and towed with two Tundras with the 381 HP 5.7. With a passenger, minimal gear in the truck, and only 1,000 lbs. of tongue weight we were at max payload, max GVWR, max RAWR, and the max rating of the receiver. This was with two TT's. One weighed 7,000 lbs., the other 8,000 lbs. Again, payload (i.e., tongue weight) is the issue, not trailer weight. We got tired of living on the edge and purchased a 1-ton diesel.

Yes, the Tundra felt "fine" towing the above load. However, CAT scale numbers tell you the real stress on your truck---not your butt, or your hands on your steering wheel.

Keep in mind the OEM empty tongue weight spec is a low number (typically based on an EMPTY trailer with NO options). It's primary purpose is to sell trailers.

Lastly, our last TT was a Jayco 306RKDS which empty, weighed less than the 33RBTS (using Jayco specs). Realworld, loaded, tongue weight on our 306RKDS was approx. 1,400 lbs.---approx. 300 lbs. higher than the Jayco empty tongue weight spec.

Be safe!